Seeking advice on Progressive RX

[tom moxa]

Not sure what all is important so sorry for the long post.

I have been only wearing glasses for the last 5 years. My first pair was a single vision with AR coating, the second a Varilux Panamic (poly) with AR (Crizal) and my current pair also a Panamic (poly) with NO AR and I have used the same frame for all three lenses.

I purchased the last pair without AR because of the cost ($90) and others I talked to did not seem to notice any glare issues. I however do notice the glare (I feel like am looking
through dirty lenses).

Also with both PAL lenses it is hard to read for any length of time. If feels like the my eyes are not working together. It seems that the position that is in focus for one eye is not for the other but after doing the one eye the other eye thing then it looks clear again with both eyes (notice most if doing much close work) . Also seem to be looking through the
very bottom of the lenses and hate seeing the frames. I mentioned this on my last visit (same optometrist all 5 years) and he said this current pair was stronger so should help.

After getting these lenses ( in Jan) and still having problems, he suggested reading glasses and computer glasses ( I spent most of the day on the computer but get by on the computer because the 19” display is 24” away) .

So with the glare problem I use my glasses only as needed.
My current prescription is:

DV OD +1.00, -0.25, 150 OS +1.25, -0.25, 035
NV OD 1.25 OS 1.25
PD OD 31.5 | 28.0 OS 32.0 | 29.0
My frames have 48 and 21 on the temple and the lenses measure 1 7/8” W x 1 3/8 H

1. Can my reading problem be helped without getting reading glasses? Am I doing something wrong in the eye exam? Would a different PAL help? If any Pal will work the same for my prescription is there a lower cost Pal ( these cost $250 for the lenses without AR). Would it help to get larger lenses (ie different frames)?

2. I plan to get AR on the next set but found the Crizal hard to keep clean. Any suggestions of other AR that are just as glare free but easier to keep clean?

3. I am surprised to find out all of the types of PALs but no info from my optometrist. I asked another optometrist in my small town what he sold but he only answered - " a similar type to my Panamic" but never said what he sold. So do you consider it reasonable to ask:
What lenses do you sell ?
Do you have a licensed Optician ?

Or any suggestions of what to ask/look for in picking a Optometrist/ Optician?
I assume it is best to get my glasses at the same place as the eye exam incase there are any problems so I am asking what they sell and who will fit before getting the eye checkup.

Thanks for your advice
Tom

[For-Life]

1. With progressive lenses any increase in reading or in distance negatively affects the other. The second pair reading is a great idea. Now you said you have a problem, because your computer screen is too far away. I have a solution. A task specific lens like the Shamir Office, Sola Access, Nikon Online ect. will give you several feet in distance. What it does is it splits the lens into reading and distance so that you get a raised level and a much larger and wider reading area.


2. Crizal recently introduced the Crizal Alize to replace the Crizal. Much, much more easier to clean. Clients of mine who have hated cleaning their glasses now find this coating the best thing since sliced bread.

3. Well as I have said in a previous thread, there is not much difference between one premium progressive to another. The Panamic is one of the best. Fitting is more important than the progressive type. I think you should find someone you like and trust and take his or her opinion. If that person is good then he or she will put you into the best lens for you.



Now you do not have to get your glasses by the same place you get your eyes examined. If there is a problem with the prescription most doctors will not charge you to change it and most opticians will not charge you to change your lenses. Go to an optician that will sit down on you and find the best options for you.

[Chris Ryser]

Also with both PAL lenses it is hard to read for any length of time. If feels like the my eyes are not working together. It seems that the position that is in focus for one eye is not for the other but after doing the one eye the other eye thing then it looks clear again with both eyes (notice most if doing much close work) .problem I use my glasses only as needed.

This is a very common occurence with progressive lenses................they have not been properly fitted and are not in the right spot in your frame. They have to be re-done and if properly placed this feeling of "your eyes not propely working together" will disapear.

If you wear a small frame you have just increased the problem by having a very small reading segment.

[tom moxa]

Ok so what questions should I be asking as I tried to find a optician. I know that when I came in the second time with my current lenses they put the dots on the lenses and then check how the lenses lined up. They also tilted them some to help the glare issue but the neither issue was improved.

So can they check the lenses to see if they are made correctly??

Do I ask the places I visit if they have a licensed (or degreed or ???) Optician ? ( I live in Ohio)

Should I ask for what brands of Pals they sell to get a feel for expericence and depth of product they have?

We have 3 small Optometrist offices in town (8,000) with most having the Optometrist and two other employees. Is it likely the one fitting the glasses is an Optician? Will I get good results if it is the Optometrist doing the fitting?

Would you consider my lens size of 1 7/8” W x 1 3/8 H small (numbers on the temple of the frames = 48 21) ??

Thanks
Tom

[For-Life]

Optomitrists generally are not as well at fitting as licenced Opticians, because it is not his or her speciality, and an Optician spends way more time fitting up lenses.

I would suggest talking to a few Opticians and ask them questions to feel them out. Ask them what lens is best for you, what coating is best for you, what type of frame they suggest, ect.


