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Thread: TIPS ON DISPENSING

  1. #351
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    Lightbulb pd,s

    :idea: When measuring pd,s, especially for progressives it is not always a good idea to rely on the pupilometer. The pupilometer can be off for two reasons, one being the reflection your seeing is not always the center of the pupil.
    .......Second, a pupilometer does not fit on the bridge of the nose the same way the average frame does, even more so with wire frames with adjustable nose pads.
    .....Because of the assemetry of the human face and the fact that the human body has a natural curve to the left, you will notice in a good many people the nose curves slighlty to the left also. This is why you will quite commonly notice these differences in pd,s when taken in a monocular fashion. It is typical to see less on the left side of the nose and a slightly higher reading on the right. This is because the nose is slightly more concave on the left and a little more convex on the right.
    .....Due to the actual shape of the nose and how the pupilometer sits on it my vary the correct reading, thus it is probably better when fitting progessives and aspheric lenses to also dot the pupil and compare your readings. Of course dotting lenses should always be done after the frame has been fully adjusted in the as worn mode.

  2. #352
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    Harry:

    This is just a for what it's worth comment. Years ago I won a pupilometer as a door prize. At the time I was working with a journeyman (40+ years of experience). I measured all the patients one day with the pupilometer, he used a ruler. When the patient's came back we reversed ourselves and we never found over 1 mm difference between us. And this at a time when the lecture circuit was attempting to tell us that rulers were pass'e and anyone useing one was incompetent by todays "cutting edge standards."

    Chip:cheers:

  3. #353
    Master OptiBoarder Texas Ranger's Avatar
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    Wink

    I would like to say that I have found many pt's that have tried to wear pal lenses with binocular pal positions, i.e. 32.5/32.5, but when remade at 35/30, the pt's liked the pal very well; have also had monocular seg ht's vary as much as 3 mm. as mentioned earlier, scotch tape works well in these situations.

  4. #354
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    :idea: Here is another way you can make your boards look more attractive. Most frames come with a pair of clear demo lenses. Take them out and tint them lightly to some color that will coornidate with the frame. Also do some double tints Brown top/pink bottom,etc.
    .....This will promote tints and other options which are good money makers. It will also encourage your patients to ask questions about the tints.
    .....Make up some sort of a nice sign or several signs at different places telling your patients that all of your prescription frames can be made into sunglasses. You would be amazed at how many people think a sunglass has to be made into what looks like a sunglass type frame.:cheers:

  5. #355
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    Lightbulb ar lens scratching on vertometer

    :idea: For those of you who are costantly scratching up your lenses on the vertometer, take a piece of felt apx one inch in diameter round. Cut a hole in the center apx 8 mm. Stick this to a leap pad. Stick the other side of the leap pad onto the eyepiece, and now you have something soft that wont easily scratch your ar lenses.

  6. #356
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    Harry:

    I have found that coating the instrument eye peices doesn't help much. Also I have not been able to give away most frames with tinted demo lenses (unless they were supposed to be sunglasses). Do you know something (I know you know a lot, but on this subject) that I don't know. Also have found that those "wonderfull" tinted nose pads will ruin the saleablility of any frame. The darker ones make the customer look like he has a fly on his nose.


    Also I did once see an add for teflon covers for eyepieces in common instrument/microscope sizes, but it was some years back and I don't remember where.

    Chip

  7. #357
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    Lightbulb tints

    Chip, i was not talking about coating the eyepiece, as i was sticking on a felt pad. As far as the tinted lenses in your demonstration frames, yes it works great, but you have to talk about it to the customers, which is good as it starts conversations.
    .....If you notice a number of frame companies send there frames in now with tinted demo lenses, such as BEBE. In the case of BEBE, i never saw anything work so well, most of the young females that buy BEBE, buy that matching tint.
    .....As far as the nose pads go i agree and i usually leave them clear.
    .....I do remember years ago, i had a fellow working for me who had a small pair of preppy glasses and i could never understand why he did not clean or change the nose pads. Not wanting to say something and embarress him i never said anything, until it came up in conversation one day and then he showed me that it was made that way, and thats what it had, little brown dots, looked awful.

  8. #358
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    Harry,
    I just flicked up to your post on the pupillometer and notice that you mention that it could be out for two reasons. The second (about where it fits on the nose) I agree with, although the PD rule has many other potential areas for error. However, the reason that the reflex is not in the center of the pupil is because the visual axis of the eye is not in the center of the pupil. The pupillometer is giving us what we really want; any measurement of just the pupil center is not. There is a very good summary of this in Ralph Drews last book (published in 1990, I think), called Optical Dispensing-Present Day Realities. To measure the visual axes with a PD rule you will need to have a pen torch. You will also need to hold your hand, your head and the client's head perfectly still and square on to each other, avoid holding the pen torch against the side of the head, and have the same PD as your client (although, admittedly, Jalie has shown the effect of different PDs to be negligible).
    There was a great OptiBoard discussion of PDs some time ago in the Ophthalmic Optics forum.
    Chip, as a matter of interest, we have been carrying out surveys of students (and qualified opticians) and have noted significant differences in the results with the pupillometer being by far the most consistently accurate. Interestingly, all major lens manufacturers (to my knowledge) recommend the pupillometer when dispensing their lenses.
    Regards
    David

  9. #359
    Rising Star shimsham's Avatar
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    Thumbs up top tips

    this forum could be fantastic for everyone in the industry save the fact that i'm at a loss when it comes to some american terms or things that are particular to american optics; ivory dishes? All the same will be checking in regularly.
    My tip is to do with bolted rimless, when you cut off the excess bolt, reverse the nut before filing down, when filed, turn it round again and you have a lovely unblemised nut for your px.

    .ps. is a grooved rimless what we call supra or something different?

  10. #360
    Rising Star shimsham's Avatar
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    HenryB said:
    I am no chemist, but I can't imagine that using anti-freeze in a dye unit is a good thing for your health....(Beta Chem?? Help me out here)....I would suggest just using heat transfer fluid and getting the proper ventilation to eliminate the smell from that and the dye and UV. I have a 9 pot unit, 6 pot unit, and a BIG UV tank and never smell any of it.....I designed a vent system that not only pulls the smell out, but pulls it AWAY from the operator as well. (this will get you brownie points with OSHA)

    **If you use the screwdriver blades that are small on one side and larger on the other....... and think the small one is TOO small, but the big one is TOO big and scrapes the heck out of the barrel on alot of frames.....try knocking the pointed edges off of the big blade with a file just slightly at a 45 degree angle......now you can use it on about 90% of screws and it bites better than the small one.....keeps it from slipping out as much and destroying your fingers......we all know how much that hurts!!!!




    your scars on your fingers are your badges of honour, wear them with pride!

  11. #361
    Master OptiBoarder Texas Ranger's Avatar
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    Smilie

    David, great post; when we studied refracting, we studied the training videos that MDs use to learn with a retinascope. the pupilometer, basically emulate the retinascope, but just measures how far apart the visual axis's are, which is narrower than the center pupil distance, which can be a big factor with more than moderate powers and above. so far as a persons nose being shifted, thereby giving a different reading than the PD ruler, it's pretty likely that the glasses frame will rest more on the mose like the pupilometer...

  12. #362
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    Big Smile pupilometers

    :D David, once again a great post and we hope you will put many more on this section. Perhaps , i was misunderstood, as i am not against pupilometers, i was rather stating not to totally rely on them. Obviously with other means of measurements we will always have the parallax problem that will give you some error.
    .....I also have always believed that the margin of error on pd,s is not as critical as we would sometimes like to believe, unless your grinding lenses 20 diopters or more.
    .....As far as the ruler goes, i think its a case of experience more then anything. Most of us old timers like myself and Chip can use a ruler as well as a puilometer from the standpoint of just doing thousands upon thousands of them over the years.
    .....Like chip i was once challenged also, and in every test was within a millimeter of the pupilometer. In actuallity a lot of us old timers just from looking at so many people can almost call the PD without measuring it. I sometimes do this with the patients to have a little fun and then see how close i get.
    .....What i was really advocating in the first post was to use all the methods as a double check for accuracy.
    .....I don,t know if your familiar with it or not, but the system i saw that i liked the best was over in France, where they have a camera that takes a picture of both eyes and then lines up two white lines , one over each pupil and then gives you the excat reading. Of the ones i,ve seen it was dead on. Good to hear from you David and please post some more tips

  13. #363
    Master OptiBoarder Texas Ranger's Avatar
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    Smilie

    Harry, I had one of those things; it was called a Photocentron, took a scaled b&w poloroid pic. then you had a scaled blocker with a slot for the pic. so you put the edging block on looking into their eyes. pretty cool, and quite impressive, but it did require some acquired skill by whoever was taking the pic, eventually quit using it in favor of the pupilometer. had some slow learners on the photocentron, so it caused as many problems as it solved....oh, well, live and learn.

  14. #364
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    A story for Judy:

    Moved to advantages of licenseing.

  15. #365
    Rising Star shimsham's Avatar
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    Re: Photogray/PhotoBrown

    chip anderson said:
    When replacing only one lens in Photochromic Glass, the lab will tell you they can't be matched. Place old lens in the salt pan, heat well, it will lighten up to virgin color, then both lenses will start from scratch.

    Chip

    i have heard this salt pan thing mentioned about a dozen times, what is it? explain the construction and it might be somthing we use over here under a different name. does maria know?

  16. #366
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    A 'salt pan' is a heated container with salt or glass beads. It's used to heat plastic frames to make them pliable enough to insert the edged lenses. You can see a picture of one here:

    http://www.pomonline.com/tools.html


    OptiBoard Administrator
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  17. #367
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    Harry,
    You make an interesting point, in your reply to my post, about
    the margin of error on PDs being less critical than we would sometimes like to believe. I tend to agree, if we are discussing unwanted prismatic effect, however there is less room for error on the centering of certain lens types, notably progressives and aspherics.
    Aspheric centration is a particular favourite of mine. Manufacturers, textbooks etc tell us (correctly) to drop the optical center 1 millimeter for every two degrees of pantoscopic tilt so that the principal axis of the lens passes through the centre of rotation of the eye. Having said that it amazes me how many people don't do this. Anyway, that same principle should apply to horizontal centration. This would mean that if we were fitting apherics as readers we should set the centers on distance PD rather than the near centration distance (near PD if you prefer). This would mean, off course, unwanted prismatic effect at near.
    I spoke to a colleague who is a lecturer in optometry with a special interest in binolcular vision and asked if he thought the prismatic effect would be a problem (I used a case with a +6.00 D distance Rx and a +1.50 D add). His answer was no, their fusional convergence reserves would easily cope.
    I then compared the prismatic effects this person would experience when reading if this person wore progressives, bifocals or their old distance prescription. The base out prism experienced in their aspherics set at distance PD was closer to the other three options than the readers set on near CD (which had no prismatic effect).
    If we don't set aspherics (or any single vision lens for that matter) according to the center of rotation rule we are inducing unwanted oblique astigmatism.
    Anyway, it was just a thought, Harry. But it's worth considering.
    Regards
    David

  18. #368
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    OC's in SV RX's

    Often overlooked, the OC on a SV lens can be a factor in a successful fitting. Particularly in an aspheric lens like a seiko super sv. They have a central area that is spherical with the surronding lens merging into a aspheric style. ie it needs to be fit for height as well as PD.

    On another note.....
    Can anyone tell me what the norm is for glass lenses in Europe? I see alot of eyeglasses with glass lenses that were done in europe......very thin grind on them.

  19. #369
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    Don't know the standards if any for Europe or Asia. But in many parts of the world the are not blessed (cursed) with Big Brother watching over them (for thier own protection of course.)

    Oh, what it was like to be free in the 50's. Are you sure the Yankee Army said it was to free the people?

    Chip;) ;)

  20. #370
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    Thumbs up Thin glass lenses (Europe)

    Those pesky Europeans make some nice lenses huh?
    Zeiss Makes several, the lantal I have dispensed on several occasions, it is a 1.9 index glass that they will surface to less than a mm! Waiver required. Zeiss also makes the punctal and tital which are 1.8 and 1.7 index.
    I sold a pair of the 1.9 index lenses to a -14.00 with a 42 eye, they did not stick out of the frame.
    Christopher

  21. #371
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    Smilie

    I didn't think a waiver would hold up in a civil suit against your shop....

  22. #372
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    Ranger:

    If the waiver is signed by the "precriber" and he does not have a financial interest in the shop, it puts it on the precriber's back. The patient cannot authorize non-standard thickness.

    Chip

  23. #373
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    Lightbulb distometer

    When using a distometer never presume that the vertex depth that you measure on one eye will be the same on the other eye. Due to the assemetry of the face, you may well find a mm or 2 difference which will affect your calculations.

  24. #374
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    Lightbulb filing

    :idea: When using various type files, whether it be a rasp , a ******* file or a toe file, the motion should always be forward only, never back and forth. This is the way files are enginnered to work.
    .....When filing a zyl type temple, in order not to mar it or file the wrong angle, i suggest marking the temple with a pen where you want the filing to stop. Next put a piece of masking tape on that line, several times over. This is good if you slip as you wont mar the temple. This will also stop you from filing off more then you want.
    .....Next, mount the temple gently in a small vise grip. The jaws will now be on the tape and again you will not have any marks on the temple.
    .....What this also does is free up both hands, so you can make a nice forward motion keeping both hands on the file. Happy filing.

  25. #375
    Master OptiBoarder Texas Ranger's Avatar
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    Smilie

    Chip, that's what I thought, that the patient could not on his own sign such a waiver, but I don't know any "prescribers" who would put themselves in such a position of liability, do you?

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