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Thread: How to hurt Luxottica?

  1. #1
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    How to hurt Luxottica?

    Here we go again on our "favorite" subject:hammer:

    I spoke with someone (in the know) who suggested that Luxottica's third party plan NEEDS independents to be marketable to employer groups/health insurers.

    Heretofore, I have not seen any negative in being an Eyemed provider as an independent. I have felt that it was NOT hypocritical to be a provider, but not support them by using their frames. I figured that the main reason Lux has Eyemed is to sell their frames, and as long as I didn't play that game, I could see the patients.

    Now, I'm not sure. By being a panel provider (which I am actually not), would I be supporting Lux by making their network more marketable?

    I guess I'm starting to feel it, a little. I can try to replace Rayban or Prada. But it's difficult to replace that patient of mine with the "new insurance plan" (Eyemed)!

    Heaven forbid they start getting many, many good groups. I may need to cave. If I cave to one aspect, why not cave to all?

    Dang that Luxottica! This is what they want. I feel like I'm dealing with the mob.:(

  2. #2
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    The only question you need to ask is "does participating with Eyemed put money in Luxottica's pocket?"
    ...Just ask me...

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    Bad address email on file Mikef's Avatar
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    Dr. K

    You are right on. Luxottica does need you!

    I ask my customer one ? How much more money will you make if you boycot Luxottica.

    How much more will you make if you join Eyemed?

    How much more will you make if you join Eyemed and but product?

    Political or finacial!

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    Bad address email on file Mikef's Avatar
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    Also,

    Luxottica bought LC to protect there business. They got into managed care to protect their business. The market is saturated with optical shops so the bought Pearle to protect their business. They need independents for there managed care to protect their business. If they hurt independents they will hurt their business.


    Dr. K You need to do what is best for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spexvet
    The only question you need to ask is "does participating with Eyemed put money in Luxottica's pocket?"

    I think the question you need to ask is "does participating with Eyemed (selling Luxottica product) put money in MY pocket?"

    I may be in the minority here on Optiboard, but my independent practice makes more money on some Luxottica product than on most other "mass marketed" lines. It's a business decision, not a knee-jerk reaction to their (very successful) marketing plan. I guess I feel that their advertising has created enough consumer awareness and brand recognition that I can easily compete with LC and beat them on service, price, and selection. As long as my numbers justify this I'm glad to do business with the "evil empire."

    Sorry if this offends some.

    Greetings from the dark side!
    Rich.

  6. #6
    OptiBoardaholic
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    Hurting Luxotica

    I know we all love to hate Luxotica. Unfortunately they do things that upset private practice opticians left and right. When Luxotica took over Lenscrafters I know many opticians cut out most if not all Luxotica products. Basic frame s could be easilyy replaced but what about the lines that were not replacable. People wanted Armani so many places kept the Armani line. I guess customer demand forces us to deal with them anyway.

    Ed

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    Master OptiBoarder Cindy Hamlin's Avatar
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    I was in a LC a week or so ago getting a pair of sunglasses. I thought $100 off and since I buy them out of pocket, why not?

    I have Davis Vision thru work and get a pittance for them from Davis. I gave them my Davis card and they don't take it. I asked "didn't you buy them?" She said yes, but they were keeping the plans seperate.

    I wonder what they are thinking there.
    ~Cindy

    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." -Catherine Aird-

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    Ah DrK. The major dilema. Do I stand on my principle or do I run my business the best and most effecient way possible. You are right, Eyemed needs the Independants to survive and you would be helping Lux by joining. But who knows maybe your area in Columbus is already saturated with providers so they may not need you as much now. I know there are several areas where I live where they are not looking for providers.

    This is a funny topic, I hate Luxottica so I won't buy their product. I actually have quite bit of respect for the ECPs that were so offended by the purchase of Lenscrafters that they did not buy any frames what so ever. No exceptions.

    The ones that I didn't respect as much are the ones that got on their pedestals and preached to all that would listen that they would never buy Luxottica product ever again. Except of course Giorgio Armani because we need that product. Now thats a stand with some backbone to it.

    Face it, Luxottica is moving on with or without you. There are some great programs available to all the independants. All you have to do is take advantage of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich
    I think the question you need to ask is "does participating with Eyemed (selling Luxottica product) put money in MY pocket?"

    I may be in the minority here on Optiboard, but my independent practice makes more money on some Luxottica product than on most other "mass marketed" lines. It's a business decision, not a knee-jerk reaction to their (very successful) marketing plan. I guess I feel that their advertising has created enough consumer awareness and brand recognition that I can easily compete with LC and beat them on service, price, and selection. As long as my numbers justify this I'm glad to do business with the "evil empire."

    Sorry if this offends some.

    Greetings from the dark side!
    Rich.
    Oh Rich you have seen the light. Bottom line if it works for you do it and if it doesn't work for you don't do it. Eyemed doesn't work everywhere. I have places where its not very strong but I have lots more areas where it's very strong and getting stronger.

  10. #10
    Master OptiBoarder rep's Avatar
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    Try changing you viewpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by drk
    How to hurt Luxottica
    Instead of staying up nights trying to think of ways to hurt Luxottica, try staying up nights thinking how you can make more money with them, than their compeditors which do nothing for you and pocket all the money we spend on the private practioner.
    1. Why are you so concerned about a company that only has 20% of the market and 3000 out of the 50,000 stores in the US?
    2. Eye Med is the second largest manged care provider in the country just behind VSP. They already have a huge panel and now that there is no frame requirement practices and practioners are signing up in droves. Why would you isolate yourself from a huge patient base and send them to your real compeditors your peers and local optical chains? Wouldn't you be the first one screaming bloody murder if Eye Med said " Sorry we don't need any more providers"
    3. Finally why would you have the same products that are in every other office close to you and not carry Luxottica's hot lines like Prada, Versace, Ray Ban Ophthalmic, Ferragamo and Mui Mui ? One of the real enlightening responses I get is the Dr who says" I don't want to carry the same products that are in XXXX stores and you look around and he has exactly the same product lines and styles that are in the 10 to 20 surrounding optometric offices around his office.
    I am beginning to think you are another closet Luxottica user. You like all the benefits, but you just love to bash them on the boards.

    Rep

  11. #11
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    I don't "hate" Luxottica. I believe they are an empire because they are increasing their control over the industry. I call them evil because they are the competition - think of them the way you would think of the arch rival of your favorite sports team (the Patriots suck! - they don't, but they beat my team, the Eagles).

    They're also evil because they're luring my potential customers away using clever, misleading advertising. What LensCrafters does best is marketing.

    They are our biggest competition. The money that you spend on their product, directly or indirectly goes to advertising that entices your customers to buy product from their retail outlets. They don't advertise "buy Prada frames", they advertise "$100 off at LensCrafters" - That's a huge difference.

    Rich, no offense taken. But the knee-jerk reaction is to do what puts money in your pocket today, not think about how that Lux profit will bite you in the butt tomorrow.

    Cindy, the single vision poly lenses that I sell for $100, LC sells for $170. The Magic clip frame that I sell for $159, LC sells for $199. If you were to buy the same product and take $100 off the LC price, I'm still $10 less. My guarantee is better, too. Sorry, I'm not open on Sunday, and I don't have a locations all over the country. ;)

    BTW, I have had few people come in asking for a specific Lux designer line, and if they did, I did not lose the sale because I don't carry Lux. I tell them all the chains Lux owns and how we don't want to finance the competition. The patient's expression is usually one of disgust. Then I tell them we carry much better product now. :p

    DRK, hang tough.
    ...Just ask me...

  12. #12
    Bad address email on file fvc2020's Avatar
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    Since this post is more about managed care than product, let me say something. Not to long ago me and my doctor made a decision to accept eyemed. We did so to protect patient base that might change largely after the Cole buyout. We looked at the volume of patients they will have and decided it would give them more power to go after large employers.

    We have seen a few but not alot of patients, but the reaction is the same from every one. Thank god you're on my list. I'm tired of LC/Pearl etc. With the exception of exam reinbursment we do well. We don't sell low end ar or progressives. So patients pay the difference from a 20% discount. Sometimes with add on I received more than I do from VSp.

    With that said, we also did a 6 month "consignment" with Lux. We purchased Prada, Mui Mui, RAy Ban, and Brooks. We had other stuff until this past week. The return while hurting the reps(who most are fabulous)there were no reprecussions. We have done well adding in Prada and Mui Mui. We have done well with some core product and Brooks suns. Once we hit July our payment begins for what's left over. No biggy. We have six months to pay it off. Customer service has not been the greatest. They can not give dates for backorders, and if mistakes are made, it takes an act of God to get them fixed.

    I think it's a give and take on Lux..you make it what you want. Do I feel bad about giving money to the product side of it? Maybe, but some of it is good stuff. Do I feel bad taking money from Eyemed patients? No. Each practice needs to be in their own comfort zone when it comes to Lux.

    christina

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    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
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    can you live with out them??

    If as an indy shop you can do without them you should do so. If it would hurt your business, buy defult, your family then you should crawl in bed with lux. But if your willing have them in you business remember"in for a penny, in for a pound!" I courious in the eye med paper work the patient gets what locations are listed first? Is it the indy's oor the chains? Stand tough DrK!!:bbg:
    Paul:cheers:

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    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Hey, the title of the thread was pure sensationalism. I thought that was obvious.

    Good responses by all.

    I'm almost starting to buy into the theory promulgated by the Lux reps (you know, protect the eyecare market, a rising tide raises all boats, Lux drives patients to your door) BUT...

    I just can't get the disturbing picture out of my mind of a freestanding Luxottica opening up in a strip mall across the street. Already, down the street "at the mall" they have a Sears, Lenscrafters, Sunglass Hut, and a Pearle. I have little doubt that eventually, if everything goes right for them, they are going to try to penetrate the smaller "neighborhood" markets that a lot of us make a living in. Then, I'll be really steamed at myself.

    Can Luxottica promise not to open next to me? I thought not.

    Again, no venom towards Luxottica, just disappointment that they felt they couldn't do business through the independents, and had to do the retailing for themselves, and have continued to buy up everything in sight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drk
    Hey, the title of the thread was pure sensationalism. I thought that was obvious.

    Good responses by all.

    I'm almost starting to buy into the theory promulgated by the Lux reps (you know, protect the eyecare market, a rising tide raises all boats, Lux drives patients to your door) BUT...

    I just can't get the disturbing picture out of my mind of a freestanding Luxottica opening up in a strip mall across the street. Already, down the street "at the mall" they have a Sears, Lenscrafters, Sunglass Hut, and a Pearle. I have little doubt that eventually, if everything goes right for them, they are going to try to penetrate the smaller "neighborhood" markets that a lot of us make a living in. Then, I'll be really steamed at myself.

    Can Luxottica promise not to open next to me? I thought not.

    Again, no venom towards Luxottica, just disappointment that they felt they couldn't do business through the independents, and had to do the retailing for themselves, and have continued to buy up everything in sight.
    DrK let me address a couple of your issues. First off a rising tide does raise all boats. Come to our side brother, the truth will set you free. :D

    On a more serious note you wondered if Luxottica can promise that they will not open next to you and the answer is no. I can't promise and I don't think anybody else can either. But what I can tell you is about my accounts that are literally right across the hall in a mall from a Lenscrafters. After the initial shock their business is up substantially and I will tell you why.

    All through these boards everybody is constantly bashing Lenscrafters. I read where one guy sold his lens for $100 and LC sold for $170. The customer service is crappy at LC while yours is great. LC is pushy and you are not. My only question is why are you not capitalising on LC faults.

    Here's a news flash for everybody. Us reps hate Lenscrafters too. They are nothing but a pain in our keisters and we don't make a nickel from them. I would never and I mean never get my eyes examined or get my frames from them. The difference between us and you is that we just deal with it and try to make the best out of the situation because its not gonna change.

    Think about this for a second. What if it was Cole Vision and Sears that bought Lenscrafters instead of Luxottica. Thats a whole segment of the population that you have no chance of getting into your offices. At least when we bought them we opened Eye Med to everybody which was not the case before that. Do you think that Sears and Cole Vision would have done that? Unlikely.

    One last thing and I will jump off my soap box. You say you are disappointed about the vertical integration and getting into the retail side of business. Personally I wish we were back in the old days when things were much simpler but Lux did not start this trend. I can tell you about a meeting that I was at in Scottsdale, AZ in 1990 when Claudio Del Vechio, who ran the business at the time, got up as said "mark my word, in less than 5 years VSP will be in the frame business". Guess what, they got into our business, copied our frames and gave them to you for free. You readily accepted their generous offer and instead of buying a Carlos from Lux you got the Carlos knock off from Altair and didn't have to pay for it unless you sold it. You may not like Del Vechio but he's no dummy. He saw the writing on the wall and made his move.

    Sorry for being a wind bag. I hope some of you come to Vegas for Expo. Look me up, I actually love discussing this subject. I'll leave you with this. Stop listening to reps from other companies who think they know what we are doing. If their business was any good they wouldn't have time to worry about us.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    I was never a big believer in "trickle-down economics".

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    One of the worst people here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy Canty
    I was never a big believer in "trickle-down economics".
    Niether am I

    Too many flaws

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    Who said anything about trickle down economics. Eye Med will give you $10 just for filing a claim online. Thats $10 hard cash for every claim. What other frame vendor is doing that for you. Geez I guess its true, you can give somebody a gold bar and they'll still find something wrong with it. You can continue to moan and complain all you want but if you want to do something about your bottom line the tools are there to help.

  19. #19
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Thanks for the straight-forward talk, Angels.

  20. #20
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Freebie give away.............

    Quote Originally Posted by Angels Rock
    Eye Med will give you $10 just for filing a claim online. Thats $10 hard cash for every claim. What other frame vendor is doing that for you. Geez I guess its true, you can give somebody a gold bar and they'll still find something wrong with it. You can continue to moan and complain all you want but if you want to do something about your bottom line the tools are there to help.
    Angels Rock................. I just loved your speech on your previous post. You put up some really good arguments for your employer, .......guess thats why you got sent this way.

    Above quote deals with a $ 10.00 handout.......a freebie....hard cash and so forth.

    I have learned along the way that there are NO freebies in this world and have never been in the business community. Everything is calculated into the selling price somewhere along the line and into products sold. Anybody getting a $10.00 of hard cash has to pay back in some other form and shape.

  21. #21
    35yroldguy
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    Experience really counts and also what your real investment is!



    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser
    Angels Rock................. I just loved your speech on your previous post. You put up some really good arguments for your employer, .......guess thats why you got sent this way.

    Above quote deals with a $ 10.00 handout.......a freebie....hard cash and so forth.

    I have learned along the way that there are NO freebies in this world and have never been in the business community. Everything is calculated into the selling price somewhere along the line and into products sold. Anybody getting a $10.00 of hard cash has to pay back in some other form and shape.

  22. #22
    Master OptiBoarder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser
    I have learned along the way that there are NO freebies in this world and have never been in the business community. Everything is calculated into the selling price somewhere along the line and into products sold. Anybody getting a $10.00 of hard cash has to pay back in some other form and shape.
    It seems we always gravitate back to the Lux issue. The proponents have strong arguments and will not be dissuaded no matter what. The proponents argue is "I think the question you need to ask is "does participating with Eyemed (selling Luxottica product) put money in MY pocket?" This is a short sighted way of thinking. The issue is not only how much working with Lux puts in your pocket; the issue is how much do you put in their pocket and how much of that goes to advertise and try to take your market share.

    Think of this as a trade embargo against an evil empire in the world. Yes it would be more convenient not having one because you have to find alternative sources, but the purpose is to have that evil empire changes its course of action. Today Lux has 20% market share. What will that be in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years?

    There are many global and historical examples we can draw on (which I will not do) that proves boycotting Lux and every division from their company would have an affect. But Lux knows that their are many optical people willing to do business with them so they have no reason to change their direction.

    All the businesses participating in Eyemed, buying Lux frames is handing Lux a free market/demographic report which will help them plan their expansion. From a business (and military standpoint) it is a brilliant plan. Lux is not an evil empire, they are growing because of the support they receive by non-Lux companies.

    Doc

  23. #23
    Bad address email on file Mikef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocInChina
    It seems we always gravitate back to the Lux issue. The proponents have strong arguments and will not be dissuaded no matter what. The proponents argue is "I think the question you need to ask is "does participating with Eyemed (selling Luxottica product) put money in MY pocket?" This is a short sighted way of thinking. The issue is not only how much working with Lux puts in your pocket; the issue is how much do you put in their pocket and how much of that goes to advertise and try to take your market share.

    Think of this as a trade embargo against an evil empire in the world. Yes it would be more convenient not having one because you have to find alternative sources, but the purpose is to have that evil empire changes its course of action. Today Lux has 20% market share. What will that be in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years?

    There are many global and historical examples we can draw on (which I will not do) that proves boycotting Lux and every division from their company would have an affect. But Lux knows that their are many optical people willing to do business with them so they have no reason to change their direction.

    All the businesses participating in Eyemed, buying Lux frames is handing Lux a free market/demographic report which will help them plan their expansion. From a business (and military standpoint) it is a brilliant plan. Lux is not an evil empire, they are growing because of the support they receive by non-Lux companies.

    Doc
    Don't take this the wrong way but BLAH BLAH BLAH

    Lenscrafters spends a certain % of its gross sales on advertising.
    Luxottica knows every demographic in every town.
    They can't afford to open stores on every street corner because they would not make any money.
    They need independents to reach the other 80% that they can't.
    If a new mall opens up in a busy area Lenscrafters will be there.
    Simple business.

  24. #24
    Bad address email on file Mikef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser
    Angels Rock................. I just loved your speech on your previous post. You put up some really good arguments for your employer, .......guess thats why you got sent this way.

    Above quote deals with a $ 10.00 handout.......a freebie....hard cash and so forth.

    I have learned along the way that there are NO freebies in this world and have never been in the business community. Everything is calculated into the selling price somewhere along the line and into products sold. Anybody getting a $10.00 of hard cash has to pay back in some other form and shape.
    But

    Luxottica product is on average about 15 to 20% cheaper than companies like Safilo and Machon.
    If you join Eyemed you will see more patients and make more money and so will Luxottica.
    If you join Eyemed and buy Luxottica product you will see more patients and make even more money.

    IF you buy frames you can get and extra $10 for every Eyemed patient that buys any frame Lux or not. 100 claims = $1,000

    IF you increase you Lux business from the previous year you can get up to 7% back in free frames.

    Bottom line is your bottom line is better.

  25. #25
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Gee, 7% in free frames...slowly and inexorably filling your available board space with Luxottica product and squeezing out other vendors. It has been my experience that no one makes serious money from insurance plans except the company shareholders.

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