Now, this is very important, each will tell you different things. It does not mean that some are right and others are wrong. They could be all right. So do not get confused by what they tell you. These questions are feel out questions. Then pick the Optician that you trust the most and take his or her opinion on what you should get.

[Daisy]

With progressive lenses any increase in reading or in distance negatively affects the other.

Okay, I get that. Do people agree with my optician that I will be able to read satisfactorily with my progressives if the fitting height is the minimum for the lens but my Add is only +1? (The frame is only 28.5 mm high inside and my fitting height is 19mm, but he will set it down to 18mm which is the lens minimum - it's a premium seiko proceed II 1.67)

Thanks.

[chip anderson]

Go with the Essilor 167. The coatings fail on the Proceed.

[Daisy]

I asked about AR coatings because of your post. They can put on a premium coating at a lab elsewhere for only a little more in cost, though it takes them longer. Probably well worth it then!

Their Seiko costs a fair bit more than their Essilor (ovations) but the optician recommends Seiko (proceed 2) for me because it's a "better" lens. Also as my frame & fitting height aren't very large, he recommends the Seiko, because of my "higher prescription" (-6) and the "Seiko's zero drop to the progression corridor" (something like that I didn't understand but I trusted his preference). Or I can get a shorter corridor lens but he thinks this Seiko will be better because shorter (eg. Brevity, XS, Ellipse) might be trickier for me to adapt.

Bottom line: the frame lens is 28.5mm, my fitting height is 19mm, he recommends Carat AR coating and fitting at 18mm. And the Seiko minimum is 18 mm. I'm a bit worried about cutting it so close, but he thinks it's okay and preferable to the shorter lenses. What do I know? (anyhow if you don't adapt you get to switch to single-vision for free)

[Snitgirl]

Okay, I get that. Do people agree with my optician that I will be able to read satisfactorily with my progressives if the fitting height is the minimum for the lens but my Add is only +1? (The frame is only 28.5 mm high inside and my fitting height is 19mm, but he will set it down to 18mm which is the lens minimum - it's a premium seiko proceed II 1.67)

Thanks.

Daisy,

I couldn't agree or disagree since I never go by the "minimum" fitting height a manuf gives me. I would have to "see" if it will work or not. I "always" check the layout guide to make sure the progressive lens will work (fit) with the frame. Need to check both the reading area and the distance!!! Just because they say "19" doesn't mean "19" is going to work for every single frame out there.. Just my 2 cents..

Ok so what questions should I be asking as I tried to find a optician.

This might be a good question to ask when you are searching for an Optician.

Ask: What do you do to determine if the progressive lens will work/or not for the frame that I choose?

P.S. Maybe some Ober's can answer this question and you can use the answers as a check off list for when you are looking for an Optician.

[SkiBunny]

Snitgirl, Daisy etc:

What about the Seiko Proceed III?

[Daisy]

Daisy,

I couldn't agree or disagree since I never go by the "minimum" fitting height a manuf gives me. I would have to "see" if it will work or not. I "always" check the layout guide to make sure the progressive lens will work (fit) with the frame. Need to check both the reading area and the distance!!! Just because they say "19" doesn't mean "19" is going to work for every single frame out there.. Just my 2 cents..

Snitgirl,

Darn he never did that. Is it reasonable (or pushy) for me to ask him to do this and show me, before purchasing?
(He just did the dot-mark thing on the frame lens)

[Snitgirl]

Snitgirl,

Darn he never did that. Is it reasonable (or pushy) for me to ask him to do this and show me, before purchasing?
(He just did the dot-mark thing on the frame lens)

I don't think its being pushy, but then again, that is the way I feel and others might think differently. I personally don't have any problems educating our patients on what is being created for their visual needs, and/or answer any questions they may have.

[Snitgirl]

Snitgirl, Daisy etc:

What about the Seiko Proceed III?

what about it?

[Lewy]

Daisy,

I couldn't agree or disagree since I never go by the "minimum" fitting height a manuf gives me. I would have to "see" if it will work or not. I "always" check the layout guide to make sure the progressive lens will work (fit) with the frame. Need to check both the reading area and the distance!!! Just because they say "19" doesn't mean "19" is going to work for every single frame out there.. Just my 2 cents..




This might be a good question to ask when you are searching for an Optician.

Ask: What do you do to determine if the progressive lens will work/or not for the frame that I choose?

P.S. Maybe some Ober's can answer this question and you can use the answers as a check off list for when you are looking for an Optician.

What criteria do you use when establishing if the lens will work in a particular frame? Is it that you ensure the full circle of the reading area is within the frame bounderies and how much of the distance portion do you allow for? Lastly do your layout markers show the contour plots for each PAL?

Lewy

[rinselberg]

What about the Seiko Proceed III?

The new Seiko 1.67 "super short" Proceed III with 16mm minimum fitting height:
http://www.seikoeyewear.com/WhatsNew/ProIII.htm

If you go to the SeikoEyewear web page (above), there is an icon to download an 8-page PDF brochure covering the Proceed, Proceed II and Proceed III lens products.

