Is the private ownership of a gun wrong?

[spartus]

Oh yes, guns are the best thing to use in a pressurized cabin. Life isn't TV--you're not going to heroically shoot the Terra Ists dead and then win the girl while dramatic music swells.

I realize some of you don't get out of Dogpatch much, but a great swath of the country is civilized--we have indoor plumbing and everything. The need to have a gun--particularly a handgun--in day-to-day life is not really pressing. I truly am sorry if you feel so afraid of people that you need to carry one around.

[rinselberg]

Oh yes, guns are the best thing to use in a pressurized cabin.

There is only one known instance in which a bullet hole in an aircraft frame yanked objects across the plane, expanded, and sucked a person out into the sky. That was the James Bond movie Goldfinger. The movie was not intended to teach real-life lessons about physics.

credit: http://www.hi.lp.org/GunsOnAirlines.htm

There is a sizable discussion of the physics of firearms discharge in pressurized airliner cabins on the Web page (above).


Actor Gert Fröbe is the only person ever known to have exited an airplane fuselage with "unseemly haste", due to explosive cabin decompression after a firearm discharge. Credit: http://www.jamesbond.com

I would summarize it by saying that having a bullet impact the airline fuselage from the inside could pose some tactical problems for the passengers and flight crew, but it would not be instantly catastrophic, in the way that it was portrayed in the James Bond movie: There would be some time for the passengers and flight crew to react to the gradual loss of cabin pressure.

I offer this only as a technical sidebar to the discussion: I'm not trying to move the direction of this thread in any particular direction here.

PS. There is more discussion on the topic of firearms and airliners at this Web page:
http://www.gunowners.org/fs0104.htm



OptiBoard member rinselberg describes how he's carved his own personalized cyberspace on the Web under the mock umbrella tradename rinselberg™.
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...&postcount=217

[For-Life]

I would place a bet that Mr Smith and Mr Wesson could overcome a box cutter 100% of the time.

could they overcome a Mr. Smith or Mr. Wesson?

[hcjilson]

To the best of my knowledge the terrorists (9/11) referred to earlier in this thread, were armed with boxcutters.I suppose we could play "what if?" all day long and not solve anything.Whatever floats your boat I say. if you want to carry,go ahead and carry. If you don't want to carry, don't. Its not a character defect in either case, and no one needs to be put down for their opinion.

The answer to the question posed in this thread is that circumstances dictate the ownership of firearms, and the determining factor is the individual, not society.Who among us would live in the Alaskan bush without a firearm? One the other hand, how many people have you ever seen armed at a Vision Expo?

It is interesting to note that the private ownership of firearms is one of the first things to be outlawed in a dictatorship. As Roy so eloquently pointed out, he who has the firearms, rules.

[For-Life]

To the best of my knowledge the terrorists (9/11) referred to earlier in this thread, were armed with boxcutters.I suppose we could play "what if?" all day long and not solve anything.Whatever floats your boat I say. if you want to carry,go ahead and carry. If you don't want to carry, don't. Its not a character defect in either case, and no one needs to be put down for their opinion.

The answer to the question posed in this thread is that circumstances dictate the ownership of firearms, and the determining factor is the individual, not society.Who among us would live in the Alaskan bush without a firearm? One the other hand, how many people have you ever seen armed at a Vision Expo?

It is interesting to note that the private ownership of firearms is one of the first things to be outlawed in a dictatorship. As Roy so eloquently pointed out, he who has the firearms, rules.

It is not as much about firearms as it is about hand guns used for protection.

I would also like to mention that there are a lot of democratic nations out there with firearm laws.

[Jim Schafer]

My son and I went to a range a few weeks ago in St Petersburg. It was my first time at a range. I was surprised at not at how many people were there but at how many young women and pre teen children were there. These were not your rural Florida good old boy and gal types, these were the same folks seen at high end malls and living in the gated communities. They are properly trained and disciplined, no goofing around. They were all business...and great shots!
All I could think was I would love to see the face on some thug who wanted to car jack or home invade one of these women.
This range had assault rifles along with machine guns that are available for use on a special range.
For me it was fun trying out different hand guns.
If anything, since guns are legal, I think each owner should have to go through proper training.

[Roy R. Ferguson]

Hi Guys:



The issue of Machine Guns is always an emotional topic that seems to evoke the extremes of both sides. In my case, I do own several submachine guns that at one time I routinely used to destroy cans in the back yard and chop up mud banks on a friends farm. All involved had a good time. The only problem was feeding the blasted things. Their appetite could eat a hole in your wallet in short order. My solution was to have BYOB (bring your own bullets) parties. That helped.



Now the value of these guns have appreciated to this point I’m a bit reluctant to load them up and take them out for an afternoon of fun. Two are selling for $16,000+ and one that I bought for $550.00 is valued at over $14,000. One of the cheap ones I bought for no other reason than to burn up 9mm ammo is now rapidly passing $4,500. The strange thing is that according to all my sources, values are going up!


Roy

[Spexvet]

Try this one:

[spartus]

It is interesting to note that the private ownership of firearms is one of the first things to be outlawed in a dictatorship.

