It's not for everyone, but neither is opera, and we don't try to outlaw that, do we? I know people are offended by homosexuality (male or female), but how does it negatively effect you, personnally?
It's not for everyone, but neither is opera, and we don't try to outlaw that, do we? I know people are offended by homosexuality (male or female), but how does it negatively effect you, personnally?
I figure that lots of Americans believe that if homosexuals are allowed to marry, they'll be having homosexual kids, and before you know it, we'll be up to our elbows in homos.
As a rule homosexuals change partners frequently. If they become included on health benefits, and insurance programs the effect on rates for straights could increase exponentially. Often ex-spouses and prodiginy if any, must continue to be covered under insurance plans plus any new spouses and dependents if any.
In heritance and palamony laws can become a nightmare.
:bbg: :bbg: :bbg:Originally Posted by shanbaum
How do homosexuals have kids with each other? If you think about it, if homosexual couples adopt babies, it might reduce the number of abortions that are performed.:idea:
Chip,
I think the promiscuity issue might be a stereotype that isn't factual. But, if it is, wouldn't being allowed to marry reduce this frequent partner changing, since they can now make an "official, lawful commitment"? I wonder what the divorce rate among homosexual couples would be. I can't see how it, and the insurance issues you bring up, could be any worse than heterosexual couples.
Spexvet
Well I really believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman (translates to I do not like homosexuals and they scare me).
But seriously, I have no problem with it, as it doesn't affect me. They say that homosexuals have a lot of promiscuity, but that is based on the stereotype that men are more promisculous and two men would make it worse. So that ignores the who lesbian situation, and ignores the fact that if a man is promisculous then if he is married to a man or a women he is still promisculous.
You can put labels on all of the excuses, but it comes down to the majority feeling fear and disgust. There are some people that do feel this or that, but I do not believe that a guy who has not been to church in 10 years can use religion as a bases in a country that seperates church and state.
Re: insurance, no state requires ex-spouses be covered under company sponsered healthcare, in face I don't believe any state requires spousal benefits at all. I've certainly never worked anywhere that allowed ex-spouses to be covered under my company sponsored health plan (and that includes plans that allow for domestic partnership benefits).
Palamony laws already apply to same sex relationships in some states and I haven't heard of any particular issues with homosexuals and these laws. In fact by your arguement of rapid relationship turnover then most homosexuals wouldn't qualify anyway (not meeting the minimum relationship lifetime).
Nice spin job baby, you are getting better and better all the time. This is honestly a murky issue for me as I have some very good friends who are homosexual and in long term committed relationships. But I think once we start messing with marriage it opens doors and sets legal precedents that are going to make it ugly. I have trouble with any group that I would consider almost it's own "special interest group" trying to foist it's agenda on me. Before you jump on me I know religious groups are doing their own foisting, I choose to stay out of most of that. I have a baby crying for dinner so I will have to check in later...it doesn't "hurt" me but it makes me uncomfortable.
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If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
I've heard this arguement a fair amount and am unsure of what doors are being opened besides poly-marriage which I don't view as much of an issue either (though here there are certainly more repricussions with respect to issues like health insurance and inheritence).
It doesn't bother me a bit. My partner (Diane) and I have been together 11 years, and are going to Canada this spring to be married.
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I think they are only trying to "foist" themselves. If you are a heterosexual, you are really not involved.
A lot of things make me uncomfortable: war in Iraq and a no bid contract awarded to Haliburton, for instance. Talk about foisted!
Spexvet
Not really. Just trying to get some conservative heads to explode as they chase their tails thinking "what do I do? I want to reduce abortions, but I don't want gay marriage, but I want to reduce abortions, but I don't want gay marriage...." Unfortunately, Karen caught me. I was a good cop.:o
Spexvet
Congratulations! I hope American minds will open soon.
Just out of curiousity, what 'rule book' have you been reading?Do you have any close friends or family members that are gay?
My son and his partner have been together for 10-1/2 years now. Interestingly this is longer than either of my two best friends first marriages lasted.
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It would also prove that homosexuality is not genetic.
I'll do you all at once.
Just out of curiousity, what 'rule book' have you been reading?Not really. Just trying to get some conservative heads to explode as they chase their tailsFirstly, when I visit clients in The Castro, and eat in the establishments there, and go to the Castro theatre to watch that latest liberal garbage, I can easily say that if I didn't believe that gay men were permiscuous, I would be an idiot.As a rule homosexuals change partners frequently.
I don't need my gay friends and clients to tell me that honestly or model out, both things which they have done on numerous occations. Furthurmore having gay friends does not lend any more or any less creedence to what I can see with my own eyes.
As far as my head exploding, I must say as a hetero, ultra consservative, I am wondering about why so many people are concerned with what goes on in someone elses bedroom, or on their kitchen table. I for one could care less where you all stick it, what you snort, or what God you don't believe in.:cheers:
Chip brings up a very good point. The ramifications to the legal system, and healthcare system are enormous. And to flippantly advocat drastic changes to our society, while telling those who impacted negatively by those changes to shove it, is a luxury reserved for a rich lady like Teresa Heinz. There are no easy answers to the legal mess. And furthurmore, our healthcare system isn't exactly in good shape for such a shock right now.
Last edited by mrba; 11-09-2004 at 02:46 AM.
double post
At the risk of sounding like a right wing nut.............. for me its about drawing a line. I'm not comfortable with pushing the envelope that far. I think that MOST of the population feel the same, its not something you can put your finger on. It is a moral issue that most of the folk I come in contact with are not willing to bend. Over the last 30 years it has become easier for homosexual couples to live open, and will most likely take another 30 for them to get married, at least in conventional terms.
Paul:cheers:
You are not putting forth a reason except that you are "not comfortable" and you haven't said how it hurts you. I encourage you to post again and let us know these things.
I'd like to see some documentation of this. Seems to me that the healthcare issue would be impacted only for the premium amount difference between two people having individual coverage and two people on the same policy. Will this amount, multiplied by the number of same gender marriages, represent enormous ramifications? The legal system would be impacted the same as it would be were the same number of multi-gendered couples to be married.
I don't think anyone is being "flippant". This is as serious to homosexuals as your right to worship God the way you choose is to you.
So who does it impact negatively, and why?
The Clintons tried to fix our healthcare system more than a decade ago, and were nixed by the conservative Republicans. Any regrets?
You claim to be ultra conservative, then you present a very liberal perspective on personal freedom. Which is it?
People were once not comfortable with interracial marriages.
dead horse in a previous thread.
Anyone who thinks that gay marriage can become the law of the land without eventually leading to polygamy and family members being allowed to marry as well is just kidding himself/herself.
I thought the election pretty well staked out that the homophobic, toothless, uneducated ( red state) majority of America dosen't want gay marriage.
I think the trend just shifted back the other way. (funny how that happens when something points out that morality really does matter) The Itallians don't want gay marriage or adoption by gays and in Australia the government is now cutting back on the funding of abortions, especially late term abortons.
I think the election was a wake up call to a lot of conservatives world wide.
Rep
Spexvet, it does not physicaly hurt or affect me. But that is no reason to allow gay marriage. I dont want to live in a where it's ok. Nor do I think late term aboration should be legal. Like I said eariler some where there should be a line drawn, I just feel as though its right of center.
Paul:cheers:
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