That's as much as I can offer, Daisy -- any further comments on this would have to come from the opticians.

[Daisy]

Thanks for the link! Two questions from it for anyone please:

1) What is the "frame B-measurement"? i.e., is it the height of the lens or the height of the frame (there can be almost 2 mm difference)

2) Aside from being able to fit in a smaller frame, what is the relative advantage & disadvantage of the shorter 12-mm corridor compared to the longer 14-16 mm corridors?

[Snitgirl]

What criteria do you use when establishing if the lens will work in a particular frame? Is it that you ensure the full circle of the reading area is within the frame bounderies and how much of the distance portion do you allow for? Lastly do your layout markers show the contour plots for each PAL?

Lewy

Yes, I make sure the full circle for the reading (using the layout guide) fits inside the frame. For the distance 13 - 15mm of lens above the fitting cross has worked best for me.

Will get back to you on the rest since my lunch break is now over :( byebye

[Christina]

I can't help you with most of these things, just what I know from wearing stuff myself and my recent search for new lenses.

I do know I can read fine without the problems you have, so it's not a PAL problem. I have more room in my glasses for reading than you do, though (about 22 mm from pupil down to frame). I can understand the comment from someone above that they were made wrong in terms of centering or something, I guess.

I also know that lenses don't have to cost as much as you are quoting. I've gotten quotes recently from two chains (For Eyes and Pearle) for PAL lenses and they are only about $200 without the A/R coating. These are standard brands, Kodak and Varilux, and I live in a very expensive major city (Washington DC). I think a lot of places are getting lenses from major labs and the cost may not vary as much by real estate as you'd think, though. But I know $250 is a bit on the high end for what you can get, but not unusual or really bad. Another chain, Pearle, quoted me $330 for some Seiko lenses, but a different Pearle would get me Varilux for only $250 and that even included the A/R coating.

I always get glasses at a different place than my optometrist, because I like my optometrist but don't want to spend $500 for some fancy Swedish frames when I am perfectly happy with the $100 frames I get at For Eyes and places like that. I don't want to just walk into a chain store for an eye exam, however, although I know some of those optometrists are probably perfectly fine, but I have unusual eyes and like my current one. I think if you do it together, it might be more convenient to work out any problems you might have. A good optical place has guarantees, however, if you need to try something else, or need a prescription reviewed. My last optometrist charged me to check my prescription when I couldn't see well and I won't ever go back to him again because, as it turned out, it was the prescription being bad for me rather than the glasses. I thought he had a lot of nerve charging me for that, especially since I had to go to someone else to get a good prescription so I could finally read again.

[Daisy]

Yes, I make sure the full circle for the reading (using the layout guide) fits inside the frame. For the distance 13 - 15mm of lens above the fitting cross has worked best for me.

Will get back to you on the rest since my lunch break is now over :( byebye

Oh-oh... if I understand you and do the arithmetic right, does that mean that PAL users can only consider frames with at least 32 mm lens height?? (ie.: 13-15 mm distance + about 14 mm for the corridor + 4mm reading)

My new frame (not yet filled) has lens height of only 28.5 mm

[Lewy]

Yes, I make sure the full circle for the reading (using the layout guide) fits inside the frame. For the distance 13 - 15mm of lens above the fitting cross has worked best for me.

Will get back to you on the rest since my lunch break is now over :( byebye

You have a lunch break!! What's one of those? I don't think I have had a proper lunchbreak in 18 years.....5 - 10 minutes to grab a sandwich. Can't see the point in just sitting around for an hour.

Lewy

[Robert Martellaro]

Snitgirl, Daisy etc:

What about the Seiko Proceed III?

Thanks, I missed this one. Guess I need to catch up on the trade mags.

The new Seiko 1.67 "super short" Proceed III with 16mm minimum fitting height:
http://www.seikoeyewear.com/WhatsNew/ProIII.htm

If you go to the SeikoEyewear web page (above), there is an icon to click to download an 8-page PDF brochure covering the Proceed, Proceed II and Proceed III lens products.

Thanks for the link.

[QDO1]

The shorter the progression, the greater the comprimise on the reading, intermediate (and possibly the distance) portions of the lens.

Go find a pofessional Optician, who can explain the differences between the lenses, and listen to them in regards frame choice. You are paying for what is in the professionals head. I would not even begin to dispense you without considering your precription, lifestyle, occupation, hobbies and visual needs. The questions you are asking, are the ones a professional Optician asks themselves after the above discussion has been completed. I hope I doent sound rude, but sometimes you just have to trust the Optician to do the job they spent years training for

With regards to dotting lenses with just a pen.. well there are a lot of ways of measuring a patient for a lens, and that is one of the very effective ones. what we might seem to make look simple and easy (or low tech) sometimes is the simplist or most effective method to do the task well. I have a whole barrage of methods of measuring a patient, dotting a lens with a pen is just one of them

your prescription seems a strightforward one to sort out, dont be surprised if a professional optician suggests a 2 pair soloution to your optical needs