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Thread: Ripped Off!!!

  1. #1
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    Angry Ripped Off!!!

    I have tried to get a working pair of progressives for 2 months, without success. I paid $400 (!) for a pair of Optima lenses that have so much abberation as to be unuseable. (My vision is -6.5 and -7) My old prescription cost me $250 for 2 pair with frames and I can still see better with them, even though the script is bad. I had them re-done after carefully explaining to the pompous **S what the problem was. I told him the optima lens was at fault but he replaced it with another Optima!! In trying to get this issue resolved, I called another store of this small chain, wanting to talk to the boss. Was called back and was told that I really wanted the Hoya Wide, but it would cost me another $150, making the total $550 for one pair of lenses!! I just got off the phone with another shop that would give me the same lens for $175!!! I have read almost every post on this site trying to learn for myself what lens would be the best for my particular prescription. It seems that you all have your favorite brands that you like to fit. I haven't found anything to sway me one way or the other. To those of you that say they are all alike, you are dead wrong! I have worn glasses for 50 years and progressives for 10 and I'm here to tell you that they are not all created equal!!! Is there any of you out there that is high myope and wearing progressives that would care to recommend something that will work??? You all have your favorite brands but haven't told me what works in my case. You have me totally confused. Any recommendations as to how to get my money back from the con artists I have been dealing with? Is there anyone in the city of Phoenix that is to be trusted or that really knows how lenses perform in real life??? Do I seem a little frustrated?? I don't mind paying a FAIR price as long as I get my money's worth. I do expect to get quality for $400, not platitudes.

  2. #2
    One of the worst people here
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    It is too bad.

    However, to be fair to Optima, it usually is not the lens, but the fitter.

    Hope you find better success with someone else. May I suggest an independent optician.

    Good luck

  3. #3
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    Myops are harder to please.................

    Quote Originally Posted by zappedguy

    I have read almost every post on this site trying to learn for myself what lens would be the best for my particular prescription. It seems that you all have your favorite brands that you like to fit.
    1)Myops, as you are one of them, are much harder to please. They can take off their glasses and look at any detail like a microscope. Therefore an optician should take measurements and make double sure that everything fits 100%.

    2) All this near religious behavior of many optiboard actives of preferring one brand over the other is all big BS as these lenses all come with very minimal differences and are basically all the same, and the whole hype is marketing, advertising like you see in the drug industry.

    3) If an optician is not able to fit you with one brand, he will not be able to fit you with another mostly out of one major reason..........which is ......he or she is not capable, because you are more difficult than the normal run of the mill patient, and have to be fitted.......totally right.

    As For Life said above find yourself an optician who has a "diploma" hanging in his store proving that he knows what he is doing.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  4. #4
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    Do you think the problem is the lens material or the progressive design? What progressive brand were you wearing previously? What lens material? Could it be the Rx? What does your eye care professional think? These are all things that you should consider.
    If you were happy with what you were wearing, choose the same options, just with the new Rx.
    A good choice, if you want a good value, is the Varilux Panamic in 1.67 index, with Crizal Alize Anti-reflective coating. It's a great all-purpose progressive design, a very thin, light lens material (but not the thinnest - that would be the Hoya product recommended to you), and the AR coating will reduce the "coke bottle" look of your lenses.

    Hope this helps.
    ...Just ask me...

  5. #5
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    I agree with the others. Make sure you're seeing a good Optician that can check your lens materials, bifocal measurements, pd measurements, etc to insure a proper fit. Although I believe in some progressives over others, Chris is right, you shouldn't be experiencing what you are if the lenses are fit properly. Good luck.

  6. #6
    ATO Member OPTIDONN's Avatar
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    That is a shame that they are not working out. You could try the same style of progressive lens that you were wearing before. There are distinct differances between progressive addition lenses (an A.O. Compact is very differant than a V.I.P.) I have always found it best to keep patients in what they are used to wearing. Another thing that you can do is take your glasses to another optical place and have them check the material, lens design, fitting, measurements. It is not their glasses and they not there remake so they will be very honest. Plus knowing that these are not working out they may go the extra mile to satisfy you and make you a customer for life (try the indipendants they tend to care more as a rule of thumb).:hammer:

    Hope this helps!

  7. #7
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    Dear Zappedguy,
    I'm an optician (20 + years) and a myope / presbyope (approx. -6.00 with +2.50 add) so I can relate to your problem. Here's my 2-cents worth, and this is pretty much what I tell my patients.
    Amoung today's progressive lenses, none of them are BAD. They all have slightly different characteristics and you may find some to be more compatible with your individual seeing habits. With your prescription, my preference is usaullay a higher index, 1.67 or Hoya's 1.70 lens. These are more costly and of course the AR coating (recommended) adds more to the cost.
    That said, the success of wearing your lens depends much more on 1) the correct prescription, and 2) correct measurements and fitting. Especially for someone who has successsfully worn progressives before, I would think that you would be able to adapt to most progressive designs if those two criteria are met.
    Find a GOOD optician in your area and you should find satisfaction.
    Good luck,
    Rich

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich
    That said, the success of wearing your lens depends much more on 1) the correct prescription, and 2) correct measurements and fitting. Especially for someone who has successsfully worn progressives before, I would think that you would be able to adapt to most progressive designs if those two criteria are met.
    Find a GOOD optician in your area and you should find satisfaction.
    Good luck,
    Rich
    I second this post and hope you are going to believe sound reasoning and expirience.
    Chris Ryser
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    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  9. #9
    OptiBoardaholic
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    Isn't this the third time in the past 60 days that Optiboard has address the same complaint from the same person?

  10. #10
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    1968 Is correct...........

    It would appear that zapped has failed to follow any of the advice he has been given in the past 60 days.He may have gone to the well once to often.
    It would appear he is interested in slamming a product which is against posting guidelines. If this redundancy continues it will be dealt with in a manner proscribed. I would be interested in what concrete steps "zapped" has taken to solve his problem besides complaining here.

    Good Call '68-
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  11. #11
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    I am not trying to slam a product. I am an irate customer who is not being listened to. I spent $400 for a pair of lenses - no frame! I have been refracted 3 times. The script is good! The lenses seem to have been fitted well by the diploma'd optician. (looking straight ahead gives me the best distance vision) I have been wearing PALs for about 10 years with no problems. I am intelligent enough to recognize lens aberation. These lenses are so bad that I can't focus on the entire screen of my 32" tv across the room. I have to move my head to be able to read all the small text on the TV.The focal "sweet spot" is miniscule compared to my 8 year old lenses. Anything outside of the sweet spot is distorted, not just out of focus. Yes, I am picky but am realistic as well. My 8 year old lenses have a sweet spot 3 times larger and the periphery is de-focused, not distorted! I don't know what my previous lens was - there are no discernible markings. Some of you - Chris notably- insist that all lenses are the same, if fitted correctly - others have said just the opposite. From my experiences in the past, I know that the lens material makes a difference and from what many of you have said, the style makes a difference as well. My main issue is that the optician did not listen to me. I told him the lens was not working in my prescription and told him I wanted the Zeiss Brevity (chosen because someone here said it was a true short corridor giving a wider distance and wider reading area than other styles). He instead just re-made the lenses from Optima, thinking I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Would you pay $400 for a pair of lenses that are worse than your 8 year old lenses?

  12. #12
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    Arizona is a licensed state......

    and opticians are subject to regulations. If you feel you have been unfairly treated, lodge a complaint either directly to the board of registration (by mail), or to your state's secretary of consumer affairs (also by mail).Perhaps I would go first to the optician in question and demand what you ordered. (Ziess) If he fails to comply follow the advice above. Once a complaint has been lodged it will be investigated and followed through to your satisfaction. (Ususally by either refund or compliance) The point I was trying to make above is that your complaint cannot be solved here. With all due respect, you have all the advice in this thread alone to solve it, it so please to not start another thread on the same subject.
    Thank you for understanding.
    hj
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  13. #13
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    zappedguy, folks here have pretty much helped you as much as they can. Without seeing your old glasses, your new glasses, the frame adjustments, your prescription and frame and you in person we can't really help you any further. Anything else is just guessing.

    There are a number of parameters that can create issues with your vision. Without being there there's no way to tell what's really going on.

  14. #14
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    Hc and Jo are right, there's unfortunately not much we can do here, although we all try to help. It's hard to get accurate advice over the internet, especially in this type of circumstance. My suggestion repeats Hc, lodge a complaint and move on. There's not much else you can do but be very picky in choosing your next Optician.


    Good Luck

  15. #15
    SuperRefractor jtart2's Avatar
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    Add power went up!

    The true problem with your new SRx is that you went from 8 year old lenses, with a low add power & little distortion, to a lens with more add power, which creates more peripheral vision distortion & less visible area. Any lens you wear is going to give you the same result. It's a matter of increased add power. You old add power was probably something like +1.25, and your new add is probably +2.25. That's a big difference. The other factors can cause lots of problems too, (type of material, type of lens brand). But the things you describe are related to ADD Power!!!

  16. #16
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    Problem solved.............

    Quote Originally Posted by jtart2

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,something like +1.25, and your new add is probably +2.25. That's a big difference. The other factors can cause lots of problems too, (type of material, type of lens brand). But the things you describe are related to ADD Power!!!
    Good post. Problem solved.

    Either
    patient gets used to it or has to switch to ST28
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtart2
    The true problem with your new SRx is that you went from 8 year old lenses, with a low add power & little distortion, to a lens with more add power, which creates more peripheral vision distortion & less visible area. Any lens you wear is going to give you the same result. It's a matter of increased add power. You old add power was probably something like +1.25, and your new add is probably +2.25. That's a big difference. The other factors can cause lots of problems too, (type of material, type of lens brand). But the things you describe are related to ADD Power!!!
    Good assessment. It seems zappedguy is also saying that he saw better with the old glasses. I think his refraction was correct technically but the script given was wrong. If he had a refracted add change of +1.00D with minimal near complaints, I would have only upped his reading add by 0.50. This would improve his clarity without all the side effects of a +1.00D increase. His doc should have him hold the reading material with his old Rx in his adapted reading distance and hold plus lenses over the reading area at the adapted reading distance. Keep adding plus power until it blurs or becomes slightly uncomfortable at the adapted reading distance and drop it 0.25 from there. This way zapped will not have an adaptation problem and he will be prescribed the maximum plus comfort lens power.

    Doc

  18. #18
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    I think this patient ripped himself off by waiting 8 years between exams and new lenses- I think we, the eye care proffesionals need to do more in the way of stressing regular eye exams, and eyewear updates. I bet this person had their annual dental exams, and just think how many teeth have you got, and what happens if you lose one?? We only get one pair of eyes.
    "Check Yearly See Clearly"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by spexer
    I think this patient ripped himself off by waiting 8 years between exams and new lenses- I think we, the eye care proffesionals need to do more in the way of stressing regular eye exams, and eyewear updates. I bet this person had their annual dental exams, and just think how many teeth have you got, and what happens if you lose one?? We only get one pair of eyes.
    "Check Yearly See Clearly"
    Of course it is our duty to educate our patients about regular eye examinations. Clearly he would not have had these complaints had he been examined yearly and had gradual Rx changes every couple of years. That being said, it is still our professional responsibility to take all these factors into account when prescribing so that our patient has minimal symptoms when going through the adaptation process.

    Doc

  20. #20
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    I agree his Dr.and Optician did a very poor job in learning his history and educating him on adaptation problems. There is no substitute for common sense. I call on hundreds of ECP's who are not taking the time to educate the consumer on regular exams, but will complain that business is slow. I find it interesting, but not suprising that this person noted how much he spent for his glasses and that he was ripped off, when in fact his inability to take care of himself was the major contributor to his faliure to be succesful with his new glasses.
    How much should good vision cost? that may be a topic for another thread.

  21. #21
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    Interesting question for Docinchina...

    What is better for the patient here, bring up to required correction in increments of say 6 month intervals at 400 bucks a pop, or to tell the patient to stop using 8 year old glasses and bite the bullet and wear the Rx HE told the doctor HE saw better with. Tough call but the title of this thread is "ripped off " and I haven't seen enough evidence of that.....other than the optician not giving him Zeiss lenses, for which there is no good explanation. How did zapped determine they weren't Ziess anyway? If he knew what the trademark for them was,and by his own description he is a layman, methinks legs are being pulled.
    Last edited by hcjilson; 03-09-2005 at 11:34 AM.
    "Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
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  22. #22
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    I think all that can be said has been said. We cannot troubleshoot specific customer problems without access to the customer, then glases and all the facts. This cannot be done over the web.

    Zappedguy, you have gotten all the advice you can from this source. We cannot fix this for you. Good luck.


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