Lenscrafters return policy...am I a potentially bad customer?

[drk]

Over 4 billion dollars a year is walking out of independent OD's and into retail chains. Some offices don't take the time when they have the patient to enumerate the options and get them excited enough about the purchase to stay there. Even the way the office is set up can work against them.

So true. While there are only a few OD's that post here, the wholesale optical labs should really pay attention to this:

Optometry is changing, and for the worse. More and more, especially with the bad taste of online CLs, OD's are trying to distance themselves from "selling" anything. I can't disagree strenuously enough.

For opticians: there is a big opportunity emerging. Remember the days of non-dispensing ophthalmologists? We will see a trend towards that in optometry. There are ways to take advantage of that.

Of course, ophthalmology dealt with the issue long ago, and have come to understand that providing optical services is appreciated (at least by the patient and some employed opticians:) ), but it will take optometry many years to get back to that mentality. We're going through a phase of self-loathing, right now.

[Cowboy]

The way I see it, this industry is not that much different than the psychology industry. The one difference is that we sell tangible products. We have to use psychology to get a consumer to believe we, he, she, they, etc., are better and why x-y-z products are better. Example of theory, why would one person buy glasses from wal-mart but one would by from you? Psychological reasoning. The consumers react in different manners based on stimuli. Walmart advertises low Prices, you advertise professional, courteous, high quality services, etc. The name of the game is how many are convinceable to you and those who are swayed by the savings.
Service is a by-product to a sale. The very first delivery of the sale is you and your location. You have to play psychologist to get into someones head to make them believe you are the best before they pick up the phone. Then it is up to you to make the experience the reality.
When we offer refunds, exchanges, no-cost services, etc.,these are the by-products of service and the extended perception the consumer made the right choice......or not. There is no competition but your own.
:cheers:
Cowboy

[Chris Ryser]

So true. While there are only a few OD's that post here, the wholesale optical labs should really pay attention to this:

If you follow the news and press releases on the optical business you would have seen that:

LUXOTTICA has just purchased the majority of the largest retail chain in the far east.

ESSILOR has just added another major wholesale lab in the USA

ZEISS just ha completed the purchase of SOLA

VIVA Internayional has just been sold to a health care provider

MOULIN is just buying another major retail chain

All this over a very short time period

The retail world is changing fast and neither Optometrists or Opticians will be independent 15 years from now.

[drk]

15 years?

Chris, I don't see it.

There is an argument that independent labs may be gobbled, but that's mainly due to the extensive technology that will dominate the field in the future. You can centralize "manufacturing", if you will.

The "retailers" of health care will always need to be smaller and dispersed to penetrate the marketplace. Consumers aren't going to drive to a central mega-optical.

As long as technology demands expenses aren't prohibitive, the independent will survive and thrive.

[Chris Ryser]

As long as technology demands expenses aren't prohibitive, the independent will survive and thrive.

I hope you are right.........maybe even under total commercial dictatorship some independents will survive if they purchase from the dictators and sell at prices they are told to.

Look at Canada's healtcare which has become a commercial dictatorship. My family doctor now works 2 month and then takes off 1 month. If she would work the third mont in a row she would earn above the set income cap and not get paid and have worked for nothing.
So lots of doctors in Canada work only 2/3rds of the year. Many move to the USA which provides better income. My doctor wanted me to get an EKG done by a heart specialist who gave me an appointment 8 1/2 month ahead. I could actually drop dead of a heart attack without having had any advance warning.

You will most probably now argue that this is a government problem, which is true. But if a profession is in the hands and controlled by a couple of major corporations on a world wide basis they will become their own government and start laying down the rules.

[drk]

Superb point, friend.

[Spexvet]

The doctor here is scheduling cataract surgeries for September. In America. Granted, it's not life or death, but it's still a long way away.

[DM777]

I work for LensCrafters and there are times when I wish there wasn't a 30 day return policy. I have seen this policy abused several times by people who go to an independent or other chain, order glasses they have to wait a week for, but then they come to us and get a pair in an hour to wear until theirs comes in, then they bring it back and return it (all the while exclaiming they were returning because we were too expensive). But we take it back and smile because that's the policy.

We encourage our customers to try something different, to see their glasses as accessories. This is the main reason for the 30 days. It also allows them to experience the benefits of having multiple pairs and see what works best for them.

