Better than Alize?

**EyeSpecSo** · 08-22-2005, 08:23 PM

What's the current state of AR coatings? My current lenses have a lab coating, which was only identified to me as Satin. It was suggested at the time that its performance might be similar to that of Alize, but I find it just as difficult to keep clean as all my previous AR coatings. I gather I'm not the only one who finds that frustrating. :)

I've seen some references to more advanced coatings that build on the advantages of Alize, but have seen no names. Is there anything I should investigate?

(I should mention that I have previously asked this in another thread, where it was a secondary question and perhaps eclipsed by the main question. I thought it might have a better chance of getting a response if it could stand on its own.)

**chip anderson** · 08-22-2005, 09:01 PM

Maybe you just have greasy skin and lashes.

**edKENdance** · 08-22-2005, 09:13 PM

Would it be considered trolling if I were to call Chip a bas/tard again?

heh!

**Chris Ryser** · 08-23-2005, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by EyeSpecSo

I've seen some references to more advanced coatings that build on the advantages of Alize, but have seen no names. Is there anything I should investigate?

Having been in this AR top coating field longer than anybody else in the optical trade. Marketed my first (ALIZE ) type coating in 1987 and have progressed to have one that is anti-stat and anti-fog since 1991 when all others not even thought of of it.

These coatings can be applied by dipping in a solution (in office version) can be removed and or re-applied anytime, or by evaporation in the vacuum chamber (coating lab version). You can check it out on my website at: http://optochemicals.com

Or, there is one coating lab that has just come out with a new double layer in a vacumm applied version and claim that they are far superior to anything else on the market. Here is the address: http://www.lens-coat.com/

**EyeSpecSo** · 08-23-2005, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by chip anderson

Maybe you just have greasy skin and lashes.

Very likely! I assume it would be easier to try a different AR coating than to change my skin. :)

**Andrew Weiss** · 08-23-2005, 08:45 AM

The slickest coating I've found so far is Toledo Optical's proprietary Aclarao coating. So slick we have problems edging the lenses without slippage :hammer:

**SkiBunny** · 08-23-2005, 11:13 AM

Check out the reports on Zeiss Carat Advantage (caveat: this is sourced from Zeiss)

http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12087

View Zeiss Carat Advantage brochure in PDF format (thanks to rinselberg for the link):
http://www.zeisslenses.com/41256820...CP_Brochure.pdf

**Chris Ryser** · 08-23-2005, 11:49 AM

Please keep in mind that whoever does or makes the AR coating there are different basic layers..............

Lens surface

1) Hard coat

2) AR coat

3) Hydrophobic coating (evaporated Pill)

4) Slick coat

**chip anderson** · 08-23-2005, 01:17 PM

This may or may not be related but it's amazing what is no longer taught in school anymore. I can remember being taught that the purpose of soap was not to kill germs. Soap mixes oil with water.
I see many rich educated spoiled women and some men that think "washing my hands" means lathing them with water. This leaves oil (secreted by skin and this is what leaves fingerprints) on the hand which will be tranfered to whatever it touches. Of course the hand/body picks up oil and dirt from other sources.

Have you ever tried to clean your glasses after eating potato chips? Darn, I just spelled taters with a p. I don't know if one can ask patient's "Do you wash your hands with soap, prior to cleaning your glasses? One can get by with telling them to wash thier hands with Ivory soap prior to cleaning thier contact lenses. One should in both cases advise soap that does not contain oily substances, like lanolin, cocoa butter, cold cream, etc.

Chip

**slaboff** · 08-23-2005, 01:30 PM

I use Carat Advantage and i find that it is just as good as Alize'.

Currently Essilor has a policy with independant labs that if there is a redo for script change or pd change that the lab is charged back 50% of the lens!

So we have changed to Carat Advantage and have been extremly happy ever since.

BTW they do not have these charge backs in the labs owned by Essilor... very heavy handed tactics :finger:

**For-Life** · 08-23-2005, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by slaboff

I use Carat Advantage and i find that it is just as good as Alize'.

Currently Essilor has a policy with independant labs that if there is a redo for script change or pd change that the lab is charged back 50% of the lens!

So we have changed to Carat Advantage and have been extremly happy ever since.

BTW they do not have these charge backs in the labs owned by Essilor... very heavy handed tactics :finger:

Why would they charge their own labs?

You should not be carrying their product if they are in direct competition to you anyways.

**slaboff** · 08-24-2005, 10:20 AM

So are you suggesting that only essilor labs should carry crizal and varilux lenses?

They would go out of business.

With so many opticians being brain washed into buying these products the independant labs would die out.

The fact is that they support essilor because they have too.

**Chris Ryser** · 08-24-2005, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by slaboff

They would go out of business.

With so many opticians being brain washed into buying these products the independant labs would die out.

Is that not the ultimate goal of the few major corporations ?

**Jacqui** · 08-24-2005, 12:05 PM

Sounds like the Evil Empire wants to get bigger

**For-Life** · 08-24-2005, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by slaboff

So are you suggesting that only essilor labs should carry crizal and varilux lenses?

They would go out of business.

With so many opticians being brain washed into buying these products the independant labs would die out.

The fact is that they support essilor because they have too.

My question is why don't yuo market to those who do not want Essilor products.

When the 3C's got the patent for the magnetic clip on we boycotted it. We had problems with the ethical nature of the company before and while we were boycotting them we had problems with Aspex's unethical side again.

We went about five years without carrying magnetic clip ons. People said we would suffer, Aspex said that we would suffer, but instead we offered different things like prescription sunglasses.

Now how many labs in your area are owned by Sola/Zeiss, Shamir, Hoya, Younger, Signet Armolite, Seiko/Pentax, ect.?

Carry those products and take the people that deal with Essilor labs that use those products away and bring them into yours.

**Cherry Optical** · 08-25-2005, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by slaboff

Currently Essilor has a policy with independant labs that if there is a redo for script change or pd change that the lab is charged back 50% of the lens!

So we have changed to Carat Advantage and have been extremly happy ever since.

BTW they do not have these charge backs in the labs owned by Essilor... very heavy handed tactics :finger:

Wait a minute. If you are a reseller, cloaning needs to happen. If you are a lab, I hear you brother, except for the switching to Zeiss. Instead we just make less money, and give Essilor more money. If you saw the quality of working coming out of Essilor labs, you'd see why they need more of our cash.

Adam

**Cherry Optical** · 08-25-2005, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by For-Life

Why would they charge their own labs?

You should not be carrying their product if they are in direct competition to you anyways.

That one knocked me off my chair. I don't know what things are like in Canada, but if you come a 150 miles south, to Wisconsin, you'll find that everyone calls Progressives "Varilux" and if it is not Varilux, it is crap. You'll also find that AR coatings is called Crizal, and no one has heard of anything besides that.

I wish we could sell something else, but it just doens't work that way. Unless of course someone wants a better progressive, such as a Freeform progressive or a better material, such as TRIVEX, we can put them into a non Essilor products... becasue Essilor is very slow in releasing their FF lens and has not bought a Trivex manufacturer...... yet! First they have to bag on it for a few years.

Adam

**slaboff** · 08-26-2005, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by For-Life

My question is why don't yuo market to those who do not want Essilor products.

When the 3C's got the patent for the magnetic clip on we boycotted it. We had problems with the ethical nature of the company before and while we were boycotting them we had problems with Aspex's unethical side again.

We went about five years without carrying magnetic clip ons. People said we would suffer, Aspex said that we would suffer, but instead we offered different things like prescription sunglasses.

Now how many labs in your area are owned by Sola/Zeiss, Shamir, Hoya, Younger, Signet Armolite, Seiko/Pentax, ect.?

Carry those products and take the people that deal with Essilor labs that use those products away and bring them into yours.

I completly agree with you, although we have been able to buy frames with magnetic clips from other companies the whole time... I use only Shamir products and carat advantage unless forced to use other products due to material restraints such as poly with transitions which is not available through shamir.

my point was that the labs have to offer these other products because so many opticians and doctors just automatically go to varilux, even though they are not the best IMHO.