Another informal policy request

[For-Life]

People come here looking for PAL advice and then we get one poster say Shamir Genesis, one say Varilux Panamic, and one say Gradal Top. Then the poster phones the stores in his or her community and looks for the stores that only carry the lens we convinced them to wear.

Well is that really in the best interest of the consumer? For instance, we convince the consumer to get the Genesis instead of the Gradal Top. So that consumer leaves the store with a top level optician, customer service, and education. Now they go find a store that cannot fit a lens to save their lives, but they carry the Genesis.

I think we should try to be more vague with our options and try to get the consumer to go to the better store.

[OptiJim]

I think we should try to be more vague with our options and try to get the consumer to go to the better store.

How do you determine in a forum which is the "better store"?

[QDO1]

I agree. There is nothing that would infuriate me more as a dispenser, than a miss-guided client insisting on z lens at y mm etc. Furthermore this isn't the best way forward for the patient, who by rights ought to have a "proper dispensing" with a qualified professional, who would eveluate and assess the needs, and then present some options, grounded in the facts before them

Here is a thought.. perhaps the patient forgot to mention they have a need for a saftey material, in the quest for the thinnest material

The better store is the one that offeres the best service. Unfortunatally for the patient, this is quite a hard one to differentiate

Stores could be measured on ...

price
how it educates the patient
quality of service
speed of service
knowlege of staff
product range
quality of enfironment
quality of finished product
etc.

The "better store" might not score well on all of these points, so in essense the better store would vary from patient to patient, depending on thier needs and pre-concieved ideas on service levels

[Chris Ryser]

I think we should try to be more vague with our options and try to get the consumer to go to the better store.

Actually we do not know, which is the better store, convincing the consumer on a certain brand of lenses, is also a personal opinion of members on this forum.

In my opinion, postings under some fictious nickname do not have full value, because the poster is hiding behind his nickname. By doing so a poster is not responsible for any off key arguments made.

Being more vague with opinions is a good idea.............but will most probably not work............beacause personal opinions by forum members are driven by many motives.

[rsandr]

I agree. There is nothing that would infuriate me more as a dispenser, than a miss-guided client insisting on z lens at y mm etc. Furthermore this isn't the best way forward for the patient, who by rights ought to have a "proper dispensing" with a qualified professional, who would eveluate and assess the needs, and then present some options, grounded in the facts before them

Couldn't agree more,

I think Optiboard should remain as its title suggests.

[drk]

I totally agree with this, in theory.

Even in optometric/medical/optical literature, when a solution to a problem is recommended, it is usually as generic as possible (e.g. "silicone hydrogel contact lens", "fourth generation fluoroquinolone", "high index lens").

The point is that the highest level of indisputable differentiation is used to describe the product. Whether one clinician or another finds "brand X" or "brand Y" in that group preferable, until there is yet another generally accepted significant sub-differentiation within that group (e.g. surface-treated silicone hydrogel vs. non-surface treated), the prudent clinician will refer to the group as a whole and avoid singling out their "favorite" brand, in the spirit of objectivity, and, as For-Life says, practicality.

I think what happens on the board is that we try to answer in good faith what we think works best.

Let's face it: progressive designs are a giant "black box". We don't have a way to classify the designs, analyze the designs, compare the designs, etc. We can't be very generalized because of this.

Yes, we have "symmetric, asymmetric, spherical, aspheric, short corridor, fourth generation, fifth generation, individualized" ad nauseum. But the fact is that we have little/no conceptual framework, let alone equipment, to evaluate progressive lens design and it's performance.

What we are left with is marketing claims and anecdotal evidence. Ultimately, this leads a dispenser to find their "favorite" or "favorites" and stick to what they've had experience with. Other dispensers take a "they're all good" approach, which is reactionary towards the other side of the spectrum.

What we really need is a method, information, and a non-interested party. It all boils down to research money, and, let's face it, ophthalmic lenses are treated a lot more like consumer goods than medical products.

We may try to be scientific, but we have one hand tied behind our backs.

[Jubilee]

Actually we do not know, which is the better store, convincing the consumer on a certain brand of lenses, is also a personal opinion of members on this forum.

In my opinion, postings under some fictous nickname do not have full value, because the poster is hiding behind his nickname. By doing so a poster is not responsible for any off key arguments made.

Being more vague with opinions is a good idea.............but will most probably not work............beacause personal opinions by forum members are driven by many motives.

Some people post under ficticious nicknames for other reasons. Perhaps their employers would frown upon some of the discussion here, or their group may feel it is unethical to discuss certain situations/patients/political topics that get brought up.

Cassandra

[QDO1]

What we really need is a method, information, and a non-interested party.

That is where the work by Dr Sheedy comes in - his evaluations of progressives are very fact based, impartial and useful

[For-Life]

How do you determine in a forum which is the "better store"?

We do not tell them. Unfortunately they have to come up with that on their own. We could give them some suggestions like better service.

The main thing though is we are having them look at one brand, so they are focusing on the brand instead of looking for the best store. If you find a good optician whatever that optician puts the patient into should be the right choice. It is a matter of trust.

That is where the work by Dr Sheedy comes in - his evaluations of progressives are very fact based, impartial and useful

Even so, how much does that really mean though. The perfectly fit Super Noline will out perform an improperly fit Panamic any day of the week.



What we should do is make the choices more broader. For instance, premium PALs: Panamic, Sola One, Gradal Top, ect. Premium AR: Alize, Carat Advantage, Teflon, ect.

Additionally, if someone comes in here saying that their optician is suggesting the VIP, we shouldn't say, nah we suggest the Panamic.

[QDO1]

Even so, how much does that really mean though. The perfectly fit Super Noline will out perform an improperly fit Panamic any day of the week

I absoloutley agree, and thats why I always advise peoiple to find a qualified professional as the very first hting they should do to get the best dispensing.

When I made the comment about the work by Dr Sheedy, I was working on the assumption that we are all seasoned optical professionals, who are capable of fitting a pair of progressives accuratally, and have the optical breadth in knowlege to understand his results

This brings us neatly back to the "which to the better store?" question

[Jason Carruthers]

I really don't see the harm in recommending a progressive brand. The skill of the dispenser in the physical world has no bearing on the advice of us digital experts.

[QDO1]

I really don't see the harm in recommending a progressive brand. The skill of the dispenser in the physical world has no bearing on the advice of us digital experts.

Hell, I will write some software to do it.. It could ask you 20 lifestyle questions, and recommend a Fusio Panamic Alize every time. If I only took a 10% cut in the cost price for the lenses... I would be rich in weeks

Tounge in cheek

[For-Life]

I really don't see the harm in recommending a progressive brand. The skill of the dispenser in the physical world has no bearing on the advice of us digital experts.

I guess you have not read some of the consumer threads where they desperately need to find a store that sells this particular lens.