As far as what happens to the frames and lenses once they are returned. Some are put back on the shelf with new demo lenses. Some are donated to Gift of Sight. It depends on the condition of the frame and the length of time the customer had it. Some customers return them as soon as they put them on their face and see themselves clearly for the the first time. We sell all of our frames off the shelf so most have been tried on before anyway. The lenses get thrown away unless they were part of a donated pair.

As for the LC bashing, the opticians in my store were all independents at one time. They have been with LC for several years now and brought several loyal customers with them. They are happy with LC and enjoy many benefits that I'm sure most people wish they had: paid vacation time, medical, dental, vision, 401K, company funded pension, just to name a few.

So don't knock us because one day you may have to eat your words.

The first thing I learned in business was to never burn a bridge!!!

[Chris Ryser]

There has to be a difference in frame cost too.
Rep

Most probably discontinued frames dumped to LC at regular wholesale preice and sold dirt cheap to independents.

[Johns]

As far as what happens to the frames and lenses once they are returned. Some are put back on the shelf with new demo lenses. Some are donated to Gift of Sight. It depends on the condition of the frame and the length of time the customer had it. Some customers return them as soon as they put them on their face and see themselves clearly for the the first time. We sell all of our frames off the shelf so most have been tried on before anyway. The lenses get thrown away unless they were part of a donated pair.

I hope that the consumers that visit this site are taking notice of the recurring admissions by LC employees that they do indeed sell used products. Trying a frame on, walking over to a mirror, and then taking it off is not the same as wearing it for several weeks, and the returning it. Oils and other bodily fluids do get absorbed into the noespads, as well as the temples in some cases. I'm sure the next post will be saying "We ALWAYS change the temple tips and nosepads!", just like a few months ago the posts were,"Lenscrafters would never sell used frames!"

[DM777]

Oils and other bodily fluids do get absorbed into the noespads, as well as the temples in some cases. I'm sure the next post will be saying "We ALWAYS change the temple tips and nosepads!", just like a few months ago the posts were,"Lenscrafters would never sell used frames!"

A few months ago we didn't sell a frame that had already been used. This is something new that has come about. Whatever you may think, we don't get as many frame returns as we do lens exchanges which is also part of our 30 day guarantee. People who want to try a progressive don't like it and want single vision is just one on the many exchanges we do in which case the frame the customer purchased would be reused again anyway. So there is about 1 "reused" frame to every 100 new ones on the floor. Also as I said before we do take into account the time the frame has left the store. I doubt very seriously that someone who had the frame for a week or less wore it very much to begin with. I can't speak for other LC stores but at ours it doesn't go back on the shelf unless it was purchased within the last 7 days in addition to meeting other guidelines.

As a former Sunglass Hut employee (many, many, years ago, long before it was owed by Luxottica), they too have always put their returned sunglasses back on the shelf. It never was an issue with the customer there.

[fjpod]

I ask you...what consumer knows how to state his prescription as " -5.25 OU"?
I'm sure I'll get a burning reply.

[LENNY]

Doc! You are goooood!


U stands for Kosher? and O?

[Sherri Cole]

Junebug, I wish you would return those glasses. As Opticians we discuss raising the bar for Optics and the hope that our industry will return to be perceived as the medical profession it should be.
Lenscrafters advertisements of this "no if ands or buts" return policy is a disgrace to our profession. Go get your glasses from an independent Optical where our profession is still respected.

[Eyecing]

I work in a small town for an independent optometrist. The other day we had a patient in the dispensary looking at the designer frames. After spending 20 minutes complaining about how high our DKNY prices are, she left the shop with her prescription- bound for a large retail chain (who shall remain nameless here) where she could get her glasses for a "reasonable price." Our Luxottica frame rep happened to be in the office during this tantrum and, once the unhappy patient left, the rep laughed and shook his head. "She'll be back within two days. I supply frames for ___________ and I know for a fact that your prices are significantly lower."

He was right. This patient has already referred three patients to our office and a fourth is scheduled later this week. All of these customers have been driving over 40 miles for "better prices." ;)

Anissa

[shellrob]

I think the perception is that because those offices are in malls or because they advertise so much, they must have lower prices. Of course we all know that isn't true.

[Lyrix76]

Junebug,

Please spread the word! I try to tell my patients this, and they think I'm giving them a line just to make a sale!

