...from taking on Trivex lens materials? i.e. cost, happy with current materials, performance, etc. Please go into detail. It seems that Trivex is such a good lens material, yet a small percentage of eyecare professionals are using it regularly.
...from taking on Trivex lens materials? i.e. cost, happy with current materials, performance, etc. Please go into detail. It seems that Trivex is such a good lens material, yet a small percentage of eyecare professionals are using it regularly.
I like Trivex, but I just cannot find a place for it in my office.Originally Posted by Karlen McLean
The only time I uses it is for flat tops for drill mounts or to produce a thinner lens. The reason why I use it in this case is because other suppliers tend to order their flat top lenses from someone else and the lenses already have SRC, so I cannot get them AR coated, but Trivex doesn't.
However, Trivex just does not have a place with me. Its price is relatively expensive, and I can get poly for much cheaper. If it had a price closer to CR-39 I would use it a lot more. I am happy with poly, and Trivex just does not give me any additional benefits.
We're seeing a slow increase in it's use (Trivex up, Poly down). I agree with For Life, I think it's the price
I have a question, doesn't Essilor have ownership in PPG and how much?
Karlen, when I present it on calls (which I do all the time as it is my favorite and the lens I wear most often) here are the objections I hear most
poly is cheaper (and thinner)
most patients don't have problems with poly
it's not available in their favorite PAL
I am one of those people that sees the chromatic abberation in poly so this is definitely my lens of choice but in higher powers patients notice the thickness difference if they switch from poly to Trivex. I have a low power and would prefer to see better so it's an easy choice for me.
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Scratches too easily. I have had great success with 1.6 in drill mounts. Rarely use poly, except in polarized sunglasses - use those a lot!
We do quite a bit of single vision trivex since we have a lot of metalgrooved frames, I have been pretty happy with it over and our retailprice is only $15 more than NL1 hcc. I do also like Hoya's GP wide andSummit CD, so prog wearers can use trivex as well.
Exactly! Thank you, Karen. :)
Personally i think its a great material and i sell it on a regular basis, it is available in my favorite progressive the shamir genesis... its great with drill mounts... has the highest impact resistance and great optics... granted its not as thin as poly or as cheap as poly... so we charge about $35 more than poly retail and i dont fit it in anyone over -3.00... does anyone know if its available in stock lens yet?
I get my Trivex stock lenses from http://exceliteinc.com/
Good service. Tell them I sent you.
Ms. Jacqui Pearson
CEO and Janitor
C.D. Optical
Trivex and Spectralite are the two premier mid-index lenses. One could easily argue that Trivex is better than Spectralite.
The problem isn't with Trivex, per se. It's about mid-index lenses. What do you do with them?
It can't compete with high index, because it's not thin enough.
You can't really position it as the poor man's high index, because polycarbonate fills that niche.
You can't even position it as a better general purpose lens for low Rx's, because whatever negative optical qualities polycarb does have, it doesn't show up in low Rx's. And polycarb is cheaper, leaving more money to spend on coatings.
The truth is, mid-index lenses are niche products. They're somewhere between high index and CR-39 in their properties, essentially. If I had a visually sensitive person, especially in higher powers, I'd go to Trivex over CR-39.
So that's it: Trivex for people who are visually picky.
(A little known fact, though, is that on high plus, aspheric Trivex would probably be a better choice than aspheric poly, due to optics and possibly weight. Index is not as big a factor in high plus as asphericity. Possibly another niche, but that's not exactly marketable.)
(One other possible niche, as Billy Brock would testify to: it's a great material to do fancy things with.)
We use quite a bit of trivex. It is available from Hoya as stock. They call it Phoenix and is available as stock with Clarity or Hi Vision AR. I don't remember the stock range, but it is pretty decent.
We use it as much as possible instead of poly. We like the fact that it has better optics. We also like the fact that if you order it through Hoya it comes stock with a warrented 2 year scratch coat. Retail for us it is actually $10.00 cheaper than poly with a 2 year scratch coat. We also have a fair amount of referals from pediatric Opthomologists in our area. With their blessing we have been able to fit their patients in this material and include the scratch coat. Of our impact resistant lens sales we probably do 70% trivex and 30% poly.
For our adult high power myopes we prefer hi index plastics to poly simply because of the optics.
Personally I was never able to wear poly. The fuzzy optics and chromatic abberation drove me crazy. I can wear trivex and have several frames that hold the Summit ECP and the Image. I'll admit that my own experiences with both lenses is responsible for my presentation of lens choices.
I hope you are all having fun and making money!!
Framebender
If you are talking about 1.67 it has the same abbe value as poly.
Abbe is chromatic aberration only. There are more to optics than abbe.
I don't believe Essilor has any significant stake in PPG (actually I don't believe they have any stake in PPG). However Essilor and PPG jointly own Transitions, I believe PPG has the majority share at slightly above 50%.
Okay thanks - I was just working on a conspriacy theory. I do know that Essilor owns 49 percent of Transitions.
Yeah, but what other factors ARE there, and what data is available to compare?
Poly is only for children and athletic goggles. The optics stink. Poly is the poor man's thinner lens. Although we always present the best product first i.e. High Index typically, < +1.00 to -2.00 Cr39, +1.25 to +3.00 and -2.00 to -6.00 aspheric mid index you give up some ct to poly but the edges are compareable and the optics are way better >+3.00 and > -6.00 High Index. I explain alot to patients who come in with " ya know those FeatherWates(tm) lenses form LensCrafters" that they are cheating themselves out of better vision and mostly when they get their new glasses they agree.
I have yet to find any negatives concerning this product. I think the market resistance has more to do with the commitment that the major lens manufacturers, and chain retailers have made to polycarbonate.Trivex arrived long after polycarbonate on the time line, and it has an uphill climb not made any easier by the fact the majors own polycarb facilities.
If PPG wants to make an impact, they need to do what Essilor, LensCrafters, and Transitions have done.They've got to make the case for Trivex with the wearing public.If the customers are asking for it, the retailers will come around quite quickly.
The post above this one is a case in point. K123.....said"Poly is only for children and athletic goggles." Why did he/she say that? I think its because safety is the first consideration for poly......yet Trivex is more impact resistant and not by a little, by a significant factor. Yet poly was mentioned first, even though the optics were less than desirable.(Opinion repeated not neccessarily mine)Thats because poly got there first.
To counter that, the same effort that the poly folks put into educating the eyecare pro's (who prescribe) and the consuming public (who dictate what is purchased) must be put into the promotion of trivex.I have not checked this so it may not be accurate, BUT, take a peek at the list at the courses offered at the coming VEE. Is there ONE about Trivex???Same goes for the Ophthalmology and Optometry meetings.(I have checked course offerings at the Ophthalmology mtg in New Orleans Oct 04) If it is prescribed, I guarentee that market share of this superior product will increase.
Karlen, will you be at VEE?
PS thanks for the plug in Jan issue of ECB :o
Last edited by hcjilson; 02-08-2005 at 09:38 PM. Reason: addendum
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
I'm a first timer, so I hope that I get the reply thing right. i have a lot of catching up to do so I'll try to keep it short (not). :)
I agree with the optics argument. Optics is king, especially for us optical geeks. What about overall performance for the patient. This is what the patient realy cares about. It would be nice if they replaced their glasses (lenses) every year, but the reality is that they hold on to them for over 2.4 years? UGLY lenses! Next to CR39, Trivex is one of the best materials to apply SRC and AR coatings to. One of the main reasons patients "hate", and we've all heard them say "I don't want that coating - it comes off", AR coatings is because of poly. It is the worst culprit for defective AR. We all agree that the best performance comes from glasses with AR, that's why we wouldn't wear glasses without it for ourselves.
Make the investment today for your patients. If you don't they'll become someone else's patient down the road. That someone else will be the one that does embrace new technology for the sake of performance and talks about it!
Oh yeah, by the way, Trivex doesn't suffer from stress cracks when drilled and the holes will not expand after a year or so of use (especially important for the new Silhouette type bush mountings).
Whew!
Canuck, you got through your first post with flying colors! Nothing to it! congratulations!
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
Absolutely no hold back for me from the very first day Trivex hit the market....... my personal opinion is Trivex benefit's far outweigh any concerns raised by the "P" question.
Case and point: I was standing on the ramp at an airport when someone called for me to watch out as they were backing out an airplane. I turned around just in time to take the trailing edge of a metal wing right in the face. The impact put me flat on the ground with little stars floating around my head. If my Trivex lenses and Tura frame would not have taken the brunt of the impact, my injury may have required stitches from ear to ear. An ice pack held down the swelling and butterfly bandages held the cut together. Bottom line even though one lens had a huge crater all the way across, it was still intact and totally functional.
THANK YOU PPG, HOYA & YOUNGER for allowing me the privilege to personally wear Trivex products. You have developed a material that raises the bar in our industry for safety,optics AND ECONOMY ! I fear to think of the price this accident could have cost me in places other than my wallet. Holding back because of $$$$, how can a few cents ever be placed on the value of the only pair of eyes I have ?
I'll post a photo of the glasses when I get back in the office.
Billy
Billy, don't forget to put in a photo of "Pete's Speed Bump" if you can find it. If not I may be able to find mine. :):) hj
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
As a rule we are basicaly being offered the choice of poly vs. trivex. As a wise man told me (my Dad) you put the plus attributes on one side of the scale and and the attributes of the other, on its side, then the negatives. When you compare the two, the benefits of Trivex just plain ol' outweigh the benefits of poly. We offer Trivex for that tier of lens product for that reason.
By the way, Trilogy and Trivex materials are REALLY taking off recently. They are growing faster than ever worldwide. Materials in our industry take awhile sometimes to reach "escape velocity" and it appears Trilogy type materials have finally started to reach this.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks