Athiesm Vs Religion... let battle commence

**Pete Hanlin** · 10-31-2005, 05:24 PM

BTW, I'm not sure I would fit in with the intelligent design or evolution crowd. I like to think I'm a fairly scientific fellow (I read and enjoy Scientific American, which should indicate I'm at least interested in things of a scientific nature), but I don't view the origin of the universe as a subject where science is likely to provide many answers.

Strictly speaking, science involves subjects that are observable and/or repeatable. The creation of the universe is neither. By faith (i.e., without any physical evidence) I believe the universe was created by God- how He did it is both beyond my comprehension- and, to be honest- my interest or curiosity. The same thing applies to the development of life. Given the genre of literature into which Genesis falls, the "six days" could be a symbol of six eras- or it could be six literal days. The important thing to me is that we are here because God caused us to be here- how that happened is immaterial (it surely could have been in six days, who knows?).

I really don't mind if my children are taught evolutionary theory in school. Evolution is the most plausible way mankind has come up with to explain his own existence apart from creation. From a scientific point of view, you can neither prove nor disprove it (thus, it is a theory). It seems to me intelligent design is a theory as well- and just as plausible as evolution. I can understand why some would balk at having it inserted into curriculum, however. (Popular Science publishes the "10 worst jobs in Science") every year- this year, "science teacher in Kansas" made the list due to the "horror" of having to include intelligent design... I think this is a bit melodramatic, but its a typical political statement from PS).

At the risk of seeming ignorant, I simply don't much care how I came to be- I'm more concerned with why I came to be. If you don't grasp the why, it seems to me the "how" is rather trivial.

...the faith "seems" like foolishness to the natural man.
Yeah, I didn't want to offend anyone by calling them a "natural man" sans the context in which Paul was speaking. It seems a bit condescending to state that God is only knowable to those whom He makes Himself known (with the implication that God has made Himself known to me, but not to someone else). That's one of the more troubling things about being a Calvinist, btw (predetermination, foreknowledge, and selection).

Pete, great post, but I think you surpassed the 500 word limit. Its easier for the rest of us to keep it under the limit.
Please accept my apologies (as an excuse, I'd note I haven't posted in quite a while and was on my lunch break). If you think THIS post was long, you really need to do a search on posts by someone named Darris in years gone by...
:)

PS- I'm not sure Darwin addressed the beginning of single cell life- I think he simply laid out how the species came to be. Either way, the fellow certainly had an imagination!

**Lynne** · 10-31-2005, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by drk

a)

a) for me too. Forget who said it, but Religion is man searching for God, Christianity is God reaching down to man.

**Jacqui** · 10-31-2005, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Chairtime

Just so we all know who is who, please respond using letter only.

a) I believe in God and Satan but worship God and reject Satan.
b) I believe in God and Satan but worship Satan and reject God.
c) I believe in God and Satan but worship neither.
d) I believe in and worship only God.
e) I believe in and worship only Satan.
f) I don't believe in or worship God or Satan.
g) I don't know what to believe.

I don't know what letter to put down.

I'm Pagan. I believe in and worship the Goddess, I don't believe in Satan.

**Chairtime** · 10-31-2005, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Jacqui

I don't know what letter to put down. I'm Pagan. I believe in and worship the Goddess, I don't believe in Satan.

Well if you don't believe in or worship God or Satan then your letter is f). But personally, I think you are worshipping Satan, whether you realize it or not. Pagans are into extreme feminism, orgies, nudity, self power. All things Satan wants you to live for.

**JRS** · 10-31-2005, 11:41 PM

Where did you get that information on Pagans, Chairtime... the movies? Pagans and the poorly understood realm of wicca are not always intertwined in the way you wrote.

For as it harm none do what you will.

Blessed Be.

**Jacqui** · 11-01-2005, 08:28 AM

I don't know where Chairtime got his information either, it's nothing like my religion practices.

**drk** · 11-01-2005, 08:58 AM

Jacqui:

I mean this with all due respect, but you have to hear the truth. There is only one God, the Hebrew/Christian God. You are either worshipping a figment of your imagination/lifeless idol (hopefully) or Satan/his demons have disguised themselves as your "Goddess". There are no other alternatives.

If your "Goddess" has real power that you have experienced, it's Satanic. Get out of there, quickly. Satan is the "father of all lies" and he will deceive you, in order to keep you from Christ Jesus. His goal is to take you to hell.

Look at your adversary:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan

**Chairtime** · 11-01-2005, 09:07 AM

I don't want to offend you either Jacqui. But I have read books on Paganism. These are things Pagans do. YOU might not partake in any of it. But it's there. One example, the fact you worship a Goddess (feminine). Satan likes to turn everything upside down.

**Chairtime** · 11-01-2005, 09:52 AM

"Pagan does not define me, I define Pagan."

"Also offers free spells and several collections of illustrated self-empowerment spells for retail purchase."

According to pagan sexual morality, sex gives human beings access to God, and for this reason the more intense, unrestrained and overwhelming sexual experience becomes, the more intensely spiritual and moral it becomes as well. On this Moore says, "The whole pleasant work of sex is to incarnate, to call down the spirit that will quicken our physical world and give home to eros." He goes on to explain that "lovemaking is a ritual that invites the Goddess of sex to be present."

-from www.mind-n-magick.com

**Pete Hanlin** · 11-01-2005, 10:34 AM

Without trying to defend someone else's beliefs (which is a task surely better handled by the believer), I would point out that the word pagan has a lot of different meanings (that is, from the very beginning of the term).

If I recollect correctly from my History of Christianity class in college (which was quite a while back now), I believe "pagan" was a sort of insult Christians used to toss at Romans who hadn't adopted Christianity. Funny thing, you see- Christians were persecuted in Roman society, until the Roman emporer Constantine converted to Christianity. Of course, as soon as they became the state religion, Christians seemed to rather immediately transform from the persecuted to the persecutor! Anyway, "pagan" was akin to derisively calling someone a "religious quack."

By the time the word evolved into an actual religion of its own (there are many pagan religions), you had groups like the Druids. The Druids, like most pagan groups, do not worship Satan. Instead, it would perhaps be most accurate to say they worship nature- the cycles, birth and death, and yeah- sexual relations (which, to me, is the most marketable part of the belief system ;^).

Anyway, I don't know if that describes the paganism that is adhered to by any of the other posters in this thread- just wanted to clarify one definition of paganism.

**Spexvet** · 11-01-2005, 12:05 PM