Lab Breaks Lenses Twice. What Should I Do?

[Breather]

A little long but I would really appreciate any advice.

Hi,

I'm new here and I need advice on how I should handle a big problem with glasses I ordered. The problem is ultimately with the lab my optometrist's office selected to make the glasses, and not the eye doctor's office or staff itself. Although, I have to handle the situation through them. I've went to this OD for more than a decade and have always been completely satisfied and I don't really want to go to another Dr.

I picked out a Joseph Abboud JA 104 frame in a 52/17/145 size. The eye size is 52 and the vertical is 28. My old frame was a Giorgio Armani 1071 in a 51/19. I had the polycarbonate lenses in that frame.

My prescription is -3.50(single vision) and I don't have an astigmatism. I don't know the other numbers offhand. My old lenses weren't too bad in terms of edge thickness but I thought they were borderline, out of too much vanity I guess. The OD's office said the new lens will be just a little thicker at the edge due to a 52 eye versus my past 51. Also, the new frame is a little thinner than the Armani's I had. So, I started asking about the high index lenses. They didn't know the index of the polycarbonate offhand but thought it was a 1.56 or 1.59. They said that high index lenses were available in 1.6, 1.66, and 1.70 Hoya.

I picked the 1.70 Hoya with Super Hi-Vision AR, realizing that it may be very serious overkill with a -3.50 and probably wouldn't have a perceptible difference in thickness from the others(poly, 1.6, 1.66) at my prescription, maybe?? The girl at the office said each one would be thinner and I would notice the difference between the poly and the others, even at my Rx. Money wasn't an issue though and the coating on the Super's is supposed to resist fingerprints and water spots and I scratched the crap out of my old ones.

Here comes the problem(finally). I ordered the glasses on July 12th. Typically, this OD gets glasses back to me within a week. On July 25th(13 days after ordering), I get a call from the OD's office. They tell me that the lab called them that day and said they cracked the lens while cutting it and would have to reorder the lens since the lab didn't have it in stock. Disappointed, I said okay and thought I would have them in another seven days or so. Fast forward nine days to August 3rd and I've heard nothing. I call the OD's office and the girl calls the lab. I get a return call stating that the glasses are almost done and should ship out to my OD on August 4th. Well, I get a call from the OD's office on August 4th with bad news. The lab called them and said after "etching?" the lenses, they weren't happy with them and needed to make them for the third time! 23 days, two sets of lenses broken, and no glasses on my face. They wanted me to agree to a third attempt. I told the OD's office NO out of frustration and said I had no confidence in my $450 purchase being done right considering the lab had messed up two sets of lenses already. So, I didn't give authorization to make them a third time and put things on hold.


What should I do? Does a 1.70 in a -3.50 create a lens so thin and brittle that it can be difficult to cut or etch? Or could the lab have an incompetent or inexperienced person working on this?

I think I have four options:

-Have the eye doctor's office send out the glasses to one of the other labs they use and hope they get it right.

-Go with a polycarbonate or 'lower' high index for added thickness and strength, hoping the current lab can then get it right.

-Give the current lab a third try on the 1.70's and hope they get it right.

-Take my frames and prescription and seek out someone else to make them.

Thanks for any advice you may have.

[chip anderson]

Look labs have about 5 standard excuses. The most frequently used : "They had a breakage." No matter where the lab is, the girl on the phone can say this with the same inflection as any other lab anywhere in the country. Just live with it, what actually happened may not have been a breakage, it could have been a scratch, a screwdriver slipping or a lot of things, it could even have happened at the doctor's end. It's just that lab people get so good and experienced at saying: "They had a breakage" it has become the standard excuse. You won't die if you wait a little longer, it builds charater.

[Judy Canty]

Thanks Chip. I agree 100%! Keep in mind that every time there's a breakage, someone's losing money and it isn't you.

[For-Life]

Murphy's Law

Last month I did a drill mount rimless frame. The lab calls in a week saying that they broke the bridge. So we get one sent to them by the frame manufacturer. Then we hear nothing. Phone them, see that they did not receive the bridge. We phone the company and they said they sent it. Give it another day. Then we find out the frame company sent it by ground ICS. At this point the customer is upset. The lab gets the bridge and spoils a pair of lenses. Uses another pair and send it to us. We phone the customer and tell him tomorrow.

ICS takes the package and ships it to Regina.

So we had to wait another day.

So now we have 2 mistakes by the lab and a mistake by the shipper and frame distributor.