Thanks,
Spexvet

O.k. so I'm not saying that I, as a Lenscrafter's associate agree, at all with our pricing, but as a well rounded individual in the optical industry, I would like to say that we WILL let you come back within those 30 days, & either refund your money, or re-manufacture either new lenses, or replace the frame/lenses, if you aren't completely satisfied with them. How many optical companies out there, can really say that they would re-do the spectacles within 30 days? Maybe that's yet another reason why Lenscrafters/Luxxoticca has been mainly taking over many of the other optical chains/companies? I would never think to own my own business with the way that the mom & pop stores are going, and all because of huge titans, such as Luxxottica, taking over everything. Maybe everyone else should think to provide the same true 1 hr. service for most orders, with a 30-Day guarantee & A ONE YEAR BREAKAGE PROTECTION PLAN, just in case something should happen to the customers specs. Maybe then, Luxxottica wouldn't be so high & mighty, it's all because every other store lets them be. So please think about that everyone.

[Jubilee]

O.k. so I'm not saying that I, as a Lenscrafter's associate agree, at all with our pricing, but as a well rounded individual in the optical industry, I would like to say that we WILL let you come back within those 30 days, & either refund your money, or re-manufacture either new lenses, or replace the frame/lenses, if you aren't completely satisfied with them. How many optical companies out there, can really say that they would re-do the spectacles within 30 days? Maybe that's yet another reason why Lenscrafters/Luxxoticca has been mainly taking over many of the other optical chains/companies? I would never think to own my own business with the way that the mom & pop stores are going, and all because of huge titans, such as Luxxottica, taking over everything. Maybe everyone else should think to provide the same true 1 hr. service for most orders, with a 30-Day guarantee & A ONE YEAR BREAKAGE PROTECTION PLAN, just in case something should happen to the customers specs. Maybe then, Luxxottica wouldn't be so high & mighty, it's all because every other store lets them be. So please think about that everyone.

Uhmm... ok.

We will work with our patients who aren't satisfied. Heck we have even refunded money before. You aren't the only ones who are doing this. However, you will find that if you work with your patients, form a relationship with them, and spend time walking them through everything, 99.999% of the time satisfaction will already have been guaranteed.

We will remake the lenses if there is a change. If you want to upgrade you pay the difference same as LC.

LC has money. That is why they are buying everything up. When you have a vertical monopoly, it makes it even easier.

If you were in private practice, you would see how much those lenses cost from the lab. You would be well aware of how much a lab costs, and having to watch every dime to make it work. or maybe I should charge the same as LC and raise prices by 35%.

As far as the BPP. Lux frame carry a two year warranty on them. What happens if a person's temple breaks after 90 days at LC. Why it is a BPP and you get to pay 50% of costs. After a year, it is outside of warranty period. The person buys them from me, and I will replace them for $10 to cover shipping and handling.

So maybe it is an abuse situation. I have packages available that include a two year, two time replacement on lenses.. and unlimited on frame. Still better than 50% of cost.

My hubby still works for LC, and even with his associate's discount, I can get frames cheaper than him using mine..

One hour processing..yes that is a convienence to the patient. However, even LC has shifted away from this to promote their AR and other specialty items. My understanding was when they shifted to Ready when promised, they were expecting at least 50% to not want 1 hr.

My special orders, including AR, are a week. Yours are 3.

Don't get me wrong. LC has its place. They do a lot of things right. However they also do a lot of things not so right. I am glad you enjoy it there, and loyal. Just becareful where it gets ya, and don't mention the Optiboard to them.

Cassandra

[ilanh]

Personally I find it despicable to try to return a custom-made item simply because you found it cheaper elsewhere. That is pure and unadulterated wastage, and eminently unfair to the seller. Personally I have no qualms about returning items that I buy but I would never, ever return a custom item (REGARDLESS what their assinine policy is). Incidentally, I have a very generous return policy (3 months) and will work like hell to make the client happy; I would remake specs up to three times at a personal loss just to make sure that they leave happy.... but I would never refund a single dime because the customer "found a cheaper pair elsewhere".

[Chris Ryser]

... but I would never refund a single dime because the customer "found a cheaper pair elsewhere".

There should not even be a refund..................there should be a replacement only in cases of a defect or wrongly made Rx within a short time frame.

You people are bending backwards to attract customers with warranties that are totally crazy instead of publisizing better quality work. :D

[Lyrix76]

Uhmm... ok.

We will work with our patients who aren't satisfied. Heck we have even refunded money before. You aren't the only ones who are doing this. However, you will find that if you work with your patients, form a relationship with them, and spend time walking them through everything, 99.999% of the time satisfaction will already have been guaranteed.

We will remake the lenses if there is a change. If you want to upgrade you pay the difference same as LC.

