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Thread: BC CE Oct 16, 2005

  1. #1
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    BC CE Oct 16, 2005

    Hi again-

    As promised, here is the final draft of the letter to the COBC....

    Thanks to all for the input.

    Egbert




    October 27, 2005




    To The College of Opticians of British Columbia





    To Whom it May Concern :



    I attended the Annual General Meeting of the College of Opticians of BC at the Best Western Hotel in Richmond on October 16, 2005 and was disappointed by a few items I’d like to share with you here. Though I recognize that the featured speaker, Dr. Mo Jalie, is an eminently respected member of the optical community worldwide and that we were fortunate to have had him there to speak to us, I found the topics chosen to be lacking for our CE seminars. As all members in attendance were professional opticians, each of us had already studied in detail both the lens materials available to us and the qualities of progressive lenses.( I would hope that no optician could even REACH licensed status in British Columbia without a clear understanding of both of these subjects.) In any event, progressive lenses have played a large part in our CE at least twice in recent years. I feel Dr. Jalie’s time and expertise could have been put to much better use at our seminars had he spoken more on topics such as new lens products, safety standards, problem-solving, or even obscure/under-used products that he might share with us.



    I also noticed that the terminology Dr. Jalie used was frustrating for many in attendance, e.g., "enhanced robustness". I had never heard of that as a term for hardening ( and I am positive that few in his audience had), and had to hear it again before I realized what was meant by it. I mean no disrespect to Dr. Jalie, but feel that simpler language would have been far more effective in order for him to get his ideas across.



    I would also like to say that issuing CE credits for merely discussing CE credits in our round table discussion did not seem a very productive use of time we could have spent on more useful subjects.





    And lastly, on the subject of sight-testing ( and I bring this up only because it was mentioned as part of the day’s proceedings ), do not let it be said that ALL opticians look forward to their ability to conduct such tests. There are many among us who disagree very strongly with the plan to go forward with sight-testing by opticians. The province’s decisions to abandon coverage of eye exams and to allow sight-testing by opticians do not take the best interests of the public into consideration. No amount of training will allow opticians to offer the public the level of care they receive in an examination by an optometrist or an ophthalmologist. Yet many customers will choose to forego eye examinations when given the option of a free vision screening at their local optical shop, and I believe we are doing them a disservice by offering this option.



    I thank you for your time in reading this letter, and hope that you will take its contents into consideration when planning further continuing education seminars.





    A BC Optician



    PS. As I am sure you will have heard by now, I had posted a thread (as Egbert) on the Optiboard with a less charitable version of this letter in order to obtain feedback from my colleagues before sending the letter on to you. As you can see from subsequent posts to that original thread, I now regret having done so before further consideration, and I apologize for any embarrassment or offense that the original letter may have caused the COBC, any of its members or volunteers, Dr. Jalie, or anyone in the optical profession.
    Last edited by egbert; 10-28-2005 at 12:07 AM. Reason: will be clear by the response it got.

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    Privilidge

    I have had the pleasure of listening to Dr. Jallie at past conferences and found his lectures to be outstanding. A man of his intellect and abilities is a privilidge to listen to from my perspective, and I wish him continued good health and hope I can be in his presence one day soon. My question is, if his lectures were so basic in nature, how then can his language be so beyond the comprehension of the audience?

    On to sight-testing; it has been bantered about here too often, but if you do not want to provide those services, then I hope you do not hold back your profession from wishing to become educated at a higher level and provide advanced services. Please consider supporting the profession as we move forward acorss North America. In this case, Canada is leading the way, and I wish them great success.

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    Whilst I hear what you are saying. Having being educated by Dr Jalie, I find your comments a long way from what I would expect. Mo generally provides a chalenging lecture, and has a reputation to be a walking optics calculator

    On the one hand you critisize him for offering you basic optics, and on the other you say "convex oblate ellipsoidal surface" is incomprehensible. Having being edudated in the UK system, "convex oblate ellipsoidal surface" seems to be plain old English to me. That is the language of what we do on a day to day basis. I imagine from your comments that any subject that Mo would like to lecture on will infuriate you, because he will be able to stretch you well beyond what you allready know

    Most people educated by Mo will all say the same thing - he might be hard work in a lecture, but once you work past that, he is utterly passionate about his subject, and instantaneously knoledgable about all things to do with Ophthalmic lenses. I learnt a lot from him, and would jump at the chance for further education from the man

    I do however follow your point about being awarded CE points for discussing CE points - sounds barmy to me

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    Prof.Mo Jalie,his real name is Mohammed Jalel is head of optics at City & Islington college in London.He has authored many text books in optics that are used today in training ABDO dispensing DL students.

    I am confused as to how come you find his lecture so basic:hammer:

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    I heard he has moved on to Ireland, since i was educated by him in London, and his text book sits next to my lens catalougues.. closest I get to a bible

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    As per posting below
    Last edited by Graduate; 10-17-2005 at 02:23 PM. Reason: double posting

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    Quote Originally Posted by QDO1
    I heard he has moved on to Ireland, since i was educated by him in London, and his text book sits next to my lens catalougues.. closest I get to a bible
    London is going to miss him very much.His name is going to remain attached to english optics.

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    Egbert again....


    I did not say that I found Dr. Jalie's lecture to be basic. What I did say is that I found it was inappropriate that he spoke on such basic topics to people who have already studied lens materials and progressive lens design in order to obtain their licenses, and that he used language that was far beyond many in his audience. Like it or not, MANY BC opticians do not have the English skills to follow Dr. Jalie's choice of vocabulary, and I see no reason why he would use a term like "enhanced robustness" when nobody in his audience has ever called such a lens anything but "hardened", "tempered", or "heat-treated";it does these opticians absolutely no service when attending his lectures if he an optical whiz if he can't get his ideas across to them.

    As for the person who suggests I support members of my profession who are doing sight-testing, I can only say I do not support anything that will jeopardize the health of British Columbians, especially when it is being done merely to save the government money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egbert
    As for the person who suggests I support members of my profession who are doing sight-testing, I can only say I do not support anything that will jeopardize the health of British Columbians, especially when it is being done merely to save the government money.
    The opticians who are doing remote refraction (sight testing), are not masquerading as OD's. There are guidelines to follow when performing a refraction, i.e. criteria the client needs to meet for an optician to dispense the results from a refraction. A refraction, it the most basic sense, has nothing to do with health of the eye. If you feel opticians who sight test are jeopardizing the health of the public, then surely you must be against opticians who assess a clients eye health in order to dispense contact lenses, much more can go awry.
    "It's not impossible. I used to bull's-eye womp rats in my T-16 back home."


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    Hello Jedi-


    I UNDERSTAND that most opticians who are doing sight-testing will do so with the best interests of their clients at heart. I KNOW for a fact, however, that some small few will do so with dollar signs in their eyes and expect that they will be weeded out eventually. I HOPE that any sight-testers will have the common sense to refer any problems they find on to an optometrist or an ophthalmologist, but I FEAR that some of the clients will not find the concerns of an optician/sight-tester important enough to spend money on an eye exam if they didn't find it important enough to see a doctor in the first place.
    As for the issue of contact lenses, I have no problem whatsoever with clients being taken care of by registered contact lens fitters, but ONLY once they have been assessed by an optometrist or an ophthalmologist and deemed a suitable candidate for contact lens wear. ( This would include a complete eye exam and health check by the optometrist or ophthalmologist at whatever interval their doctor finds appropriate for that patient.)

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    Response to egbert, posted October 17, 2005:

    egbert, you have got to be kidding, right?



    Before I begin, I need to premise my comments. My name is Ian MacIvor, I am a licensed optician and licensed contact lens practitioner in the province of Alberta, Canada. I am also the Program Head of the Optical Sciences department at the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology (NAIT). I want to thank Nick Atkinson (Registrar) and David Martens (Chairman) of the College of Opticians of British Columbia (COBC) for inviting myself and others to attend the cited offering as a volunteer for the seminar (I was there too). I thank all the board of the COBC for their impressive efforts- British Columbia has become a leader in North America for the advancement of the profession of opticianry.



    Allow me to explain to you (egbert) some of the folly of your opinion (even though it is your opinion) and help you understand part of a larger picture, and that you may become a more productive member of your College. I’ll walk you through this item by item from the top, using the first person in all my references.



    To start I cannot fathom your thought process (or lack of) for cc-ing the two major newspapers for Vancouver (by extension, the whole province, and now, the world) as well as the Minister of Health for the Province of British Columbia. You have to presume they will care a whit about your rant (here it is called venting, but your diatribe was not venting, it was a rant…) but I doubt so.



    I cannot speak for the College staff that hosted the conference, but I doubt Dr. Jalie ‘chose’ his topics. I believe Dr. Jalie probably gave a list of the many subjects he could speak on, and the College chose the ones you received. Anyway, I fail to see how lectures on ophthalmic optics are in any way inappropriate for opticians. Yes, every member in attendance was a qualified, certified, registered, licensed (by the provincial legislature) individual. As you must surely know the whole point of ‘professional development’ (a term I personally prefer to ‘continuing education’, but that is my concern) is exactly that- development of the skills you currently have, as well as those you want. Many of the members who were at the seminar took their schooling more than a few years ago, and found the refresher enlightening.



    To a specific point you made about the (perceived) pointlessness of a topic- such as the inflammability of lens materials- I take the opposite view: I myself did not know the combustion point of a CR-39 lens, but I thought it was fascinating that ophthalmic research has actually looked at this standard. To the point, I too was mystified why a manufacturer would need to determine the flash-point (via laser) of a given lens material until I used some critical thinking and realized that this particular lecture point was a small part of the explanation of ISO standardization as it relates to ophthalmic lens materials.



    Even if we exclude the ISO standards portion, the session was about lens materials, so why not include data on such? Let me be crystal clear on a point though: I am not defending or rationalizing the seminars hosted. I was an enthusiastic and active volunteer (who attended out of my own willingness) a seminar that was no charge (oh, did someone not mention that?).



    I won’t waste our time on responding to your third paragraph (vis-à-vis the language incomprehensibility) as others have already addressed your obvious contradiction in thought; to wit, if the lecture were so basic, how could you find it incomprehensible? Moreover, your reference to the members who use English as a second language is racist. I am ashamed for you. If Dr. Jalie (a world reknown speaker) was unclear, I have to ask: At what point did you attempt to ask for clarification?



    Your fourth paragraph indicates you wished to received (by example) information on new lens materials such as Trivex and Dr. Jalie did exactly that- as part of a bigger picture: new lens materials (vs. existing materials); please employ critical thinking skills…



    Your single sentence fifth paragraph needs some work.

    For those not able to attend, you should know the afternoon seminar was spent in round table discussions debating (in small groups of about 15 people per) a range of pro’s and con’s of how to award continuing education/ professional development credits for seminars hosted by agencies such as manufacturers, suppliers, soft skill facilitators, an association, etc. This was an open forum, and as such, you had more than ample opportunity to address your grievance. The whole point of that session was for you, the member, to tell your regulatory body what you want, how to do it, and why that should be. I cannot think of a better method for feedback, yet, you post your views on-line and disparage the College anyway. I think someone has an axe to grind.



    On the subject of sight testing (here we go again), I say to you: grow up. First, no-one is forcing you to become a sight testing optician. It is not a part of mandatory curriculum provided by any of the educational institutes in your province. Refraction theory and procedures are offered to existing licensed opticians who wish to further their knowledge. No-one has said you must go off and become a sight testing optician, just as no-one said you must become a contact lens practitioner. The entry level to this industry is as a dispensing (spectacle) optician, period. Those who have the thirst for more knowledge, or can foresee a business opportunity, will take the necessary steps to enhance the number of tools at their disposal to do so. In simple terms, no-one is forcing you to become a sight testing optician- In Alberta (by example) only 20% (at most) of the membership have a license in the advanced practice of contact lens dispensing; Those who are more highly educated command a higher salary (usually over $20,000 per year difference). I know of opticians who have taken the advanced training and NOT gone on to licensure- they simply wanted the education; they wanted to become a better, more effective optician by expanding their knowledge base. Further, by extension of your comment and the above stated numbers, when (not if, but when) opticians are licensed to refract, it is likely only a minority of opticians will chose to do so.



    There is simply no data to support your claim that opticians performing sight tests/ simple refractions endanger the general population. Multiple policy papers support this- contact your College or association for more information. Also, considering your provincial government does not pay for refractions done for those between ages 18 and 65, I fail to see how your statement has any credibility in paragraph six: “The health risks posed to the public at large far outweigh any financial benefits to the government…”



    It is evident to me that you should not have sent a letter to the government or the press considering how poorly thought out your opinion is (granted, it is your opinion). Probably the main reason I feel the need to respond vigorously is that you post such inflammatory comments, but anonymously. I have to ask: what repercussions do you expect when stating your opinion in an honest and straightforward manner? In fairness, I can’t help but wonder if you do so only to rile those who care about our profession.



    In the future, I suggest you become active in the direction your profession is going (rather than b*tching about it). Apologies to all those into reading this thread (and now the length of it), but unsubstantiated posts should not be allowed- as a former moderator on Optiboard I would never remove this thread. Instead, I will now use it as an example of the misguided thinking that can permeate the philosophy of the less informed.



    Sincerely,



    Ian MacIvor

    Program Head

    NAIT Optical Sciences

    Edmonton, AB



    PS There were several other comments that I could address specifically, but common sense and virtue prevent me from doing so. Meanwhile, I await your response.

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    Mr McIvor:

    Thank you for your response. I definitely seem to have ruffled some feathers here. Allow me a chance to defend my opinions, if you will be so kind.

    I will also reply item by item, beginning with the fourth paragraph if I may, the first being your introduction, and the next two I will ignore as obvious attempts to anger me by belittling my "thought process ( or lack thereof)" and my inability to grasp "a part of a larger picture" without your assistance. Nice of you though, to admit that I have a right to an opinion. Let me say before I begin that no letters have been sent to anybody as of yet, as you can see in the update applied to this thread earlier today ( hours before I received your response). I wanted feedback to the letter from people who had attended the seminars before writing a final draft. And I've had quite a bit, as you have noted in your reply ( although none as of yet from anybody who said they had attended except for you). I would also like to take this chance to state that I believe Continuing Education to be very important to our profession and welcome the chance to learn more about the optical business. And finally, that a few of the people who replied to the thread were quick to defend Dr. Jalie, though I stated very clearly in the opening that he was a respected member of the optical community and said nothing to contradict that respect at any point in the letter. Nobody can deny his contributions to the world of optics and I was not attempting to disparage him in any way, a fact I should have made more clear from the beginning.

    Whether Dr. Jalie or the college chose the subjects is not at issue. What I found to be unacceptable was the fact that this is at least the third time progressive lenses have been made such a major part of our CE schedule in the 10 years that opticians in British Columbia have been required to be licensed. And yes, I also think that lens materials was a poor choice, being something that all opticians deal with on a day-to-day basis and 99% of us know like the back of our hands. My issue with the topics should have been made more clearly, I admit. But the feedback I'm getting now is the reason I posted this thread in the first place. When we have a chance to hear from someone of Dr. Jalie's reputation, I would have hoped for a topic that had not been "done to death" in previous years, a fact I heard mentioned several times by colleagues at the seminars.

    The topic of the inflammability of lens materials was also something I knew nothing about and found interesting as well, even if not ultimately useful in the workplace seeing that only approved products are available to us. It was merely used as an example. My ideas of which topics are valid are my own opinions, which as you state, I am entitled to. Let me say then, that in my opinion, ISO standards and regulations would have been a much more suitable topic for CE, which brings us to your remarks in paragraph six.

    Nowhere did I state in my so-called "rant" that I was an unwilling participant at CE. On the contrary, I look forward to any new information I can get on the industry. And I fail to see what difference it makes whether I mentioned if I was charged for the seminar or whether it was included in my license renewal fee. Please allow me to set the record straight - the seminar was included in my license renewal fee.

    As to your implication that I am a racist, that is the one personal attack you've made that I will not ignore. And please do not waste your time by being ashamed for me. I am most definitely NOT a racist. nor do I discriminate against people based on gender, sexual preference, age or any other reason, and I find your implication that I do reprehensible and totally uncalled-for. The statement about the terminology used by Dr. Jalie was based on the fact that MANY of the people in attendance at the seminars did not understand great portions of the talks which could have been made much clearer by use of plainer language, whether because the listener's mother-tongue was not English or because they had been in optics for years before licensing and hadn't heard the terms he was using. It was no more intended as a racist remark than when I stated a woman with 25 years experience raised in an English-speaking household in Canada did not understand him was intended as age-discrimination, and I stand by my statement. Finally, I did not say I did not understand Dr. Jalie, I merely said the language was way over the top for many in attendance.

    In paragraph eight, you state my wish to hear more about new products. And I realise that Dr. Jalie did speak about Trivex (although too briefly ), as well as very high index glass lenses, and the higher index plastic lenses. As I said earlier, I would have preferred MORE information on this. Your personal attack on my thinking abilities I will ignore.

    As I will your ninth paragraph.

    In paragraph ten, you discuss the open forum for improving CE. Like every table in the hall, we wrote our ideas down and handed them in. What else can we do? "Seminars hosted by manufacturers, suppliers, etc"., is EXACTLY what CE should be. Again, I am not the only one who found the afternoon's exercises to be a misuse of our CE time.

    OK, on to sight-testing. I'll skip to paragraph twelve of your response as paragraph eleven starts out with yet another personal attack ( this one on my maturity) which I won't reply to, but is inarguably correct other than that.

    As for numbers to support my claim that sight-testing will endanger the general population, you are absolutely correct - I have none. And yet I know as a fact that people will fail to be diagnosed with serious eye disorders as a result of opting for sight-tests rather than proper eye exams. Anybody who does not see this is turning a blind eye ( forgive the pun) to a very important issue. And when you state that the government does not currently pay for eye exams for people between 18 and 65, I find it difficult to believe that any reasonable person would believe that the decision to discontinue coverage of eye exams under our health care plan and the idea to allow sight-testing by opticians coming so close together are a mere coincidence. ( To which you will no doubt cry " conspiracy theory" - go for it, this is only my opinion.)

    My decision to send copies of my letter to the Minister of Health and the press ensures that the issues I am attempting to bring forth for discussion will not be ignored by the College or by the optical community. Nothing more.

    As for the suggestion that I become active in my profession, I am. That is what this thread is all about. And as for the implication that this post is unsubstantiated, your own reply signifies otherwise, as do the replies I have received from the others in this forum. And you've ended your letter with one last attack on my thinking process, which I will once again ignore.

    In closing, I welcome open discussion on this matter from any who care to reply, provided they do not contain personal attacks because you happen to disagree with me.

    Sincerely,

    Egbert

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    egbert

    I find your reasonings and responses so flawed. To keep it short and sweet, would you please answer the folowing

    • Do you agree with CE (or CET as we call it on this side of the pond)?
    • Remembering Mo is primarily known as a lecturer and author on Ophthalmic Optics and lenses, what subject matters would you have prefered Mo to have covered?
    • At what level would you like the subjects chosen to be pitched?
    • Why was Nitrite banned as a frame material?
    As a person who regularlary stood up and chalenged Mo in his lectures, I know he isnt stuck in the past, and furthermore, throuought his carear, has pushed both the boundaries of science, and manufacturing forward with a zeal that is above the very best of us. Many of the inovations you sell today would not be here without his pioneering work over the years. I feel I could still pick up the phone and ping an idea off the man, and feel he would still give me the space to.

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    Hell - I might even phone up Dr Jalie, and invite him to post on the forum, it would certainly add some incredible depth and insight into the issues we discuss

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    Enough said then!

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    Hello, Egbert

    I won't attack you but I'd like to give you my feedback since you asked.
    To improve your letter you should:

    1) Shorten it. I think your points could be made in half the word count.
    2) Sign it. Anonymous letters will not be acted upon by the college.
    3) Don't send to the media. The newspapers will throw your letter away faster than you can say "no story value."
    4) Ask for action. The closest you come to a suggestion is that opticians could use "information on sight-testing, or on newer products such as Trivex or Silicon Hydrogel contact lenses." Be clearer on the action you want taken and the benefit that would go along with it.

    Besides that, arent' you being a bit negative? Your letter sounds to me like a lot of whining and complaining for nothing. If this world renowned expert is so boring/confusing, would you consider giving the lectures yourself? At first the letter sounds like it's written by some whistleblower, but I'm left wondering what you're blowing the whistle at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QDO1
    Hell - I might even phone up Dr Jalie, and invite him to post on the forum, it would certainly add some incredible depth and insight into the issues we discuss
    Now, that would be super...

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    Mr. Egbert,

    I'd just like to point out one flaw in your posts:

    1. First you complain about the content of the CE seminars and the way the topics are chosen.

    2. Then you complain about the excercise on discussing how to improve them.

    3. Then you say, there is absolutely nothing wrong with them. I quote:

    What else can we do? "Seminars hosted by manufacturers, suppliers, etc"., is EXACTLY what CE should be.

    This is a huge contradiction.

    Part of your own answer was within your post. Perhaps if you used the opportunity to improve on the future and offered solutions instead of complaints you wouldn't recieve the amount of criticism you have recieved. Maybe you could have suggested better ways of improving how the topics and lecturers are selected.

    I see nothing wrong with disagreeing with the stuff you did, I just found it ironic that one of the things you chose to complain about is the one thing that may have helped address your complaints in the future.

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    Open mouth, insert foot. :finger:
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    *Dave at OptiVision has a web based tracer integration package that's awesome.

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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian MacIvor
    Response to egbert, posted October 17, 2005:

    egbert, you have got to be kidding, right?



    Before I begin, I need to premise my comments. My name is Ian MacIvor, I am a licensed optician and licensed contact lens practitioner in the province of Alberta, Canada. I am also the Program Head of the Optical Sciences department at the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology (NAIT). I want to thank Nick Atkinson (Registrar) and David Martens (Chairman) of the College of Opticians of British Columbia (COBC) for inviting myself and others to attend the cited offering as a volunteer for the seminar (I was there too). I thank all the board of the COBC for their impressive efforts- British Columbia has become a leader in North America for the advancement of the profession of opticianry.



    Allow me to explain to you (egbert) some of the folly of your opinion (even though it is your opinion) and help you understand part of a larger picture, and that you may become a more productive member of your College. I’ll walk you through this item by item from the top, using the first person in all my references.



    To start I cannot fathom your thought process (or lack of) for cc-ing the two major newspapers for Vancouver (by extension, the whole province, and now, the world) as well as the Minister of Health for the Province of British Columbia. You have to presume they will care a whit about your rant (here it is called venting, but your diatribe was not venting, it was a rant…) but I doubt so.



    I cannot speak for the College staff that hosted the conference, but I doubt Dr. Jalie ‘chose’ his topics. I believe Dr. Jalie probably gave a list of the many subjects he could speak on, and the College chose the ones you received. Anyway, I fail to see how lectures on ophthalmic optics are in any way inappropriate for opticians. Yes, every member in attendance was a qualified, certified, registered, licensed (by the provincial legislature) individual. As you must surely know the whole point of ‘professional development’ (a term I personally prefer to ‘continuing education’, but that is my concern) is exactly that- development of the skills you currently have, as well as those you want. Many of the members who were at the seminar took their schooling more than a few years ago, and found the refresher enlightening.



    To a specific point you made about the (perceived) pointlessness of a topic- such as the inflammability of lens materials- I take the opposite view: I myself did not know the combustion point of a CR-39 lens, but I thought it was fascinating that ophthalmic research has actually looked at this standard. To the point, I too was mystified why a manufacturer would need to determine the flash-point (via laser) of a given lens material until I used some critical thinking and realized that this particular lecture point was a small part of the explanation of ISO standardization as it relates to ophthalmic lens materials.



    Even if we exclude the ISO standards portion, the session was about lens materials, so why not include data on such? Let me be crystal clear on a point though: I am not defending or rationalizing the seminars hosted. I was an enthusiastic and active volunteer (who attended out of my own willingness) a seminar that was no charge (oh, did someone not mention that?).



    I won’t waste our time on responding to your third paragraph (vis-à-vis the language incomprehensibility) as others have already addressed your obvious contradiction in thought; to wit, if the lecture were so basic, how could you find it incomprehensible? Moreover, your reference to the members who use English as a second language is racist. I am ashamed for you. If Dr. Jalie (a world reknown speaker) was unclear, I have to ask: At what point did you attempt to ask for clarification?



    Your fourth paragraph indicates you wished to received (by example) information on new lens materials such as Trivex and Dr. Jalie did exactly that- as part of a bigger picture: new lens materials (vs. existing materials); please employ critical thinking skills…



    Your single sentence fifth paragraph needs some work.

    For those not able to attend, you should know the afternoon seminar was spent in round table discussions debating (in small groups of about 15 people per) a range of pro’s and con’s of how to award continuing education/ professional development credits for seminars hosted by agencies such as manufacturers, suppliers, soft skill facilitators, an association, etc. This was an open forum, and as such, you had more than ample opportunity to address your grievance. The whole point of that session was for you, the member, to tell your regulatory body what you want, how to do it, and why that should be. I cannot think of a better method for feedback, yet, you post your views on-line and disparage the College anyway. I think someone has an axe to grind.



    On the subject of sight testing (here we go again), I say to you: grow up. First, no-one is forcing you to become a sight testing optician. It is not a part of mandatory curriculum provided by any of the educational institutes in your province. Refraction theory and procedures are offered to existing licensed opticians who wish to further their knowledge. No-one has said you must go off and become a sight testing optician, just as no-one said you must become a contact lens practitioner. The entry level to this industry is as a dispensing (spectacle) optician, period. Those who have the thirst for more knowledge, or can foresee a business opportunity, will take the necessary steps to enhance the number of tools at their disposal to do so. In simple terms, no-one is forcing you to become a sight testing optician- In Alberta (by example) only 20% (at most) of the membership have a license in the advanced practice of contact lens dispensing; Those who are more highly educated command a higher salary (usually over $20,000 per year difference). I know of opticians who have taken the advanced training and NOT gone on to licensure- they simply wanted the education; they wanted to become a better, more effective optician by expanding their knowledge base. Further, by extension of your comment and the above stated numbers, when (not if, but when) opticians are licensed to refract, it is likely only a minority of opticians will chose to do so.



    There is simply no data to support your claim that opticians performing sight tests/ simple refractions endanger the general population. Multiple policy papers support this- contact your College or association for more information. Also, considering your provincial government does not pay for refractions done for those between ages 18 and 65, I fail to see how your statement has any credibility in paragraph six: “The health risks posed to the public at large far outweigh any financial benefits to the government…”



    It is evident to me that you should not have sent a letter to the government or the press considering how poorly thought out your opinion is (granted, it is your opinion). Probably the main reason I feel the need to respond vigorously is that you post such inflammatory comments, but anonymously. I have to ask: what repercussions do you expect when stating your opinion in an honest and straightforward manner? In fairness, I can’t help but wonder if you do so only to rile those who care about our profession.



    In the future, I suggest you become active in the direction your profession is going (rather than b*tching about it). Apologies to all those into reading this thread (and now the length of it), but unsubstantiated posts should not be allowed- as a former moderator on Optiboard I would never remove this thread. Instead, I will now use it as an example of the misguided thinking that can permeate the philosophy of the less informed.



    Sincerely,



    Ian MacIvor

    Program Head

    NAIT Optical Sciences

    Edmonton, AB



    PS There were several other comments that I could address specifically, but common sense and virtue prevent me from doing so. Meanwhile, I await your response.
    I am dismayed at the way egbert thread has been responded.


    Egbert was just expressing his opinion on the presentation of Prof (Dr) Mo Jalie, which according to him was basic but presented with difficult to comprehend language that not only him but also his qualified colleagues present there found it difficult to understand the presentation. He rightfully expressed his grievance.


    He drafted sample letter for you all to view so that this can be brought to the attention of COBC. He was expecting helpful comments from members, not needless attacks.


    Here, a reply from registrar or CE officer from the College of Opticians of Bristish Columbia would have been more appropriate than Mr Ian MacIvor.


    I am sure the college would have thanked him for bringing this to their attention and justified the quality of seminar.


    But Mr Ian MacIvor who is from different province of CANADA, who has nothing to do with COBC ruined the thread for reasons best known to him. He misdirected rightful grievance to look magnified insult.


    Mr. Ian MacIvor sounded dictator throughout his reply. May be your position as head of NAIT optical program gives you false aura of being superman optician.


    I agree with egbert refraction in hands of opticians can be risky, be it remote automated one. That is why BC has not yet passed the law.


    Please next time kindly reply in courteous and helpful manner to members of the board. We are mature educated folks on a professional forum that is read throughout the world.


    I apologise if I sounded rude to any one venting my dismay.

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    You will feel a lot better

    Mr. Egbert



    I appreciate that you are asking for feedback on your letter before you send it off. Especially considering you will be sending it to the COBC and sending a copy to The Vancouver Province, The Vancouver Sun, and the Ministry of Health. Opticianary in BC is going through changes and it is important how we portray our profession to the government and media so I would love to help.



    I am not sure if this was your intention but you sounded quite upset, here are some of the words you used in your letter to describe the AGM….



    “inappropriate”, “utterly appalled”, “waste of time”, “repetitive”, “pointless”, “insulting” , “ludicrous”, “incomprehensible”



    Those are strong words and most of them were used to describe the content and delivery of the topics discussed by the guest speaker, Dr. Jalie, I read that you found it to be unacceptable that this was the third time progressive lenses have been made such a major part of our CE schedule…But I don’t understand why you chose to attend since the AGM Flyer stated that Dr. Jalie would indeed speak about progressive lenses. This seminar was not mandatory so if speakers who discuss progressive lenses agitated me so much I myself would not have attended.



    There is a wide range of education levels between registrants so it is very challenging to try to meets the needs of opticians with no formal training, opticians who entered after 1995 with formal training and those with European qualifications. At the end of the day, topics and a speaker were chosen and included in the AGM flyer. I would suggest that since you believe that discussing “optics at its most basic” was as you put it is, “utterly appalling” then I would not have attended if I were you; The discussion topics were listed in the AGM flyer for all to see in advance.

    Also if the language was “nearly incomprehensible” then let the speaker know. You were encouraged to use the microphone to ask the speaker questions, it takes a little bit of courage but no question is a dumb question and it sounds from your letter that many people including the lady sitting next to you would have benefited from your feedback, perhaps Dr. Jalie would realized that he needed to be more mindful of the words he was using.



    It is odd that you attended a forum where the College wants to hear your feed back with microphones and round table discussions but you are compelled to circulate your comments to a larger audience to, as you put it, “ensure that the College heard the complaint.” I am not sure what more you were looking for besides a forum asking for your feedback with microphones and round tables but I have to admit that your decision to copy other organizations just didn’t make sense to me.





    After using the words…

    “inappropriate”, “utterly appalled”, “waste of time”, “repetitive”, “pointless”, “insulting” , “ludicrous”, “incomprehensible”

    …at the end of the letter you state…“I hope that you will take its (the letter’s) contents into consideration when planning further continuing education seminars”.


    I don’t know how the College can take your feedback into consideration but other wise thanks very much, as always its great. I would strongly recommend that you reconsider attending non-mandatory seminars with topics and speakers that upset you. You will feel a lot better.



    Raj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graduate
    Please next time kindly reply in courteous and helpful manner to members of the board. We are mature educated folks on a professional forum that is read throughout the world.
    A nice sentiment, but equally it would have been better to not publish the letter on Optiboard in the first place - for exactly the same reason - it is the premier and most respected world wide optical forum, and is read by many of the influential people in world wide optics.

    Has anyone wondered how Mo Jalie feels right now? I would imagine he will be aware of the posts

    It might be a good policy never to critisize an individual in the forum, as potentially it is someones carear and reputation at stake.

    Perhaps the next 4 speakers lined up to do a CE lecture have read these posts and now think "no way" and pull out

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    Jallie

    Dr. Jallie will not be concerned in the least. He is one of the most respected educators in all of optics worldwide...that is what brought such a negative response.

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    Last edited by Refractingoptician.com; 03-01-2007 at 11:45 PM.

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    Egbert, you seem like you just want some attention; well here it is. I won't waist much time on your ignorant rants but I will say your opinions definitely do not represent the majority of the opticians in our Province so please keep them to yourself and us. Don't try to get a media circus going. :finger:

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