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Thread: GOP National Convention

  1. #1
    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    GOP National Convention

    Now this is more like it... Actually, I missed the speeches- but caught the completely unbiased (drip, drip) post-coverage on CNN as their open-minded commentators attempted to tell America what to think of what they had just seen...

    Rudy and McCain are decidedly not my favorite Republicans, but I thought they both carried off tremendous speeches that show how unified the GOP, even though we're currently more diverse than the party of liberalism (jab, jab). Of course, if you aren't a Republican you probably didn't like much of what you heard (but this is the GOP convention). The real question, naturally, is what independent-minded voters thought.

    So, one more speaker to get by and I can relax. I'm not sure just how Gov. Ahh-nold is going to do this evening in his first nationally televised political speech. Senator Dole will knock it out of the park, and the finest first lady of the past 12 years (all I have to say, is- thank God Laura Bush is our First Lady!) will surely impress as well. Basically, it looks like a night of conservative women on the horizon!

    Anyway, after listening to the media talk more about the "protesters" than the actual convention, its relaxing to see the GOP strut its stuff. Go get 'em, guys and gals!
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    Pete:


    Who you think gonna git the nomination?

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    Master OptiBoarder chm2023's Avatar
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    From a crazed liberal POV: McCain was very good; Rudy was excellent. Don't worry about Arnold, he's too shrewd to screw up his big night. Guiliani does bother me sometimes, in that the honest truth is that 9/11 was a big political break for him. Prior to that as you may recall, he was quickly becoming Mr persona non gratis in New York. Not his fault of course that the timing was fortuitous for him, and he did do a masterful job in the aftermath. Just a personal creeps thing for me I guess.

    I rather miss the tension and drama of the "real" conventions. These things are getting to be more like coronations.

    (Favorite moment: McCain's reference to Michael Moore! Gee poor Mike is laughing all the way to the bank!!)

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    Optical Curmudgeon EyeManFla's Avatar
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    John's was good, Rudy's was better!
    "Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde"

  5. #5
    Master OptiBoarder chm2023's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Hanlin
    Basically, it looks like a night of conservative women on the horizon!
    Don't forget the address being given by Miss America 2003 (I am not making this up). Add Phyllis Schafly--sp?-- to the mix and it's all good. (Oops forgot, Phyllis is being kept in the attic with the rest of the right wing meat eaters!!!)

  6. #6
    Don't forget the address being given by Miss America 2003
    I detect a hint of jelousy...

  7. #7
    Objection! OptiBoard Gold Supporter shanbaum's Avatar
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    Who Knew?

    I just caught a few seconds of it tonight. Pete! Karen! I had no idea! Are all you guys black?

  8. #8
    I am sitting here listening to Laura Bush, and just heard Arnold.


    Republicans are just better.

  9. #9
    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    It would have been interesting to let Laura Bush speak from a classroom setting (seriously, I think it would have been more her element). Her address was pleasant, but I'd have to say Hillary did better during the Dem convention. The daughters? Well, if that's what I have to look forward to as the parent of a daughter, I think I'm going to need some valium or something... I suppose they showed how "normal" they were or something, but...

    Anyway, then came Ah-nold. Homerun, grand slam, out of the park, get this guy out on the circuit. I take back about 4.8% of my criticism of the fine citizens of California. Take off all the silly health labels you seem to place on everything Americans use, and there might be hope for you yet! Seriously, while Ah-nold isn't my cup of tea as a Republican, I did like what I saw last night.

    If conventions are supposed to make you feel better as a partisan, mission already accomplished. Let's get the election out of the way, send Kerry back to his humorless life in MA, and get on with the business of being Americans. Oh, and for all the asinine protestors screaming "Shut up Fox" in the streets of NYC, pleaaaase keep it up! You help my cause every day. (Oh, and if the media questions you, be sure to have an answer to the question- "What are you protesting?")
    ;)
    Hmmm, I've seen major portions of each speech thus far, and the main message I take away is that the GOP is trying to project inclusiveness in 2004. Then, I pick up the New York Times and the headline is "Republicans speak out against Gays & Abortion." Excuse me? Of course, the article goes on for several paragraphs and I see no mention of any of these supposed tirades... Needless to say, I didn't put out a "please deliver the NY Times" slip on my door last evening.

    PS- If I were a glutton for punishment, I might tune in to see how Judy Woodruff is managing to negatively spin all this. Happily enough, this time I have an alternative to CNN...
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
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    Master OptiBoarder Lee Prewitt's Avatar
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    I can't help but keep saying that the GOP is now the party of inclusion! I watched both parties and have to say the Rep are doing a much better job. I am GOP but try to keep open about what both parties have to say. It is better to know thine enemy.


    I keep hearing locally that the GOP is showcasing not the "true" party but listen to what they are saying! You don't have to believe in everything the party stands for. It shows how far the GOP has come in being more inclusive to many thoughts. Have to admit, the GOP has been far more entertaining to watch. About the twins, how many 18 and 19 year old voters are out there? Hey our Dad is like yours but he's not too bad.

    4 more years...4 more years...4 more years
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  11. #11
    Objection! OptiBoard Gold Supporter shanbaum's Avatar
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    Get in on a great deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Prewitt
    I can't help but keep saying that the GOP is now the party of inclusion!
    Hey, Lee, send me your e-mail address. I've got a bunch of messages - mostly from Nigeria - that you'll be real interested in pursuing.

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder Lee Prewitt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanbaum
    Hey, Lee, send me your e-mail address. I've got a bunch of messages - mostly from Nigeria - that you'll be real interested in pursuing.
    So you are the source of all that spam! I knew it! But really Shanbaum, if you compare the 2 conventions, the GOP really showed a broader scope of participants. Meaning not the usual hard core but the moderate element as well.

    On the emails, I will be getting my check any day now!!
    Lee Prewitt, ABOM
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  13. #13
    Objection! OptiBoard Gold Supporter shanbaum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Prewitt
    So you are the source of all that spam! I knew it! But really Shanbaum, if you compare the 2 conventions, the GOP really showed a broader scope of participants. Meaning not the usual hard core but the moderate element as well.

    On the emails, I will be getting my check any day now!!
    To be fair, I haven't been able to watch much (though I did see Ahnold, and the "girlie-man on the economy" line was truly enjoyable, its meaninglessness notwithstanding). Those moments on which I have been home this week with the TV on, I've been struggling with bouts of nausea.

    Can't explain it.

    On the other hand, the assertion that the demographics of the GOP are actually more diverse than the Dems - wow, you need to write that one up; it certainly contradicts conventional wisdom. 'Course, I have to respect that, since I'd argue that the conventional wisdom about the GOP (smaller government, personal freedom) is as bass-ackwards as it can be. I'd say the GOP is the party of faster-growing, more intrusive government. But what the heck, I'm just considering recent history... I suppose we really should be talking about the 60's and 70's. It's not like the intervening years actually happened, or anything like that.

    I guess that the Potemkin village being served up at MSG may actually achieve its desired effect in some cases... why am I not surprised...

  14. #14
    OptiWizard
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    Arnold was great.

    I pulled myself away from the 22-zip thrashing of the Yankees to watch Arnold address the convention. I particularly loved his immigrant view of the 1968 race.
    His first impression of America is very close to what my grandparents saw in 1924.

    I think the twins are in big trouble with Grandma. It looked to me like they trashed the script and adlibbed. Their attempt at comedy was pretty bad.
    W, take a note, the girls should be there as All American Girl Next Door window dressing.

    Jim

    W in 04!
    Jim Schafer
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    When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say even less.
    Paul Brown

  15. #15
    Objection! OptiBoard Gold Supporter shanbaum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Schafer
    I pulled myself away from the 22-zip thrashing of the Yankees to watch Arnold address the convention. I particularly loved his immigrant view of the 1968 race.
    His first impression of America is very close to what my grandparents saw in 1924.

    Jim

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    Please read this: http://slate.msn.com/id/2106025/

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    Master OptiBoarder Lee Prewitt's Avatar
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    I did not say that the deomgraphics are more diverse. Viewing both conventions, the Rep are putting forth a more diverse, inclusive front. They are not keeping to the same speakers that have been put forth in past conventions. Everyone agrees that McCain, Arnold, are not mainstream. They have differences with the party but were allowed to speak. Did the Dems do that? I don't recall seeing but the tried and true front. Bill and Hillary. I will admit that Bill is one he** of an orator and enjoy his delivery if not the message.
    Lee Prewitt, ABOM
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  17. #17
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    I must admit that Sen. McCain was the one Republican that I could tolerate, however after his convention speech, I'm pretty much over him as well.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Prewitt
    I did not say that the deomgraphics are more diverse. Viewing both conventions, the Rep are putting forth a more diverse, inclusive front. They are not keeping to the same speakers that have been put forth in past conventions. Everyone agrees that McCain, Arnold, are not mainstream. They have differences with the party but were allowed to speak. Did the Dems do that? I don't recall seeing but the tried and true front. Bill and Hillary. I will admit that Bill is one he** of an orator and enjoy his delivery if not the message.
    Yes but Lee, you don't understand, that to the dems your skin color is more important than you opinion, or that you can even think at all!

  19. #19
    Master OptiBoarder chm2023's Avatar
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    Pete, I think the NYT headline referred to the Republican platform, that was an article I read anyway.

    Agree Arnold was absloutely great, he has it, no doubt. Thought he made a mistake in the "girly-man" comment. That was the soundbite everyone ran with, so people who didn't see the entire speech only saw the one buffoonish moment. Laura did well, I thought better than Hillary--let's face it, it's by definition a mushy job. The girls were pretty bad, the Kerry girls were exponentially better, these girls acted like they were 13 not 23. I still don't get the point of this offspring stuff. We now know that John K and George B loved their little girls. Alert the media.

    Though Cheney did a good job last night, he's not a particularly talented speaker, but made his points--twisted lies, but points made nonetheless!! Thought Miller made a huge mistake: as keynote speaker to go so negative is a big risk.

    More depressing economic news out today, is anyone going to talk about the domestic issues?

    On another note, does anyone remember Ralph Reed? And is not that congressman from Georgia who is always on CNN and Fox his double?
    Last edited by chm2023; 09-02-2004 at 09:34 AM.

  20. #20
    Master OptiBoarder chm2023's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Prewitt
    I did not say that the deomgraphics are more diverse. Viewing both conventions, the Rep are putting forth a more diverse, inclusive front. They are not keeping to the same speakers that have been put forth in past conventions. Everyone agrees that McCain, Arnold, are not mainstream. They have differences with the party but were allowed to speak. Did the Dems do that? I don't recall seeing but the tried and true front. Bill and Hillary. I will admit that Bill is one he** of an orator and enjoy his delivery if not the message.
    Al Sharpton spoke as did Hillary Clinton and Howard Dean. These are the liberal voices of the party and they were given a chance to speak.

    I would propose that Arnold and McCain are mainstream, the current leadership of the Republican party is not. Or why would the party put them on front and center?
    Last edited by chm2023; 09-02-2004 at 09:30 AM.

  21. #21
    Master OptiBoarder chm2023's Avatar
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    NYT editorial

    Mr. Bush and the Truth About Terror



    hile Republican delegates have been meeting in New York City, terrorist bombs have been exploding in the rest of the world. The horrific pictures of victims on an Israeli bus and slain airplane and subway passengers, as well as of a school held hostage in Russia, are a stark reminder to Americans that terrorism is not all about us. It is the tactic of preference for the self-obsessed radical movements of our age.

    President Bush was absolutely right when he said it was impossible to win a war against terrorism - it's like announcing we can win a war against violence. Terrorism can only be minimized and controlled, and that can be done only with a worldwide strategy, joined by all of the world's sensible and peaceful nations. We hope that when Mr. Bush accepts his party's nomination for re-election tonight, he makes that argument.

    The chances of a serious dialogue about terror took a blow, of course, when Mr. Bush retracted his completely sensible statement about terrorism after the Kerry-Edwards campaign attacked it. So far, this has been an election season of monumental simple-mindedness, in which the candidates start each day by telling us this is the most important election in the history of the planet, then devote the rest of their waking hours to meaningless sniping. But it's certainly not too late to elevate the conversation.

    Tonight we do not need Mr. Bush to remind us that he went to ground zero and spoke through a bullhorn. It was a fine gesture that any president would have made. As far as judging his leadership, it is as irrelevant as the famous extra minutes he spent in a classroom in Florida during a reading of "The Pet Goat" after the World Trade Center was attacked.

    We do not need to hear further justification of his invasion of Iraq. It seems clear to us that the whole war is a mistake, a detour from hunting down terrorists that was undertaken on the basis of wrong information and is likely in the end to do far more harm than good when it comes to ending fanaticism in the Middle East. But the president is certainly not going to admit any of that, and as far as the future goes, he and John Kerry are in agreement about staying the course in Iraq.

