Interesting... have you seen the ipseo fit to a real pt yet, and/or is it avail here yet? (pete's post seems to indicate it's availability is still quite geographically limited).Originally Posted by For-Life
Interesting... have you seen the ipseo fit to a real pt yet, and/or is it avail here yet? (pete's post seems to indicate it's availability is still quite geographically limited).
I saw it once and talked to the patients who got it. Talked to several who do it, and am getting it soon.
fitting height?
I personally would feel I would be doing my clients a disservice by not offering the latest lenses/materials/frames or at the very least mentioning them. There are plenty of "good enough" lenses on the market and you are right about the adaptation being in the hand of the dispenser, but if you want to stand still and have the "big boxes" run over you keep refusing to embrace new technology and pass it off as a marketing trap. In order to rise above your competetion, don't let your personal feelings come into play while dispensing (it really doesn't matter you think a lens is overpriced), base your dispensing on technical fact, patient needs and patient wants. Clients that see value in a product will purchase it, whether it is a $50 lens or a $1000 PAL.Hello All:
Let's take a look at the big picture, and let's not fall into another marketing "trap." Understanding that a customized progressive is a neat and different option to our patients, and that others have had some success converting tri and bi's with this lens product, I have found that many of today's front surface progressive lens technologies (within the past 4-5 years) perform phenomenally with today's active patients while keeping pricing within reason. Also keep in mind, that by introducing more and more variables, and giving the patient the opportunity to introduce inaccurate data to the equation, thus leaving one baffled that they spent as you say $700, $800, $900????!!! for a pair of lenses that leave them with the same visual experience as their existing pair is unnecessary and not worth the trouble and long turn around time. Product 'adaptation' falls in the hands of the qualified dispenser to inform/educate the consumer how to 'learn' how to wear their new lenses, and to fit based on their overall needs, not with what will pull the largest buck. It WILL be a matter of time when this will be passed on to all of our competitors (insert chain retailer here), who will be able to sell the same thing for considerably less. Oh well....
I'm not sure what d_75701 means by "inaccurate data" --?
The ophthalmologist or O.D. measures the patient's Rx.
The optician provides the more specific patient and frame related parameters, taking measurements as needed, to arrive at segment height, PD, vertex distance, pantoscopic tilt; etc.
The Essilor Vision Print System automatically measures the patient's head and eye movement pattern, which is used to customize the design of each Ipseo lens.
Where does d_75701 see the possibility of inaccurate data coming into the equation?
Reference:
http://www.visioncareproducts.com/45/lens_varilux.html
The Vision Print System is an FDA approved device ...
Not all the time it doesn't! I recently had a Px who felt they had done the programme wrong. When i ran it again the results were completely different..To be sure I ran it several times and the results were then similar. Needless to say the Px is having problems with lenses made from the first set of results. What do other people say to Px's when undertaking the VPS? We ask them to look at the lights when they appear at random but aybe it could be phrased better.
Regards,
Lewy
Today I found out that Hakim optical will be moving into a place a few blocks down. I found out the Zellars in our small mall might get an optical store. I cannot fight these guys on price. What I can do is offer products that no one else in town will and could offer.
The Ipseo is just one potential area. It is all about differentiating.
If your town is a prosperous one and/or has people with heavy prescriptions, the zellers & hakim won't impact much except probably on the low end. People like me wouldn't dream of buying either low end or from zellers.
It is not as much that we are a prosperous town as much as we are the only mid to high end store in town.
We do have less expensive stuff, but we are the only ones who specialize in certain products.
The Ipseo is not for everyone, but for some people it is the lens for them.
My response to "inaccurate data"
Most people hate taking tests. I know I did all thru my 'learnin' years, this was the last thing that I wanted to do. My point being, is that most everything the patients go thru in our industry is a test. Their eyes are being 'tested' for various eye problems, and corrected accordingly. This is not a single person on this board that has never had to do a DR's change. And, I am not placing any blame on them, this happens. Patients sit in the chair, and can provide responses that are no contusive to what is being asked of them, thus, the script is off base. I realize that we now, and have had tools available to us that removes this human error, but it happens.
Now, place that same patient on this apparatus, and give them another "test." Keeping in mind that they have accommodated for such extraneous errors, their will be occasions where the data is inaccurate. Who eats the returned lenses??? What's the policy then???
Knowledge is key; and yes, offering the best product for the patient is the right thing to do. I'm saying; let's not go overboard with this thing right away. Let's study others' results, and move forward. Labs will have to retro-fit, and others will compete. The first automobile wasn't exactly the best, was it????
:cheers:
Hi All,
My last post was on 8-4. Since that time we have fit 6 more Ipseos. To date not one patient has come back. We call every patient about 2 weeks after dispensing and I have taken on the task of calling the Ipseo patients personally. The comments have been positive from the 22 patients that I have called so far.
FYI, the first thing Essilor tells you when explaining how to present this to your patient, is do not say that it is a test, it is a measurement-A test is something that people pass or fail and it is not possible with the VPS. Also, the patient is not placed on any apparatus, they simply put on what looks like a pair of glasses and search for the lights-there are no chin rests or buttons to push.
I am posting because this is new to the market, I am not trying to SELL this product to you, I am trying to help you make an informed decision. Believe me, if and when I have a problem I will share that with you also.
Sosher
Michele,
When using the VPS what do you actually say to the people before teking the measurements? I appear to get some confusion in operation as I ask them to look centrally and then when the light appears on one of the stalks to look at it until the machine 'beeps' then look back at the middle. People then ask whether they should turn and look at the light. I am trying hard to come up with an unambigous phrase I can say to them.
Lewy
While pointing at the area where the lights are placed,
I say "these 3 lights are going to go off horizontically in front of you, I want you to search for the lights as they go off, I want it to be very comfortable and natural to you, whether it be moving your head or cutting your eyes." First I am going to do a very short demonstration, the actual measurement only last about 1 minute. After the demonstration I ask if it was comfortable for them or if they have any questions.
Sosher
Thanks Michele
Lewy
No way!! Alize' is definately a better product...Over the past 20 years I have sold many "not so good" ar coatings, so bad that I wasn't even promoting the product...until Crizal came out. The Alize' is soooo much easier to clean and the scratch resistant coating is much better also. I have even had pts come in and thank me for selling them Alize'. That is the true test for me....the pts response.. Zeiss does not seem to stand up as well, in my opinion. We have many more warranty replacements with Zeiss than Crizal or Alize'. And the cost of Alize' in our office is only $20 more than Crizal.
phill / anyone:
Is anyone ready to compare Crizal Alize with the new Zeiss Carat Advantage --?
This is the same coating that was known as Zeiss LotuTec in Europe.
ZEISS Introduces Carat Advantage
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12087
View Zeiss Carat Advantage brochure in pdf format:
http://www.zeisslenses.com/412568200...P_Brochure.pdf
Last edited by rinselberg; 08-22-2005 at 02:40 AM.
How can you say the scratch coating is so much better. ?...............it does not serve as an anti scratch coating and is situated between the lens and the AR coating, therefore is not intended toact as a scratch coating but as an adhesive medium for the AR coating.
why are these discussions about coatings all in a thread about Ipseo?
Shouldn't someone split the thread?
As some say lenses aren't that much different, then maybe some should pick the lens based on its available coating?? (Eg. varlilux for alize or zeiss for carat advantage)
Thanks for the links rinselberg
Last edited by SkiBunny; 08-22-2005 at 12:51 PM.
Varilux Ipseo : The best PALs that money can get.
Varilux Ipseo is the best PALs that you can get for today and the performance with the price is very reasonable.
I waiting for PALs like Varilux Ipseo but design with vertical eye/head movement + individual and horopter that can offer far vision like SV , Intermediate and near like Rodenstock Impression Nexyma in only one pair of lenses and I believe that can sell at 5000 US$.
" Life is too short to limit your vision"
ISOPTIK : The Hi-End Eyeglasses Centre
494 ERAWAN BANGKOK 4th floor
Ratchaprasong , Bangkok , Thailand 10330
isoptik@gmail.com
www.isoptik.com
Hotline & SMS : +66 81 538-4200
Fax. : +66 2 251-3770
:cheers:
BUMP!
I have been fitting the Ipseo for a few months and it has been rather successful; however, what progressive lens properly fit is not successful? While everyone talks about how clear their vision is and how great it is I wanted something concrete and here it is.
There is a client of ours who years ago got PAL's somewhere else and had troubles with them. The store then switched him into flat tops. Now I had no idea if he had troubles with the lenses because of a poor fitting or because he just could not stand the distortion.
So he became a client of ours several years back and we have had a good relationship. Now our store introduced the Ipseo in town and at the same time he showed desire to try PALs again. So he came in and we discussed his options. We told him that with a change from a flat top to a PAL that he will need to put a lot of work into it. He is still rather young so he was willing to do so. We talked to him about the Ipseo's and he himmed and hahhed over them for a month or so.
We then got him in for an eye exam and he decided at that point to go with regular PALs knowing about the non-adapt policy and willing to give them a try. He felt the Ipseo was too much and stayed away from it.
His Rx is as follows:
-0.75 -0.75 x 090 3.00 Base Out
-0.25 -0.75 x 090 3.00 Base Out
Add 2.50
He was put into Panamic's with D Alize.
He tried them out for about a month and just said that there was too much distortion and that he wanted to back into flat tops. That was no problem, but one of the staff here convinced him to try the Ipseo. He agreed and paid the difference between the Panamic's and Ipseo's.
He gets his Ipseo's and cannot see any distortion unless he really, really tries to see it. He cannot believe how clear and wide the vision is.
Now I think that is a pretty good case for the lens right there.
Thank you for sharing it!
On the topic of Ipseo, I will say that the results have been mixed. A good friend of mine who I fit with Nikon i a few years ago, has brought his ipseo's back stating that he prefers the peripheral vision, reading width, and the lack of swim in the nikon i to the Ipseo. Another client was in to pick his ipseo's up this weekend, and refused to take them home because he couldn't see as sharply in the distance as his previous pair. The rx is definately reading less than his previous, a compensation they made in the manufacture of his new lenses. They do this compensation business on Panamics too.
-8.25-50x13
-9.50-50x162
add 225
compensated to read in lensometer
-8.14-.24x34
-9.38-.30x140
Any one had problems with the upper limits of power for an Ipseo job?
I have had great results for MOST Ipseo jobs....just a few problems really.
Any feedback on the compensation of rx on panamics and ipseos?
There are a few things I have found about the lens. First the measurement (vision print) is extremely important and it has to be accurate. Make sure you run a test several times.
The second thing is the Ipseo does attract nut jobs. We have certainly seen some of these posters on this board. These are people that cannot get used to anything, because they are nuts. So you have to watch for them.
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