The fact is sometimes mistakes happen. I can also tell you that if the mistakes happen they will happen over and over again on one particular job.

That does not mean it is a bad job, a bad package, a bad dispensery, or a bad lab. It just means it is bad luck.

[PAkev]

You have a lot ot things going on with your lenses and therefore more potential for something to not come out perfect in the end product.

This is one reason some options cost more than what they should seem to since the the potential of breakage is built into your orig cost. High index material alone takes a lot of extra care to process and is not uncommon to turn out off power more often than cr-39.

[hcjilson]

Getting it "right" is what its all about.Be thankful the lab or the Doctor didn't use on of the 50 ways you can fudge a job that isn't perfect. Your situation, while not the norm, happens occasionally. It usually happens with a lens that can be hard to get-(backorder problems due to high demand and limited production) which I suspect is the case here.

You do indeed have a number of choices and folks here will be as varied with their advice as are your choices. You opted for a superior lens.If you want to settle for less in the interest of time, that's your decision.You won't be any less happy with poly now than you were before, but you will be lacking a higher quality lens.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[OPTIDONN]

Look labs have about 5 standard excuses. The most frequently used : "They had a breakage." No matter where the lab is, the girl on the phone can say this with the same inflection as any other lab anywhere in the country. Just live with it, what actually happened may not have been a breakage, it could have been a scratch, a screwdriver slipping or a lot of things, it could even have happened at the doctor's end. It's just that lab people get so good and experienced at saying: "They had a breakage" it has become the standard excuse. You won't die if you wait a little longer, it builds charater.

To be honest breakage is the last thing a lab would want to admit. That means that someone some where screwed up. Why would a lab use that as an 'excuse'?

Breather you have spent way too much for these glasses and waited WAY TOO LONG!!! Does this Dr. only work with one lab? I am all about giving people the benefit of a doubt but in this case the lab should have really done something. But you did the right thing. If you return them this gives the doctor the chance to put some pressure on the lab. After all they are costing him money and his reputation! I understand that things can be on back order etc. but there is still a thing called customer service.

[karen]

Sorry about your troubles. Not every lab can do 1.70 so if you want that material you will need to stick with where they are. The Tensile strength of 1.70 is pretty high and should hold up to drilling just fine. You have a premium AR so you may have coating issues or edging/drilling/mounting issues. Had I sold those glasses to you I would have said they take 14 working days. 3 pieces take longer, AR takes longer, high index can take longer. I knwo you are frustrated but they will likely be very worth the wait. Keep in mind that the lab had now lost it's @ss on these lenses so they are feeling the pain as well!! Good luck and let us know how they turn out.

[cinders831]

Murphy's Law

Last month I did a drill mount rimless frame. The lab calls in a week saying that they broke the bridge. So we get one sent to them by the frame manufacturer. Then we hear nothing. Phone them, see that they did not receive the bridge. We phone the company and they said they sent it. Give it another day. Then we find out the frame company sent it by ground ICS. At this point the customer is upset. The lab gets the bridge and spoils a pair of lenses. Uses another pair and send it to us. We phone the customer and tell him tomorrow.

ICS takes the package and ships it to Regina.

So we had to wait another day.

So now we have 2 mistakes by the lab and a mistake by the shipper and frame distributor.







The fact is sometimes mistakes happen. I can also tell you that if the mistakes happen they will happen over and over again on one particular job.

That does not mean it is a bad job, a bad package, a bad dispensery, or a bad lab. It just means it is bad luck.

AMEN TO THAT!

[Joann Raytar]

Getting it "right" is what its all about.Be thankful the lab or the Doctor didn't use on of the 50 ways you can fudge a job that isn't perfect.

I agree with Harry. It's a good thing that they just won't pass something along to you to meet a deadline.

[jtart2]

I'm an optometrist and have gone throught what you are going through several times.

It takes a long time to get 1.70 lenses froma Hoya lab because...
1. They probably didn't have the lens in stock to begin with
2. After cutting the lens, they had to ship it to another lab for the AR Coat which takes about a week
3. When they put the AR on the lens it gets slippery and may twist while being "edged" not "etched". This would result in a wrong Rx being put into your glasses
4. Or someone just scratched the lens, which is easy to do when working with small screwdrivers on tiny screws.
5. When one mistake is made, it is a cascading effect. Everything goes wrong when one thing goes wrong!

Keep in mind 1.70 is THE thinnest you can get. And if you want a premium product, you should be willing to wait for it. Up until 25 years ago, it normally took a month to get your glasses because of the meticulous attention to detail and lack of advanced machines. If you didn't want to wait and were not worried about thickness, why get 1.70 lenses?

I ordered Hoya Summit ECP Phoenix Transitions Progressive lenses for a patient in a Drill Mount Silhouette frame. It took the lab over 6 weeks to get it made correctly for one reason or another. The patient didn't complain too much, even though she paid a lot of money. I felt really bad, so after cussing the lab people out, I offered her a pair of single vision polarized sunglasses and let her pick any sunglass frame. The lab actually paid for the lenses, and the patient was happy she got a free pair of sunglasses out of it. But she finally received her top-notch glasses!

Remeber, patience is a virtue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

[drk]

Different take, here, maybe unpopular.

You bought a top-quality set of lenses for a higher price. You deserve the experience to go along with it.

It's up to the Dr.'s office to make you happy. Although bad stuff happens to nice people, that's no excuse.

In my office, we've dropped a lab and the whole line of products they supply for exactly the same circumstances. What good is a product line if the manufacturer is unreliable?

There are alternative labs and alternative products that can/should be used in a situation such as this. Your Dr.'s office should be falling all over themselves to make you happy when something wrong goes on.

If I were you, I'd figure out what compensation you feel is fair, and ask for it.

[shellrob]

Like Karen said, the problem here is the lenses themselves and the fact that it takes a long time for a lab to get those lenses. We don't use an outside lab to order them so we can get them much faster.

There are other options for you that you might want to discuss with your doctor if you do not wish to wait any longer for the 1.70 lenses.

Good luck.

[William Walker]

When working for a private OD, I tossed around the idea of having a system in place for occurences like this. The problem we ran into is that once we started the job with a specific lab, we had to stay with that lab and be at their mercy until it was finished, because if we went to another lab, we would be charged by each lab, and at that point, quite possibly loosing money. My other constriction as manager is that our office had a no return policy, so when patients came to me for resolution, I had no authority to give them their money back, even when it came down to Gradal Induviduals, which take about 4 weeks to get sent to our edging lab, after they've had a breakage in their last days at the edging lab.

From the optical side of things, I think if you were to call the office, and thell them you are frustrated, but you understand that the doctor's office is just the middle-man, it relieves tensions both ways very easily. Then it becomes a colaborative effort to find the best solution. I've had labs offer to make a non-ar set of lenses for a patient, either in their old frame, or one of our cheapies, for N/C, so the patient has something to wear in the meantime. Afterwards, the patient could keep them as a backup, or something to mow the yard in.

In my opinion, I would stay with the 1.70 lens. Normally, as the index of refraction (the number associated with the lens) becomes higher, the Abbe value (the optical crispness) goes down. In the high index 1.70, the Abbe value shoots back up, giving you an awesome thin lens, with low distortion.

Good luck!

[For-Life]

Different take, here, maybe unpopular.

You bought a top-quality set of lenses for a higher price. You deserve the experience to go along with it.

It's up to the Dr.'s office to make you happy. Although bad stuff happens to nice people, that's no excuse.

In my office, we've dropped a lab and the whole line of products they supply for exactly the same circumstances. What good is a product line if the manufacturer is unreliable?

There are alternative labs and alternative products that can/should be used in a situation such as this. Your Dr.'s office should be falling all over themselves to make you happy when something wrong goes on.

If I were you, I'd figure out what compensation you feel is fair, and ask for it.

So if this is the first mistake they have made and the rest of the time they have been perfect are you going to drop them?

I deal with the lab that I do because they are the best in my opinion. When I dealt with other labs I had a lot of problems. But even with my perfect lab I have had stupid mistakes happen in a blue moon. Without being that store I cannot criticize the lab, because we do not know if this is a one time occurance or a reaccuring problem.

[ziggy]

Like karen and shellrob said ,a lot of it has to do with the lens slection. That being said the optician should know of the likelyhood of delays and let you know in advance that it may take longer. If you know up frount then you can make a choice that best suites you needs. Good luck and let us know what happens.

[Breather]

Thanks for taking the time to reply to this thread. I'm at work right now so I'll try and address some individual posts later this evening. I wanted to add a few things.

When I picked these frames and placed the order, I was told 7-10 days since they overnight the frames to the lab. The frames aren't a rimless frame. They're just a normal, thinner, stainless steel frame. The lab is close enough so things can be overnighted back and forth, according to my eye doctor's office. The lab had the Hoya 1.70 lenses in stock at the time and all work and coating is done at that lab and then the finished glasses are sent back to the OD's office. After the first set of lenses were cracked, the lab had to reorder. I can understand that. It's a little disappointing for the customer but mistakes happen. I didn't get completely frustrated until the replacement lenses came to the lab and were then damaged on a second attempt around August 4th, after ordering my glasses on July 12th.

I've been nothing but polite to my eye doctor's office(and will continue to be) and I've made it clear that it's not their fault.

The time isn't the main issue. After being told 7-10 days, 23 days have passed as of August 4th and then I find out the lab now wants permission to start a third attempt. It's just a little frustrating. I didn't freeze things until the second set was damaged. I didn't want the lab to spend the money on a third set and then cancel on them, leaving them stuck and losing money on a third set of lenses.

I'm leaning towards letting them make a third and final attempt. If I go that route, I just hope they're as critical of any mistakes as they have been to this point.

[For-Life]

Again, mistakes happen and sometimes they happen several times to the same people.

[Breather]

Out of curiousity, with the specific frame I picked, its measurements, and the prescription information I've given, what lenses would you have suggested? The polycarbonate, the 1.6, the 1.66, or the 1.70, assuming price difference wasn't an issue?

[For-Life]

Out of curiousity, with the specific frame I picked, its measurements, and the prescription information I've given, what lenses would you have suggested? The polycarbonate, the 1.6, the 1.66, or the 1.70, assuming price difference wasn't an issue?

The 1.70 Hoya Super Hi is a great lens.

[karen]

When I picked these frames and placed the order, I was told 7-10 days since they overnight the frames to the lab. The frames aren't a rimless frame. They're just a normal, thinner, stainless steel frame. The lab is close enough so things can be overnighted back and forth, according to my eye doctor's office. The lab had the Hoya 1.70 lenses in stock at the time and all work and coating is done at that lab and then the finished glasses are sent back to the OD's office. After the first set of lenses were cracked, the lab had to reorder. I can understand that. It's a little disappointing for the customer but mistakes happen. I didn't get completely frustrated until the replacement lenses came to the lab and were then damaged on a second attempt around August 4th, after ordering my glasses on July 12th.

I've been nothing but polite to my eye doctor's office(and will continue to be) and I've made it clear that it's not their fault.

The time isn't the main issue. After being told 7-10 days, 23 days have passed as of August 4th and then I find out the lab now wants permission to start a third attempt. It's just a little frustrating. I didn't freeze things until the second set was damaged. I didn't want the lab to spend the money on a third set and then cancel on them, leaving them stuck and losing money on a third set of lenses.

I'm leaning towards letting them make a third and final attempt. If I go that route, I just hope they're as critical of any mistakes as they have been to this point.

Sorry, I thought they were 3 piece. Thinner stainless steel with an inverted bevel perhaps that chips when they are mounted?? (just ran into one of those today an account insists on putting a high plus lens in-can you say disaster??) Well being a lab rep myself about here is the time when my account calls me and lets me know how my lab has not folllowed through and I usually get involved. Have called the patient a few times myself to apologize and make sure the patient knows it is us and not the Doc that screwed up. I used to work for Hoya, it really is a beautiful material
:shiner:

[Happylady]

The Hoya 1.7 is a great lens and the Super Hi Vision is a great AR. However, your glasses would have looked fine in a 1.67, I doubt you would notice any difference. The poly(which is a 1.59) or the 1.60 would be slightly thicker.

The Hoya 1.7 can only be done at a Hoya Lab. Chances are the optical shop has accounts with different labs, but probably only 1 Hoya lab. Thus, they can't have this lens done elsewhere.

I usually tell people about 2 weeks for this lens. Often we get it sooner, but sometimes we get jobs like yours where everything goes wrong. We get frustrated, you get frustrated, and I am sure the lab does too.

As long as your present glasses are okay to wear, I would give them a little more time and hope the third time is the charm.

[Stopper]

Any chance this is a VSP job? Your doc may be limited in the lab choice if it is/

Cheers

[rtperry]

The labs I work with will offer a discount if they have alot of problems with someones glasses. you might ask for this and just wait it out.

[drk]

So if this is the first mistake they have made and the rest of the time they have been perfect are you going to drop them?

No. This lab was habitual bad luck for me. Good point though.

My vote is Seiko's 1.6.