    What Mr. Bush should really talk about tonight is staying the course in Afghanistan, which is a case study in the perils of battling groups like Al Qaeda as if they were nation-states. The American-led invasion was a success to the degree that a government friendly to the United States and opposed to terrorist groups has been installed in Kabul. But armed opponents of the government are still all over the rest of Afghanistan, including Qaeda remnants and a revived Taliban.

    So are the people who sponsor them, like Abdul Rasul Sayyaf, a notorious warlord and savage fundamentalist who in the 1980's and 1990's served as the chief mentor and protector of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the Qaeda mastermind of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Incredibly, Mr. Sayyaf has been a major beneficiary of the American-led invasion and is now one of the country's leading power brokers. All of the main candidates in the coming presidential election in Afghanistan, including the American-backed incumbent, Hamid Karzai, actively seek his endorsement.

    If Mr. Bush is going to speak seriously about terrorism tonight, he also needs to talk about Israel. With its fixation on Iraq, the administration has allowed the situation in Israel to turn into a stalemate in which the Sharon government continues to expand its suicidal West Bank settlements while attempting to keep the Palestinians under control with sheer military force. The West Bank is not just a breeding ground for terrorists; it is the perpetual wound Arabs use to justify supporting and financing violent extremists.

    Iraqis can go to the polls to vote, but the Middle East will still be a hotbed of terrorism if Palestinians cannot grow up with hopes for a decent life in a land over which they have some control. There is no way that the current mess is going to improve without the very aggressive intervention of United States diplomacy.

    The Bush campaign is betting the ranch on the idea that Americans, in the end, will vote for the candidate they think is most likely to keep the nation safe from terrorism. The president has been honest about saying we will never be totally safe. He has been much less frank about explaining that even relative safety depends on our ability to create international alliances and to pick our fights not on the basis of where our armies can successfully fight, or of settling old scores, but where the gravest dangers lie. There are few venues less promising for truth-telling than a political convention, but there are also few better opportunities to make the public listen.

    Good analysis.

  22. #22
    Objection! OptiBoard Gold Supporter shanbaum's Avatar
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    Missed it, myself...

    Here's an interesting perspective on Miller's speech, from conservative (and geez, I'd swear he used to be a Republican) columnist Andrew Sullivan:


    THE MILLER MOMENT: Zell Miller's address will, I think, go down as a critical moment in this campaign, and maybe in the history of the Republican party. I kept thinking of the contrast with the Democrats' keynote speaker, Barack Obama, a post-racial, smiling, expansive young American, speaking about national unity and uplift. Then you see Zell Miller, his face rigid with anger, his eyes blazing with years of frustration as his Dixiecrat vision became slowly eclipsed among the Democrats. Remember who this man is: once a proud supporter of racial segregation, a man who lambasted LBJ for selling his soul to the negroes. His speech tonight was in this vein, a classic Dixiecrat speech, jammed with bald lies, straw men, and hateful rhetoric. As an immigrant to this country and as someone who has been to many Southern states and enjoyed astonishing hospitality and warmth and sophistication, I long dismissed some of the Northern stereotypes about the South. But Miller did his best to revive them. The man's speech was not merely crude; it added whole universes to the word crude.






    THE "OCCUPATION" CANARD: Miller first framed his support for Bush as a defense of his own family. The notion that individuals deserve respect regardless of their family is not Miller's core value. And the implication was that if the Democrats win in November, his own family would not be physically safe. How's that for subtlety? Miller's subsequent assertion was that any dissent from aspects of the war on terror is equivalent to treason. He accused all war critics of essentially attacking the very troops of the United States. He conflated the ranting of Michael Moore with the leaders of the Democrats. He said the following:
    Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today's Democratic leaders see America as an occupier, not a liberator. And nothing makes this Marine madder than someone calling American troops occupiers rather than liberators.
    That macho invocation of the Marines was a classic: the kind of militarist swagger that this convention endorses and uses as a bludgeon against its opponents. But the term "occupation," of course, need not mean the opposite of liberation. I have used the term myself and I deeply believe that coalition troops have indeed liberated Afghanistan and Iraq. By claiming that the Democrats were the enemies of the troops, traitors, quislings and wimps, Miller did exactly what he had the audacity to claim the Democrats were doing: making national security a partisan matter. I'm not easy to offend, but this speech was gob-smackingly vile.







    OPPONENTS OR ENEMIES?: Here's another slur:
    No one should dare to even think about being the Commander in Chief of this country if he doesn't believe with all his heart that our soldiers are liberators abroad and defenders of freedom at home. But don't waste your breath telling that to the leaders of my party today. In their warped way of thinking America is the problem, not the solution. They don't believe there is any real danger in the world except that which America brings upon itself through our clumsy and misguided foreign policy.
    Yes, that describes some on the left, but it is a calumny against Democrats who voted for war in Afghanistan and Iraq and whose sincerity, as John McCain urged, should not be in question. I have never heard Kerry say that 9/11 was America's fault; if I had, it would be inconceivable to consider supporting him. And so this was, in truth, another lie, another cheap, faux-patriotic smear. Miller has absolutely every right to lambaste John Kerry's record on defense in the Senate. It's ripe for criticism, and, for my part, I disagree with almost all of it (and as a pro-Reagan, pro-Contra, pro-SDI, pro-Gulf War conservative, I find Kerry's record deeply troubling). But that doesn't mean he's a traitor or hates America's troops or believes that the U.S. is responsible for global terror. And the attempt to say so is a despicable attempt to smear someone's very patriotism.




    THE FOREIGN AGENT: Another lie: "Senator Kerry has made it clear that he would use military force only if approved by the United Nations. Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending. I want Bush to decide." Miller might have found some shred of ancient rhetoric that will give him cover on this, but in Kerry's very acceptance speech, he declared the opposite conviction - that he would never seek permission to defend this country. Another lie: "John Kerry wants to re-fight yesterday's war." Kerry didn't want to do that. Yes, he used his military service in the campaign - but it was his opponents who decided to dredge up the divisions of the Vietnam war in order to describe Kerry as a Commie-loving traitor who faked his own medals. What's remarkable about the Republicans is their utter indifference to fairness in their own attacks. Smearing opponents as traitors to their country, as unfit to be commander-in-chief, as agents of foreign powers (France) is now fair game. Appealing to the crudest form of patriotism and the easiest smears is wrong when it is performed by the lying Michael Moore and it is wrong when it is spat out by Zell Miller. Last night was therefore a revealing night for me. I watched a Democrat at a GOP Convention convince me that I could never be a Republican. If they wheel out lying, angry old men like this as their keynote, I'll take Obama. Any day.

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    Master OptiBoarder chm2023's Avatar
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    Bravo Andrew!!

    Vile is the perfect work to describe this horrible, horrible little man. My secretary says he reminded her of Mr Burns (of Simpson fame). That, I told her, is an insult to Mr Burns!!!

    Here's my question: why in the world doesn't he join the Republican party? We certainly don't want him!! I suspect Sullivan is right, this is the bitterness of a tired old man who saw his party embrace civil rights; it's also easier for him to get the limelight this way. Were he a Republican, he would be just another face in the crowd. I too thought of the comparison to Obama. Nonetheless, Bush will with a perfectly straight face tell us tonight that his is the party of optimism. Go figure.

    PS, I attended a fund raiser the other evening where Bill Clinton spoke. He makes a good point: the Republicans don't want to talk about the Bush record: 40% increase in healthcare, 35% increase in college tuition, 2.5 million children left behind in the ironically named "No Child Left Behind" program, an outrageously expensive prescription drug plan (that people aren't using) that gives $40 billion of handouts to drug companies, our reputation at an all time low abroad, net job loss, enviromental back pedaling, wild over spending and the giant deficit and on and on. So they talk about the way the other guy is going to allow the country to be attacked and how their guy is tough on terror. Tough on terror being largely symbolism--still no plan or money to protect our ports, still no reasonable way to allocate homeland security funds, no leadership to attack the core problem, the Palestinian issue.

    And let's not forget that Bush was against establishing the Homeland Security Dept and against the 9/11 commission. He of course came around--this in Republican parlance is flip-flopping. Not possible that he came to better understand the situation I guess.......

    Here's something interesting from the news the other day: Greenspan is now warning that baby boomers need to be advised to "re-examine" their retirement plans as SS is going broke (this being the same SS that was solvent under Clinton). Re-examine meaning to not count on SS and look at an increased retirement age for Medicare benefits. But really, what is this compared to John Kerry knowing someone who knew Jane Fonda?
    Last edited by chm2023; 09-02-2004 at 12:33 PM.

  24. #24
    Vile is the perfect work to describe this horrible, horrible little man.
    How tall is he?... Is he a girlie man?

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by shanbaum
    Here's an interesting perspective on Miller's speech, from conservative (and geez, I'd swear he used to be a Republican) columnist.
    I just read the Zell Miller speech. I think this article is not accurate.

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