How to hurt Luxottica?

[rep]

OK..so I re-read this thread now that I am in the independent arena...

Some of the things that got to me...

Mention was made several times in the beginning about the $10 for filing claims online.. NO ONE mentioned that to qualify at years end you have had to spend $100 with luxoticca for each Eyemed claim for the past year. If you filed 200 claims, that is $20,000 in Lux product..

Two, on comparing manufacturers, I actually get better pricing from Safilo than I do from Lux on comparable lines.. such as Claiborne compared to Anne Klein, and the Armani lines compared to Versace and Versus..

We have been debating about working with Eyemed since about 15% of our patient base will be switched to it at the beginning of the year. Some things that concern us is this the manipulation that is being played out with these incentives.. and the way the chains Lux owns are plastered all over the Eyemed website, the materials sent to the members, etc.. We doubt that we would get much new business from the deal..but would like to be able to continue to serve the same people we have been seeing for the past 15years.

Tough decision...

Cassandra

I don't know where you are getting your information but I am e-mailing you the correct information on the integeration of Cole contracts and the Extra 10 programs.

You do not have to purchase any frames to join Eye Med.

However if you want to get ADDITION reimbursement of $10 per qualified claim you can by purchasing Luxottica product. That is purely OPTIONAL and not a requirement.

Regarding pricing in comparison to Safilo. Luxottica offers 10% discount on designer and sunglass products and 20% on core products. In addition they offer 2% for prompt pay discount (Safilo does not offer prompt pay) Luxottica also offers an additional 5% in free Frames IF you purchase as little as 10 frams per month. That's a total of of 17% for designers and sunglasses and 27% on core line products. I have never seen Safilo give discounts across the board to everyone in this range.

If you add the additional $10 per claim that is an additional 7.5% discount (on a $75 frame. Total discount on designers and sunglasses = 10% discount + 2 percent prompt pay + 5% in free frames + $10 cash = 24.5% off the price of the frame. (core products would be 34.5%)

Are you getting 24.5% from Safilo on designer product? (34.5% on core)

No you can't get this if you only order the occasional Carlos or Ray Ban but if you do the same amount of business with Lux you currently do with Safilo . You come out way ahead of the game.

Luxottica Rep

[QDO1]

Sounds like you US independants need a organaisation like SightCare - which was set up in the UK primarily as a buying group, but now provides support, products and training across the board for UK independants

have a look at:

http://www.sightcare.co.uk/

It is a sweet philosophy, and makes good business sense

[Jubilee]

However if you want to get ADDITION reimbursement of $10 per qualified claim you can by purchasing Luxottica product. That is purely OPTIONAL and not a requirement.

Luxottica Rep

I never said that you had to buy the frames in order to participate.. what I said was that in order to get the extra $10 for filing online, you had to buy the frames. No one in the converation in May/June ever mentioned this. They were claiming it was an incentive to get people to file online..

Who said anything about trickle down economics. Eye Med will give you $10 just for filing a claim online. Thats $10 hard cash for every claim. What other frame vendor is doing that for you. Geez I guess its true, you can give somebody a gold bar and they'll still find something wrong with it. You can continue to moan and complain all you want but if you want to do something about your bottom line the tools are there to help.

But

IF you buy frames you can get and extra $10 for every Eyemed patient that buys any frame Lux or not. 100 claims = $1,000

But you have to spend $10,000 in Lux product..and with the discounts.. that is even more board space/frames.

Hi Chris,

As far as freebies go, you are right. There are no freebies. This is nothing more than trying to entice you to come over to our way of thinking. And why not, nobody else is giving you $10 for anything. It's the same concept that VSP used to get you to file claims online. Do it online and get a couple extra bucks reimbursement, do it manually and lose that incentive.

Please tell me you can see where this is misleading..

To get the right sense of scale in your head.. I work for an OD who isn't out to get rich. He just wants to make a decent living while having supporting and spending time with his family.

Not counting the Davis and Medicaid towers, we have about 200-250 frames we carry in stock. We average about 20 jobs a week (in this office). We are heavy into Insurance, and only one third get frames every year. So I would say we sell at most 8-10 frames a week. That is with having a doctor there only 2 days a week. He is at a second office two other days a week. We do work basically banker hours, though Mon and Tues we work late by appointment. We are switching from ordering via rep visits to replacing what sells from the board.

If we take Eyemed.. and file an estimated 150 claims, that is $15,000 in Lux product.. If we go with the current brands we carry, Anne Klein, Versus, Versace, Vougue and Rayban ophthalmic, we are talking about a commintment of 270 frames to get that incentive. So roughly 40% of our mix would have to be Lux.. and stay Lux.. Compared to our current 20% That is a HUGE chunk in a small office. I would have to basically promote the LUX products to get the amount of turnover needed to generate the desired outcome..

I know we don't have to sell Lux or carry Lux to participate in Eyemed.. But I can see how some people would easily not think it completely through and realize that to get the extra $1500, your practice has to spend that and an additional $13,500. Plus with the free frames, and discounting.. it is easy for a smaller office to all of a sudden become part of the Luxottica Machine..Might as well be a franchise..

Cassandra

PS: I do agree that this is better than the previous requirement to purchase the same amount of frames... It might work for some bigger practices, and heck we may get into it ourselves depending on a few factors.. but it is scary to see how easily the private practicioner can become so dependent on Lux.. I just know we can't afford to reap all the benefits of this "Exciting benefit".

[Mikef]

You only get $10 for claim is the patient buys a frame. (ANY FRAME)

You could see 200 but only 50 count!

Your rep should know how many you have to date and how much you need or don't need to but to make it!

YOU DON"T HAVE TO BUY ANYTHING THOUGH AND YOU DON"T HAVE TO TAKE EYEMED

IF you were on Eyemed 2 years ago you would have had to buy the frames and get nothing. Now you have a choice and IF YOU CHOOSE to buy the frames you can get money back.

As far as Safilo goes: Unless they are giving you 30 or 40% off I think are prices a less across the board! I know Safilo core product is about $10 more than Luxottica core.

[Chris Ryser]

MikeF must be out of breath............................

Lux is now the give away corporation.................should bring in a lot of customers

[Mikef]

MikeF must be out of breath............................

Lux is now the give away corporation.................should bring in a lot of customers

And you are never out of breath!

[rep]

I never said that you had to buy the frames in order to participate.. what I said was that in order to get the extra $10 for filing online, you had to buy the frames. No one in the converation in May/June ever mentioned this. They were claiming it was an incentive to get people to file online..





But you have to spend $10,000 in Lux product..and with the discounts.. that is even more board space/frames.



Please tell me you can see where this is misleading..

To get the right sense of scale in your head.. I work for an OD who isn't out to get rich. He just wants to make a decent living while having supporting and spending time with his family.

Not counting the Davis and Medicaid towers, we have about 200-250 frames we carry in stock. We average about 20 jobs a week (in this office). We are heavy into Insurance, and only one third get frames every year. So I would say we sell at most 8-10 frames a week. That is with having a doctor there only 2 days a week. He is at a second office two other days a week. We do work basically banker hours, though Mon and Tues we work late by appointment. We are switching from ordering via rep visits to replacing what sells from the board.

If we take Eyemed.. and file an estimated 150 claims, that is $15,000 in Lux product.. If we go with the current brands we carry, Anne Klein, Versus, Versace, Vougue and Rayban ophthalmic, we are talking about a commintment of 270 frames to get that incentive. So roughly 40% of our mix would have to be Lux.. and stay Lux.. Compared to our current 20% That is a HUGE chunk in a small office. I would have to basically promote the LUX products to get the amount of turnover needed to generate the desired outcome..

I know we don't have to sell Lux or carry Lux to participate in Eyemed.. But I can see how some people would easily not think it completely through and realize that to get the extra $1500, your practice has to spend that and an additional $13,500. Plus with the free frames, and discounting.. it is easy for a smaller office to all of a sudden become part of the Luxottica Machine..Might as well be a franchise..

Cassandra

PS: I do agree that this is better than the previous requirement to purchase the same amount of frames... It might work for some bigger practices, and heck we may get into it ourselves depending on a few factors.. but it is scary to see how easily the private practicioner can become so dependent on Lux.. I just know we can't afford to reap all the benefits of this "Exciting benefit".

Your calculations a way way too high because you still don't understand the program. Only claims where you sell a frame ( any frame) is qualified for the extra 10. So far the numbers have been averaging from a low of 20% to a high of 50% in offices YTD

Taking your own numbers ,even at the high rate of 50% of your claims you would not have to change your mix of product at all because it would stay at 20% That is not a hugh chunk in a small office and is not unreasonable at all. Is it???????

In fact you havent thought it completely through. You would be getting an additional $750 and not change anything you are currently doing in your office, except take Eye Med.

You should however consider increasing your inventory with Lux so you can get the Eye Med extra 10 and the PFG Free Frames or Cash. If your numbers are accurate you could qualify for PFG by purchasing only 27 more Lux frames over a one year period or about 2 per month. What that means is that if you purchase 27 more frames in your office over a years time, they will give you 9 more free at then end of the year.

Small offices need every bit of available income to survive. By not accepting Eye Med patiets and participating in PFG, based on your own numbers, you are missing $750 in Extra 10 cash and 9 Free $75 frames with a value of $600. Not to mention the $7500 in Exam Fees (150 x $50).

Do you really think this is an unreasonable and misleading program now that you know the facts?

Rep ( Luxottica)

[Angels Rock]

Hi Cassandra,

You have taken a few of my quotes out of context without including the entire thread which was posted earlier. I explained in an earlier post the evolution of Eye Med and the frame requirements. It had gone from needing 200 frames to having to purchase $100 worth of product for every patient you saw over 26. That way if you were not seeing any patients there was no requirement. It changed again except now there are no frame requirements BUT if you want to earn $10 per filed claim with a frame sale the same $100 in product for every patient over 26 applies. Sorry if I confused you, it was not my intent.

As far as Armani/Emporio and Claiborne prices being less than Versace/Versus and Ann Klein I think you should check your prices again. I am looking at the latest frames price book and there is a considerable difference. I won't post the prices here but check out frame fax for yourself. Drop me a line if you dispute this.

[Jubilee]

It may be cheaper if I buy more of your product or whatever.. All I can tell you is that based upon visits and purchases this past month with both lines currently Safilo is the least expensive. Of course we aren't Eyemed providers, so no discount for that, and my rep has never explained how we could get an extra 9 frames if we buy 7 more. My take on our last visit was that my office is small potatoes for one line, and the other lines the reps haven't even bother to call or follow up. I also don't have any frames backorded through Safilo period, and the never ending "it will be two more weeks" really gets annoying from Lux.

I understand that Eyemed doesn't require frames. This is the upteenth time I have posted this statement. What I have said, is that for a smaller office, if we take Eyemed, we can run into trouble with our mix becoming predominantly LUX product. That is if we tried to take advantage of the extra ten. Which I know isn't required.. but some people, will not think through the full proccess of wanting to capitolize on this.

With all the discounting etc.. We are looking at 2-3 frames being purchased per claim. If I have 10 claims for a month that had a frame purchase. To get the extra $10, I would have to purchase roughly 25 frames to qualify. But, I only sold 10 frames. So now I have 15 extra. If this happens every month, then in a year, I will have an extra 180 frames in LUx product over what I normally sell a month. IN order to compensate for this, I will have to push lux, as it is now rougly 3/4 of my product mix. Of course, if it sells, then I will be tempted to buy more.. if not, I am stuck with product that I can not return..and we all know how you reps don't win from an exchange either. Based on this scenario, all of the budget I have for frames will be used on LUX and more. (I don't get a grand a month to spend on frames.) And please note we are talking about not gaining any business, just keeping the ones who are set to switch to Eyemed come Jan.

IF you or Rep, or MikeF.. who ever wants to send my email something better than what is posted on the Eyemed site explaining "all the benefits" Eyemed has to offer.. then fine. I would be more than happy to share that with the Doctor, and read all of the lovely details. Please note that we have not decided if we are going to say yea or nay to this plan.. just some concerns we are having.

Your support for your company is admirable. Just please realize that not everyone feels your passion.

Cassandra

[Chris Ryser]

Your support for your company is admirable. Just please realize that not everyone feels your passion.
Cassandra

Never forget that any promotion or freebies is not really what the other side says.

There no freebiees in the business world..............when they say they give you............you should always know that somehow you have already pre-paid in advance for whatever that is free.

[QDO1]

Im not sure this forum is the place for a thread: "How to hurt Luxottica". If the Thread was: "How to hurt whatever comany it is you work for" you would all feel different about it

[drk]

Well, I've come full circle on this thread.

Just heard that one of my city's top 3 employers (a financial mega-giant) has made the decision to buy Eyemed for the employees this year. I'm sure this company got a bargain (at least this year ;) ), considering how Luxottica probably undersold VSP by 20% to get the contract.

Now, the Eyemed sales force can go other local employers and show their "trophy", for maximum sales effect.

Sure worked for me, too. I face losing a large chunk of control of my local marketshare, if I don't work with the Luxmafia.

SOOOOO...I'm signing up. My strategy has been to stay tough until it hurts, then cave like a spineless jellyfish. That time has come.

I will still try "to just say no" to Luxottica product, however. (I wonder how long I will have that option, eh Guido?)

P.S. In unrelated events, my favorite indy lab was sold for big-bucks to Essilor. Owner's a millionaire, now (liquid millionaire).

Independence is getting costly. If one wants to be truly independent, truly,one will have to be willing to stay small, offer deluxe service, and charge high prices for this "different" service, and hope there is a market to appreciate it. You will have to say no to third party.

[Spexvet]

I just got tagged with negative reputation for a post in this thread from May, by some coward who wouldn't identify him/herself. That's the sort of people who are pro-Luxottica.

[Chris Ryser]

Im not sure this forum is the place for a thread: "How to hurt Luxottica". If the Thread was: "How to hurt whatever comany it is you work for" you would all feel different about it

This thread was started long before you started to participate and the optiboard.

As you have your chains in the UK they have them in the USA

However the maojor chains have been bought by LUX who is now directly competing with independent retailers................while coming up with lots of goodies to convince them to continue using their products. Lux controls over 30% of the US retail market.

If you go into the archives of this forum you will find the periodic Lux bashing thread popping up periodically. Some body brings it up and then it continues until it dues off.

[Mikef]

This thread was started long before you started to participate and the optiboard.

As you have your chains in the UK they have them in the USA

However the maojor chains have been bought by LUX who is now directly competing with independent retailers................while coming up with lots of goodies to convince them to continue using their products. Lux controls over 30% of the US retail market.

If you go into the archives of this forum you will find the periodic Lux bashing thread popping up periodically. Some body brings it up and then it continues until it dues off.

His point was (I think) that you would not appreciate it if someone messed with you income.

It would be like if someone started a thread like : Why is OMS the 4th most visited opitcal site in optical yet seems to do no business. Does this mean other compaines are much better? But I would not do that. Since I work for a vendor I TRY not to bash other vendors. I think being positive is a much better way to live!

[Chris Ryser]

His point was (I think) that you would not appreciate it if someone messed with you income.

I think you do not understand the point I made. It boils down to saying that Lux gets bashed once in qhuile on the optiboard. Here is what he said:

Im not sure this forum is the place for a thread: "How to hurt Luxottica". If the Thread was: "How to hurt whatever comany it is you work for" you would all feel different about it

Of course MikeF comes out of bed early morning and is getting ready to face customers and doing his exercise of defending his points on poor old Chris Ryser.

PS. I guess you dont appreciate that a small company has 2 websites among the first 10 best ranked ones, while his conglomerate employers site limps behind.
:D :bbg:

[EyeManFla]

We have had a situation here where three of the top five employers in my area switched to Spectera, not Eyemed!
And the only Spectera provider here is Super Wal-Mart.

[Mikef]

I think you do not understand the point I made. It boils down to saying that Lux gets bashed once in qhuile on the optiboard. Here is what he said:



Of course MikeF comes out of bed early morning and is getting ready to face customers and doing his exercise of defending his points on poor old Chris Ryser.

PS. I guess you dont appreciate that a small company has 2 websites among the first 10 best ranked ones, while his conglomerate employers site limps behind.
:D :bbg:

Two questions for you Chris!

First why have you listed Costa Del Mar and not Oakley, Maui Jim, Ray-Ban, Revo sites or even Marchon?

Would you rather own web page that had 11,000 visitors a day and did little business or own a web page that had smaller traffic and did much more business?

[DocInChina]

First let me say that I admire how Lux penetrated the optical market. Second, I am sure that the people working for Lux are proud to be part of it and do not want their income affected by any other person's comments or business.

That being said the economic reality is that Lux is a threat to independents. There is no other way to look at a 30% market share (and growing). There is no possible rationalization you can give to say that Lux is there to help independents no matter how you slice it. Likely there is nothing that can be done at this point by independents to prevent the expansion of the goliaths in the optical market unless they change their buying habits.

I understand why someone would bristle at having their company spoken about negatively. However, no where on this board have I seen someone say Lux products are terrible or their service is awful. What has been said is that Lux is a threat. I do find it offensive that a swipe has been taken by a large company rep at a small company with regards to the business they do.

Doc

[Mikef]

I understand why someone would bristle at having their company spoken about negatively. However, no where on this board have I seen someone say Lux products are terrible or their service is awful. What has been said is that Lux is a threat. I do find it offensive that a swipe has been taken by a large company rep at a small company with regards to the business they do.

Doc

So what you are saying it is ok to bash big companies but not small ones.

I try not to bash any vender or get into others venders business as much as possible.(It's kind of a conflict of interest) I was trying to prove a point. I don't plan to bash again.

There are about 6 regular Luxottica bashers that bash everytime these threads start.


PS. And by the way I was not bashing Chris I was just using him as an example. I have no Idea what kind of business he does. He could be the Bill Gates of Canada for all I know!

[DocInChina]

So what you are saying it is ok to bash big companies but not small ones.

If the big company is looking to control the retail market, wholesale market and insurance plans then I say yes it is OK to bash it. Lux owns 70 retail shops in Hong Kong and this past summer they bought ~150 store chain in mainland China. If you were able to look objectively at Lux's global plan and not as an employee of their company you too would consider Lux a threat to independent minded companies and people.

PS. And by the way I was not bashing Chris I was just using him as an example.

It certainly looked like Chris bashing but I will assume I misinterpreted. This can happen online frequently.

There are about 6 regular Luxottica bashers that bash everytime these threads start.

When I was single (a long time ago) and doing the bar scene with bar hopping buddy, he used to say "...any PR is good PR. You only have to worry when they stop talking about you. " :bbg:



Doc

[Mikef]

If the big company is looking to control the retail market, wholesale market and insurance plans then I say yes it is OK to bash it. Lux owns 70 retail shops in Hong Kong and this past summer they bought ~150 store chain in mainland China. If you were able to look objectively at Lux's global plan and not as an employee of their company you too would consider Lux a threat to independent minded companies and people.






Doc

I would agree with you IF Luxottica was opening new stores and not just buying ones that are already there.

I have Said this before : In eastern MA. in 1994 we had 31 Lenscrafters. Then Lenscrafters bought about 15 Eyeworlds. Today we have 29 Lenscrafters. Every few months the smaller locations close and that left only the highest volume account.

If Luxottica did not buy them would it better for independents. Nobody knows.

If highmark or Safilo bought them would Independents be better off?

If Lencrafters starts opening stores in small towns and lower volumes areas then I might change my tune. But it has been 10 years.

If Luxottica bought every chain in the world that had over 15 stores would that hurt independents.

I just have'nt seen how it has hurt.

[DocInChina]

I would agree with you IF Luxottica was opening new stores and not just buying ones that are already there.

I have Said this before : In eastern MA. in 1994 we had 31 Lenscrafters. Then Lenscrafters bought about 15 Eyeworlds. Today we have 29 Lenscrafters. Every few months the smaller locations close and that left only the highest volume account.

If Luxottica did not buy them would it better for independents. Nobody knows.

If highmark or Safilo bought them would Independents be better off?

If Lencrafters starts opening stores in small towns and lower volumes areas then I might change my tune. But it has been 10 years.

If Luxottica bought every chain in the world that had over 15 stores would that hurt independents.

I just have'nt seen how it has hurt.

If Lux buys existing locations it does hurt the independents. A certain percentage of gross dollars are allocated towards advertising. The larger a chain grows, the more dollars they have for national/regional advertising. Period. Lux did open new stores in Manhattan where there were no previous locations. I am sure there are other people on here that can give info about their regions and report if this happened with Lenscrafters where they are based.

Again, you are in a pretty good position regardless of what is said in this forum. Until the independents stop buying Lux product and supporting Lux programs then all this talk is an effort in futility.

Doc

[Chris Ryser]

Two questions for you Chris!
First why have you listed Costa Del Mar and not Oakley, Maui Jim, Ray-Ban, Revo sites or even Marchon?

Would you rather own web page that had 11,000 visitors a day and did little business or own a web page that had smaller traffic and did much more business?

Two answers for Mikef.......................

If you would verify before making incorrect statements I could take your statements and post's with a larger grain of salt.

Obviuously you have never checked my listing containing 421 Optical Websites from top to bottom or you would have kept your comments for yourself. (http://optochemicals.com/web_ratings.htm) Everybody I could find is on it including many supplied by optiboard members for which I am thankful.

To the second question................

Advertising success in magazines, newpapers, TV as well of websites is guided by the law of average.

The more poeple look at it, the more popular a website.

The more popular a site is, the more people that want to find you can find you easily because of good indexing.

There are websites that are selling sites with shopping carts and secure areas with for credit card payments.

Then there are informative websites, that explain products, the way they work and what they do.

My website is my on-line catalogue. Now that you have not been able to fully check out one only page you for sure have not checked out my full site.

I dont think that you can be a qualified judge on website quality as you judgments seem to be on the weak side.

Obviously if a website has little traffic by law of average it also produces little sales as only a very small percentage of visitors actually are buyers. Webmaster all around the world are fighting to improve their sites in traffic, visitors and page views, which is the ultimate goal.

I could probably double the rankings of your LUXOTTICA site in a 3 month period by doing what they are missing out.

[Chris Ryser]

As an addition to prevuious post I would like to add...........that my offer to improve your company website would not be as a donation..............