LC has money. That is why they are buying everything up. When you have a vertical monopoly, it makes it even easier.

If you were in private practice, you would see how much those lenses cost from the lab. You would be well aware of how much a lab costs, and having to watch every dime to make it work. or maybe I should charge the same as LC and raise prices by 35%.

As far as the BPP. Lux frame carry a two year warranty on them. What happens if a person's temple breaks after 90 days at LC. Why it is a BPP and you get to pay 50% of costs. After a year, it is outside of warranty period. The person buys them from me, and I will replace them for $10 to cover shipping and handling.

So maybe it is an abuse situation. I have packages available that include a two year, two time replacement on lenses.. and unlimited on frame. Still better than 50% of cost.

My hubby still works for LC, and even with his associate's discount, I can get frames cheaper than him using mine..

One hour processing..yes that is a convienence to the patient. However, even LC has shifted away from this to promote their AR and other specialty items. My understanding was when they shifted to Ready when promised, they were expecting at least 50% to not want 1 hr.

My special orders, including AR, are a week. Yours are 3.

Don't get me wrong. LC has its place. They do a lot of things right. However they also do a lot of things not so right. I am glad you enjoy it there, and loyal. Just becareful where it gets ya, and don't mention the Optiboard to them.

Cassandra

O.k., so I never said L.C. was perfect, & since I haven't nor will I ever mention Optiboard at my job, it's only fair of me to say that the only reason I'm staying at L.C. is just until I get my license :). I worked in wholesale for half of my career & trust me, I know the markup on both lenses & frames. I'll be the first one to tell you that our prices are RIDICULOUS! I never said they weren't. What I will say is, that it doesn't take my particuliar store 3 wks. to get in AR special order lenses, it takes maybe 2 wks. at the most. I also never said I enjoyed it there lol, it's my stepping stone & that's all it ever has been. Also, the only loyalty I have are to the people I work with & not for, it's become a second family for most of us. I do believe in the customers, & want to help them, I sometimes feel like we're ripping them off (but don't quote me on that ;) ) So I'm basically going to search for a company that doesn't rake people over the coals & work for them instead. I'm glad that your husband likes his job, for obvious reason's I'm leaving my name out of this, but I can say this I CAN'T WAIT TO LEAVE!!!!!!!!! With that said, as long as the customers are happy, I'm happy & alot of them that I help (can't speak for all our other associates) come back just to see & deal with me & that makes me happy. So Happy Optics to you, & it's always nice to know that I'm not the only one in the business with alot of the same feelings when it comes to markups :D Stay Well

[orangezero]

I'm just a little surprised at the outrage LC workers are having with customers taken advantage of this policy. If you advertise it, over and over, expect it to sink in.

Don't you think someone somewhere thought that perhaps it would drag the whole rest of the optical community down with it, and independent opticals would suffer, but also other places with lower margins (such as walmart, sams, etc) would suffer as well. Isn't it a win/win??

I think it just plain stupid, but the people making these marketing decisions don't have anything to do with any of the three O's... They don't care if its a tractor, or a pair of glasses, or a Tshirt. All they have to do is find a way to sell it and beat the competition. Professionalism (and I don't mean this as a knock on anyone working at LC) doesn't ever enter the picture.

I hope this doesn't sound to conspiracy theory... but big hitters like luxottica, sadly, know what they are doing. Whether it be to detriment of us all or not.

I know the place I'm working at know is stupid enough (or smart, who knows) to agree to this policy as well, but they try like heck to get the patients into something different.

Despite it being said continuously, don't buy luxottica frames, its just suicide in the long term. Does Royal Crown Cola buy Coke products???

[Chris Ryser]

................................, I sometimes feel like we're ripping them off (but don't quote me on that ;) ) ........................I can say this I CAN'T WAIT TO LEAVE!!!!!!!!!

This just about say's it all for one LC employee.

Often selling discontinued models at high prices they can afford to have a liberal refund policy that must even include the price of the lenses.

[tara]

Did you know that the company allows people to return the glasses at their own associates risk. The associate gets councelled if they are receiving to many returns. It is calculated under the remake report. They must find a way to do it right the first time or..... Also when those returns come through the frames go back on the board if they look like they can be salvaged. The customer is getting used glasses at that point with an unused price.

[Chris Ryser]

The customer is getting used glasses at that point with an unused price.

That could be grounds for another Lux and LC bashing if it stands up.

Arn't they also selling returned frames taken back by reps from independents in their stores? :hammer: