Do you put an AR coat on both sides of sunglasses or just the backside? Is there any benefit to putting it just on the backside? My labs charge the same to put it just on the back as to put it on both sides. I have done it both ways, but I am not sure which is best and for what reasons.
We typically only put it on the backside here. Optically, it would probably be marginally clearer to do both sides, but because of the increased abuse sunglasses seem to get, I usually steer away from that option. Also, we often do performance mirrors on the front, making them similar to high end sunglasses like Maui Jim.
Do you put UV treatment on the lenses prior to AR coating?
As anti reflective for sunglass use is to keep the glare off of the backside of the lens so you do not see reflections.
AR on clear lenses is to increase light transmission. Sunglasses tints by design are to decrease light transmission. Using polarized high quality lenses such as the new ICE-TECH Rx we will be introducing very soon, will block glare with excessive darkening by the amount of light that is being limited to reach the eye. The backside AR will almost stop completely the reflections when the sun is behind you or light reflected where it hits the back surface of the lens.
In theroy using AR on the front would increase the amount of light transmitted and you would not need as dark of a tint. We do not recommend AR for the front only our mirrors and our Free-ICE super hydrophobic.
Here is the way I approach thes choices.
1) What type of frame is being rx'd. Usually non-wrap sunglasses will benefit the most from having an ARC applied. Wrap sunglasses tend not to allow a lot of light in from behind, so an ARC is not a necessity.
2) When dealing with premium ARC most of these have to be applied on both side, therefore a backside ARC is usually of a lower quality. Exception to that is when appling a mirror/flash mirror to the front. UTMC bundles their backside ARC and mirrors together and I've had very good results.
So I usually won't bother with ARC on wraps, and even though I don't think it as cosmetically appealing, I would rather coat both sides than just the backside.
I agree with Jedi; that's the way I usually do things as well.
Related note: Has anyone used Solaire lenses from Essilor yet? They were touted as fixing this exact problem (glare on the back of sunglass lenses), and a darker tint for poly. I've found the exact opposite to be true, however. The tint isn't very nice looking, the residual flash they use on the front doesn't complement the tint at all, and the backside AR has the appearance of a shoddy AR coat like Mirage.
Jedi stated: 2) When dealing with premium ARC most of these have to be applied on both side, therefore a backside ARC is usually of a lower quality. Exception to that is when appling a mirror/flash mirror to the front. UTMC bundles their backside ARC and mirrors together and I've had very good results.
This is not correct other than that this may be all that is offered. I know I have spent two years developing the best process for prescription sunglasses. We have developed a process that does not put an AR on the front but does bond our Free-ICE super hydrophobic to the front surface of the lens by first using our vacuum system to apply our bonding material. This gives a great front surface for a non mirrored lens and we apply our AR to the back side of every one of our ICE-TECH Advanced Polarized Lenses.
AR is applied one side at a time so it is very easy to put the same quality AR on one side only. As I said a lab may not offer the quality AR on one side only but it is possible.
I would like to know how you judge AR Diamond Jim. If you can look at an AR and say it is shoddy, what do you see that tells you this.
With the AR we developed I wanted to know two major factors:
1- PERFORMANCE
2-DURABILITY
After this we looked at cosmetics and developed our green hue AR, our blue hue AR and our red hue AR.
I have spent a lot of time testing AR and I can not look at AR and determine a good one from a bad one without a spectrophotometer, (other than one that has failed by cracking or pealing).
Backside AR is better for all sunglasses even wraps as reflections can still be a problem. I know you can save money this way but if you want a really durable hydrophobic I doubt many labs will offer this without a backside AR.
I have a very expensive pair of Lux Revos. They have no back side AR. They are a wrap design. I totally notice reflections on the backside in certain conditions. I think it's a must. Recently did a pair with front and back AR and they turned out fabulous. They haveb't been returned yet. Backside? For sure.
I can appreciate your developments, (though I didn't see any reference to RX lenses on your web-page, do you have a link?) but a complicating factor in this is trying to have one company do everything. I would rather have Essilor coat their own sunlenses. It cuts down turn around time, the warranty is better, and they can service you on the entire job. If it means coating both sides to get D' Alize on a Panamic, instead of putting a RF999 on just the back, then so be it, those are the things we have to balance out on a per job basis. If the lens is from company x and and the coating is from company y the it opens up the possibility for eating lenses. Now keep in mind this is more of a factor with PAL's, but as we all now presbyopes are the largest segment of our clientele it comes into play every day.Originally Posted by AWTECH
I am pretty sure Lux Revo's have back side coating at least in Rx.
We do back side only although charged full price from our lab. The same amount of labor is involved or more. AR on the front is more visible when a print is on it because the dark tint underneath contributes to it's visibility. We love dielectric mirrors on the front of sun glasses. For a complete AR/Mirror price we charge a reduced fee. My favorite lab is North American Coating Laboratories for this combo.
Other then extra care needed in cleaning an ar lens is there any reason not to ar the front when you ar the back?
Honestly? No, you can't tell (usually) what type of AR it is just by looking. However, I have never in my career been a fan of anti-reflective coatings. They just don't offer enough benefits to off-set the cracking and peeling problems and constant cleaning.
This changed when Alize came on the market. I love that stuff. So easy to clean, and in more than a year of selling it, I've seen only a handful of defective coatings.
So, if I see a lens that has AR on one side only, I can be sure it's not Alize and thus, for me anyway, it's substandard.
Usually AR is put on the back surface of a tinted/polarized lens in order to cut down on reflections from the sides. This would apply to larger frames like aviator style frames primarily. You don't AR the front because it's tinted. In other words, who cares about reflections off the front when you are trying to limit the amount of light through the lens via some tint or polarization anyway. At least this is the rationale I use.
Opticiansfriend.com guy.
I am constantly surprised by comments like Diamond Jim.
"This changed when Alize came on the market. I love that stuff. So easy to clean, and in more than a year of selling it, I've seen only a handful of defective coatings.
So, if I see a lens that has AR on one side only, I can be sure it's not Alize and thus, for me anyway, it's substandard."
NO OFFENSE to you Diamond Jim, but you are infering that Alize is the only product that is good and it must be on both sides. This thread is talking about AR and sunlens and AR on the front of a sunlens is not the correct answer. I admit Alize is a good product, but don't draw the conclusion that no one else can make anything comparable. By specializing in polarized lenses, ICE-TECH has created a product that will perform equal to, and I feel better than, what anyone else is offering.
Sub standard AR was to a large extent due to pressure from retailers for low low cost here in the US on everything. Japan and Europe did not experience the problems with AR that the US has over the last 10 years. Most labs in Japan and Europe only use thermal hard coating, in the US, UV cured hard coating is everywhere. I admit these UV have improved however 5 years ago these UV coatings would cause AR adheasion problems. Thermal takes more time and we have become demanding for instant gradification.
You have discovered one significant fact that is hidden in your praise for Alize, and that is that Alize is much more expensive than the cheapest AR you can order somewhere else. Sometimes you get what you pay for.
AW: And no offense to you, but since I haven't seen your AR, I can't very well tell you what I think of it. I can only describe the experiences I've had with the various AR coats I've personally worked with.Alize IS the only good AR coat I've ever seen.
AWTECH is totally right. I am working together on a research project with a coating lab in the uSA on AR coatying top layer and have just succeded to come up with a product that will move the Alize system into the shade.
There are always new ideas being brought into reality of which you people in the retail dont know about because of conservatism, or poor information by the optical trade press that favours only their big advertising dollar companies.
Tri-supreme labs has their own in house AR that's pretty good, I think it is called Endura and has something like 12 layers to it, so it's not some half-baked treatment. Alize is great, I have it on my own lenses. I think AR on average are getting remarkably better. Even the "cheap" ARs are better than before especially with the hydrophobic layer that is applied greatly reduces cleaning and hence reduces scratches.
Opticiansfriend.com guy.
I always suggest a backside coat, and usually do front side as well. I do both sides on my suns and love 'em:)
Regular Crizal is pretty darn good. The Carat and the Carat Foundation seem to be very good also. Hoya Super Hi Vision is wonderful. For standard AR I like the Zeiss SET. I have rarely seen a problem with Zeiss, though it isn't quite as scratch resistant as the others.AW: And no offense to you, but since I haven't seen your AR, I can't very well tell you what I think of it. I can only describe the experiences I've had with the various AR coats I've personally worked with.
I had a set made up and I haven't been all that impressed. I'm a moderately high myope, and they just don't look good. The treatment actually seems to emphasize the negative effect of high minus lenses. Very noticable fishbowl effect to them, additionaly the chromium brown tint has got to be the ugliest brown lens treatment I have ever seen.
On the other hand, about 3 weeks ago I had a setof sun glasses made with the Vision-Ease Melanin and have been very impressed. Orange frontside mirror and backside AR, easily the best looking sun glasses I've got. Not the best lens if you are very light sensitive, actually took me a couple of days to get used to the brightness, but once I did they've been awsome. Superb lens for the area I live in (couple of miles from the ocean, lots of morning and afternoon haze).
Ray
Yes, the ar would let more light transmission through the front of the lens
Chris, I thought you said that all ar coatings are the same? I agree that alize' is a great product however we do not use it... we use carat advantage which i believe is more scratch resistant than alize'
About 1 year ago crizal decided to charge back 50% of the lens to non affiliated labs when dealing with pd errors or script changes... in my opinion this should be illeagal, if they charge the indepenant labs they should charge their affiliate labs..
Its these kind of heavy handed sales tactics that completly turn me off from essilor in general...
In my opinion they no longer have the best progressive or ar coating on the market today, so why use them...
I disagree that all AR is equal
It is made from the same stuff but not applied the same ways.
Super Hi is the most scratch resistant by far.
Alize is much easier to clean than Super Hi and is really, really easier to clean than Teflon.
Then we have the process. Why is it that with Super Hi and Alize I get a lot less crazing than some of the competitors?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks