Lens groove dimensions ("standard"?)

**yamazakikenken** · 05-05-2005, 12:39 PM

All,

Just registered on this board looking for quick info (not in the biz). I have been looking for a new set of frames, but found nothing that appeals to me. I saw one or two I liked about a year back, but apparently they aren't made anymore (?). So, I have decided I am going to make my own frames. Can someone tell me any "standard" dimensions I will need to incorporate into the design? I suspect the lens groove should be a bevel of ? degrees and a depth of ?.?mm, but I am having trouble finding the actual numbers. Any other dimensions that are standardized that I will need to know? I can easily get workable dimensions from my old glasses, but I would probably destroy that frame in doing so, which I don't want to do!

Thanks,

- Sean

**yamazakikenken** · 05-05-2005, 02:47 PM

I should add I will be making my own FRAMES ONLY. I will NOT be trying to make my own lenses. I've grown quite accustomed to seeing, and I wouldn't risk damaging that to save $ or for any other reason.

**OPTIDONN** · 05-05-2005, 07:06 PM

hmm...I guess if you are making them for your self go to town and be creative. You just need to make sure that they can securly hold the lens in place, withstand the mounting process (putting lenses in the frame), and that they can
be adjusted with out breaking.

**yamazakikenken** · 05-05-2005, 07:45 PM

Thanks, OptiDonn. I figured about 90 or 100 degrees X 2 or 3mm ought to work. I just wondered if there were standardized dimensions that would make it easier for the optician to make and fit the lens for me (apparently there are not). When I told my optometrist I was thinking of making my own frames, he mentioned something about be sure to put the right bevel in there, or something like that, and to have a clamping feature. He would then take the frame and do the rest.

My plan is to use a CAD model I'm working on to cut foam pieces on a CNC milling machine for trial fitting, and then CNC mill the final version of the frame from a block of magnesium or aluminum.

I was originally thinking of making carbon fiber frames, but it is just too brittle. When a CF piece breaks, it breaks into very sharp shards, and I don't want that anywhere NEAR my eyes.

**OPTIDONN** · 05-05-2005, 07:57 PM

Frames are a bit more complicted than expected. Are you going to use nose pads or a saddle bridge? make sure that it fits well on the nose or it may end up getting sore. When you talk about 2 or 3mm are you talking depth or width? As far as width you really do not need to go any wider than 1.5 to 2mm. And depth you could go 1 to 1.5mm. You want to make sure that there will be no lens movement. It it wiggles back and forth thats no good. Differant materials generaly have differant bevels. I can't recall exactly what angle metal's is.
Are you going to make temples? If you do make sure that you add pantoscopic tilt. That is the bottom of the frame angles towards your cheeks by about 10 of 15 degrees. I am not 100% about the specs but I am sure that some one else here is. Let us know how they turn out and if you have any more questions.

**OPTIDONN** · 05-05-2005, 08:01 PM

I think that aluminum would be a good choice considering frame in the 50's, 60's and I think even the 70's were aluminum. It wont carrode too much from the skins oils. If you can get your hands on an old frame or something look at all the subtle contours and curves they are there for a reason, to be visualy pleasing and provide 'natural' vision. Wow I am getting kind of psyched about this I really really want to see what they look like when your done. I think you can post the picture here I am not sure.

**chip anderson** · 05-05-2005, 08:12 PM

Why not take a lens off of your edger and measure the angle the stone put on it? Use that angle and depth.

chip

**OPTIDONN** · 05-05-2005, 08:15 PM

hmm...I uh...I...hmm...yeah uh...I never thought of that:hammer:

**Jason Carruthers** · 05-05-2005, 10:26 PM

Sean, my honest advice. If you are simply excited by the challenge of using your CAD skills to make a real frame, then go for it. If your main concern is to have the best result then I would say keep looking around. Companies spend years developing frame designs (or just days copying a design). Either way, it will fit better than your first "project".

If you decide to go for it, I think the bevel dimensions would be: one-half millimetre from base to apex with the apex being a 90 degree angle.

**Chris Ryser** · 05-06-2005, 03:31 AM

Make you frame.........................let the optician and the optical lab worry about the mounting side. A good one will always find a way of doing it.

**Lawrence Yau** · 05-06-2005, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by yamazakikenken

All,

Just registered on this board looking for quick info (not in the biz). I have been looking for a new set of frames, but found nothing that appeals to me. I saw one or two I liked about a year back, but apparently they aren't made anymore (?). So, I have decided I am going to make my own frames. Can someone tell me any "standard" dimensions I will need to incorporate into the design? I suspect the lens groove should be a bevel of ? degrees and a depth of ?.?mm, but I am having trouble finding the actual numbers. Any other dimensions that are standardized that I will need to know? I can easily get workable dimensions from my old glasses, but I would probably destroy that frame in doing so, which I don't want to do!

Thanks,

- Sean

As I know, there is no standard dimension of the groove depth.

**Jedi** · 05-06-2005, 11:44 AM

An alternative to a "standard" frame with a bevel. Would be a thin sheet of stainless steel or beta titanium (0.5mm) laser cut to a shape you want. Nosepads could also be cut out with the shape and bent to fit. The temporal ends of the front could be bent and a non-spring hinge can be used to attach a temple. Lens fabrication would be done by increasing the diameter of the lens shape by 1.0-1.5 mm and grooving the lens by roughly the same amount. Two german lines use this as a basis from their frames Ic! Berlin and Mykita.

**Jedi** · 05-06-2005, 11:56 AM

Another thought, with Lenscrafters going through changes, you might be able to pick-up one of their coveted, "noggin caliper" to get specific head measurements for your frame. :bbg:

Now that I think about it, i'm not sure if i'm jesting or being serious.

**Chris Ryser** · 05-06-2005, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by TOPSKYINT

As I know, there is no standard dimension of the groove depth.

Thanks Lawrence................Of all the posting's on this subject you have now the answer of a frame manufacturer

**JERRY HUANG** · 05-06-2005, 09:46 PM

yamazakikenken,

Make 30 cutters first before making any frame!

CNC spindle RPM = 8,000
CNC routing travel distance per min. = 24 inches per min with 4 flu. Cutter (wet). Z axis depth = 0.08 mm per cycle.
Cutter v groove depth = 2.5 mm as final result will be 2.2 mm after tumbling and polishing.
Use 400 grits, 600, 800, and then 1,000 sand paper to get rid of CNC cutting marks.

Are you going to mill with 2-D or 3 D process?? I mean how do you plan to create the bridge curve and lens curves forming?? milling or press forming??

**Chris Ryser** · 05-07-2005, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by JERRY HUANG

Make 30 cutters first before making any frame!

Just dont believe all this B...............s. 50 years ago I made a frame by hand out of genuine turtle shell where I had to steam 6 pieces of the matching colors together in order to be able to make a piece large enough to make the front.

The ools to cut it out was a hand jig saw some sand paper and an elctric buffer wheel.

These guy's above are loughing at you and have no idea that it can actually be done by hand.

**JERRY HUANG** · 05-07-2005, 06:03 AM

Right! Another option-----DESIGN your frame by CAD, and put one of Chris's fingers secures with ER-16 collet on your CNC, then you should be able to MILL frames in any curve :bbg:. Free form instant prototyping 2005!:D :D :D

Make sure to slow down your spindle RPM while Chris's finger wrapes with sandpaper.

**OPTIDONN** · 05-07-2005, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Chris Ryser

Just dont believe all this B...............s. 50 years ago I made a frame by hand out of genuine turtle shell where I had to steam 6 pieces of the matching colors together in order to be able to make a piece large enough to make the front.

The ools to cut it out was a hand jig saw some sand paper and an elctric buffer wheel.

These guy's above are loughing at you and have no idea that it can actually be done by hand.

Back in my day we made frames from the bone of an injun! We did'nt have your fancy e-l-e-c-t-r-i-c-t-y! We had to chew the shape of the frame with our teeth! In the dark!

Cmmon Chris with the technology today it is quicker to use a CAD . A they just want to make sure that the lenses will fit. Nothing wrong with that and I didn't think that anybody was laughing at anybody. I think that the key word was 50 years ago! Much has changed since then

**Lawrence Yau** · 05-07-2005, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Chris Ryser

Thanks Lawrence................Of all the posting's on this subject you have now the answer of a frame manufacturer

:hammer: Just try my best to answer.
In fact, I had answer similar question to my partner when I just entered to optical industry. the answer is same as what I post. But if the glasses is used for safety, it need to complied to ANSI standard. I forget the exactly code. it seem to be z87.1. One part is High velocity impact test.

I'm at home now. Just have some quarrel with my partner about the Nov exhibition. Therefore, no mood in these few day:( .

**Jacqui** · 05-07-2005, 09:52 AM

My feeling is that if he wants to make his own frame he should. Why not?? Maybe if he does he'll learn something and more importantly maybe we will. I made several back in the 70's from parts and peices of old frames, still have some around somewhere.

**Chris Ryser** · 05-07-2005, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by OPTIDONN

...................... I think that the key word was 50 years ago! Much has changed since then

If you would still be able to make and obtain genuine turtle shell and make frames with it, you could not apply any of your mentioned modern technology.

In order to make a blonde frame,yellowish without any black spots which is the most expensive version in spectacle frames, you would have to choose small parts of the shell, cut them out grind an angle and fit the next little piece. Wrap some cloth around it, wet it and apply an iron hot clamp that would produce steam which then fused the pieces together without showing the seam, if properly done.And on and on until you a piece large enough.

A frame like that used to cost a fortune then and I would say it probably would be more than $ 5,000.00 in todays money.

If any of you guy's and girls ever come across a genuine turtle shell frame at a garage sale, dont even try to bargain, pay what the seller wants because you just found yourself one of the rarest jewels in the optical business.

And when you talk about that much has changed, nobody knows better than me. After all I just invented a new lens tinting system a few years ago, you can tint poly and high index to dark shades in just 4 to 8 minutes, something you can not even dream of when using your old fashioned dirty and smelly tinting unit in your lab in the back of the store.
The US army and navy has changed to my system after many month of testing because it faster and non toxic. I even got patents to show for it.

I might remember how to make genuine turtle shell spectacle frames by hand, but I live in modern times and act accordingly. So you can make as much fun as you want...........the old guy can still show you the ropes in this profession.

**OPTIDONN** · 05-07-2005, 01:50 PM

I am just giving you a hard time Chris. I honestly think that making a frame from a turtle shell is an amazing feat. I think that if you could still do that you could have quite a profitable side business. And I did'nt mean to make fun its just when I saw that post it made me laugh and I could not resist. :cheers:

**OPTIDONN** · 05-07-2005, 01:52 PM

ps- after all you are the 'old optician' and I am the 'punk kid' its my job to give you a hard time lol:)

**Chris Ryser** · 05-08-2005, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by OPTIDONN

ps- after all you are the 'old optician' and I am the 'punk kid' its my job to give you a hard time lol:)

OPTIDONN, you are forgiven.

When the "punk kid" will have a few more years on his back and has spent a lifetime in the same profession, maybe also widely diversified as I am lucky to be, you will have some expirience that the new generations will have no notion about.