Along with your freedom of speech, right to assemble, right to a speedy trial, protection from unreasonable searches (and the presumption of privacy that goes along with it). Book-burni--er, banning is popular too. :D

Don't get me wrong--it certainly sounds good, claiming that private citizens owning guns is the only thing keeping the government in check, provided you ignore the fact that there are quite a few countries where private ownership of firearms is significantly more controlled than here, yet they somehow manage to not fall into totalitarian hands. And, conversely, there are a number of countries where there are basically no controls on firearms whatsoever, and horrible people manage to seize power and, hey, become dictators!

[chip anderson]

And then there are countries in Scandinavia that require gun ownership and proficiency of use. With no crime at all.

[For-Life]

And then there are countries in Scandinavia that require gun ownership and proficiency of use. With no crime at all.

again look at Canada. We have very, very few gun crimes

[chm2023]

And then there are countries in Scandinavia that require gun ownership and proficiency of use. With no crime at all.

Seriously, where do you get these ideas?

[spartus]

Someone should tell him Rammstein AFB doesn't count as a "Scandinavian country".

[rbaker]

Here are some stats.

http://www.unicri.it/wwk/publication..._OWNERSHIP.pdf

[QDO1]

Here are some stats.

http://www.unicri.it/wwk/publication..._OWNERSHIP.pdf

That is an excelent report

here is the conclusion:

Conclusions:

The present study, based on a sample of eighteen countries, confirms theresults of previous work based on the 14 countries surveyed during the first International Crime Survey Substantial correlations were found between gun ownership and gun-related as well as total suicide and homicide rates. Widespread gun ownership has not been found to reduce the likelihood of fatal events committed with other means. Thus, people do not turn to knives and otherpotentially lethal instruments less often when more guns are available, but more guns usually means more victims of suicide and homicide.

[Chairtime]

Does anyone here routinely carry a gun? I tried selling Amway a few years ago and the guy that sponsored me always carried a gun with him. And he was always showing me the latest issue of "Guns 'N Ammo." After a while I was afraid to quit his downline.

[QDO1]

Hi Guys:



The issue of Machine Guns is always an emotional topic that seems to evoke the extremes of both sides. In my case, I do own several submachine guns that at one time I routinely used to destroy cans in the back yard and chop up mud banks on a friends farm. All involved had a good time. The only problem was feeding the blasted things. Their appetite could eat a hole in your wallet in short order. My solution was to have BYOB (bring your own bullets) parties. That helped.

that is as baffling as it is numbing. It would freak me out to know my neibour had such a thing. do you have to have special training to own such a weapon?

[Roy R. Ferguson]

Hi All:

In the United States short barreled rifles, automatic weapons, suppressors, etc. may be legally owned after undergoing a background check by the FBI, paying a $200.00 tax and having local law enforcement sign off on the transfer. This has been the law since the 1930’s. In the following 75 or so years approximately one crime has been recorded nationwide by an individual using a legal Class III weapon. My neighbors have little to fear.

In the military the first thing I was taught was that if you wanted to make noise, fire your weapon on fully automatic. If you wanted to hit a target, fire it on semi-automatic. In combat, I learned that this was very true.

If you think a fully automatic weapon is somehow more deadly than its semi-automatic cousin, you have been watching too many movies. I have several friends on various police departments who enjoy firing my submachine guns and all agree that the noise is great but a shotgun is better for close range and a semi-auto rifle is better for longer work.

Roy

[rinselberg]

I don't know about that Roy. It seems to me that if all a thoroughly deranged somebody wants to do is to walk into the nearest McDonalds and kill as many people at close range as possible, a fully-automatic weapon would be just the thing ...

[QDO1]

so apart from affording it, there are no real bars to owning such weapons?

[rinselberg]

so apart from affording it, there are no real bars to owning such weapons?

Well ...

In the United States short barreled rifles, automatic weapons, suppressors, etc. may be legally owned after undergoing a background check by the FBI, paying a $200.00 tax and having local law enforcement sign off on the transfer.

... aren't those some bars?

[rbaker]

Chairtime wants to know:

“Does anyone here routinely carry a gun?.”


Although licensed to carry a concealed handgun I do not carry it all the time. In fact, I haven’t carried it in over a month.

I use an evil “socio/economic profiling” strategy. I am not armed at the Country Club, however you can bet your Nike Retro Dub Zero’s that I am carrying anytime business or pleasure finds me prowling around the ghetto late at night. For example, I will not be armed at Midnight Mass this Christmas and I will not carry a handgun into a Church or Synagogue until a group of crazed Quakers start flying aircraft into tall buildings. I do, however, permanently keep a handgun in my vehicle and if I find myself driving in an area of the “village” where all of the “children” are wearing “colors” you can be sure that my car gun will be on my lap.

[finklstiltskin]

Just for the hell of it, I figured I'd inform the Optiboard community of my recent (today) purchase:

Taurus Millenium Pro PT145
.45 calibre
10+1 magazine
Many, many safety features

I love it so far.



Fink