How not to be a good optician.

Is 1.74 brittle? Because I just cracked off a chip cold-removing a lens from a no-heat frame.

Here's the cycle of doom:

-10.00 pushy male doofus myope insists (and there's the problem--no one should get to insist anything) in putting his Rx in a 57-eye (crap) Nike frame (that I am responsible for putting on the board, and I've learned my lession 1000x over) and instead of saying "no, sir" we try to indulge his fantasy and try 1.74 because it shaves a 1/2 mm off the 1.67 material per the calculator (which is not a valid point-of-sale technique, BTW). So he's putting an expensive lens into the quality of frame that I can exceed at the Circle-K truck stop.

And there's, of course, a SPORTY 10 degree face form to the frame, which wasn't accounted for, neither in the lens power ordering process (yes, that's on us) and the front curve comes back flat as a mirror causing mega-splay, so my optician tries to put faceform at the bridge and it slightly creasemelts this plastic fake frame at the bridge, so it gets re-made with wrap comp (but not in a wrap-design lens, like it should so it fits the "am-I-an-ophthalmic-or-am-I-a-sunglass" non-binary frame). But it's still splayed.

So I get involved and pop out the lenses so I can gently turn in the endpieces, chipping off a nice little piece of the barely safety beveled posterior lens edge--and I didn't use much force.

So, now, after damaging the frame and ruining the remake, we're going to start from scratch.

So...many...lessons.
1. Don't let a pushy patient tell you how to be a good optician.
2. Don't buy certain garbage frames.
3. Don't think you can cover your stupid frame choices with a high-index miracle lens.
4. Don't have quasi-wrap frames on your ophthalmic board. Either do, or do not do. (Didn't Yoda say that?) If you have wrap frames (and preferably only in the sunglass display), clearly identify them as such and don't goof around with standard ophthalmic lens designs.
5. Wrap frames (like rimless mounts) are an ANOMALOUS WAY TO MOUNT RX LENSES and it takes special materials and special optics and that's not going to be cheap, so buck up if you want your wrap crap.
6. There's probably more.

But is 1.74 brittle, or is it just me?

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Originally Posted by drk

But is 1.74 brittle, or is it just me?

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Yes it not advised to use 1.74 in metal grooves or rimless frames. It easily chips.

Brittle as old people's bones. Probably insufficient safety bevel. The safety/pin bevel should be done by hand, if you use a lab that has still has human hands working. Insert from the back of the frame.

You're on the path to becoming an expert ophthalmic optician.

Robert M.

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Originally Posted by drk

So...many...lessons.
1. Don't let a pushy patient tell you how to be a good optician.
2. Don't buy certain garbage frames.
3. Don't think you can cover your stupid frame choices with a high-index miracle lens.
4. Don't have quasi-wrap frames on your ophthalmic board. Either do, or do not do. (Didn't Yoda say that?) If you have wrap frames (and preferably only in the sunglass display), clearly identify them as such and don't goof around with standard ophthalmic lens designs.
5. Wrap frames (like rimless mounts) are an ANOMALOUS WAY TO MOUNT RX LENSES and it takes special materials and special optics and that's not going to be cheap, so buck up if you want your wrap crap.
6. There's probably more.

But is 1.74 brittle, or is it just me?

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1. You can only do so much with pushy customers. You just let them know what you know. This is going to be thick and the optics will not be the best that we could do for you if we chose a better fitting and non-wrap frame. I can mitigate that A LITTLE bit with some things but nothing is going to change the end result.

2. We sell those same Nike sunglasses and I pretty much only sell them to CL wearers or the folks at the end of the year who have a VSP plan that allows them to get plano suns. Low Rx's only if you must Rx them.

3. THIS is fundamental to everything we do as opticians. There is no miracle, you can somewhat mitigate a bad frame choice but you are still getting an inferior product all around.

4. Need a discerning eye when purchasing. The rep is excited to show us a new product, I look at it and say NOPE, not going to fix that. It was designed by a non-optician or by someone who hasn't been working with glasses in an office for a long period of time. That's a PIA just waiting to happen. Or a woman's sunglass with a 62 eyesize... I don't care how cool it looks go back to your 3rd point, the optics are going to be bad unless you are fitting a giant. If you don't have a game plan for how you are going to deal with wraps, don't buy wraps.

5. Find wrap lenses you like and use them exclusively, we have a separate price for wrap lenses.

On base curves for wraps: Whenever I haven't specified the base curve at our main lab for a wrap frame it's a 50% chance if the lab uses the correct base curve. So I've learned my lesson, anything that has any sort of a wrap go on the manufacturer's website find the bc and specify it when ordering. Wrong BC and they come back splayed like you were talking about.

1.74... just no. Our Essilor lab won't do 1.74 without a crizal coating on it because they say it scratches too much without it. It isn't as brittle as CR39, but its definitely not 1.67 either. Scratches and brittle. you'd be better off with a digital aspheric 1.67 most of the time, though you couldn't have done that with a wrapped frame, nothing would make that better for your patient.

I feel better. Thanks, people.

It might have helped a bit if you asked the not to make the bevel parallel to front and to put a 4 or 5 drop curve on it. That would have eliminated a lot of your issues.

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Originally Posted by Lensman11

It might have helped a bit if you asked the not to make the bevel parallel to front and to put a 4 or 5 drop curve on it. That would have eliminated a lot of your issues.

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Agree, you can edge a 4-5.50 or more bevel curve on high minus to match the frames wrap (or try to get close). The biggest issue is it can be fugly. You end up with a shelf out the front and back of the frame. The front shelf can be pretty apparent. Best to pull a Nancy and just say no.

I work with a lot of lindberg frames and a lot of high Rx patients. I would recommend always safety your grooves and use a silcone lens liner.

You must deal with pushy sometimes , but why over and over? I'm fine with telling people it's a bad idea, but I always have a good idea to present as an alternative. I'll agree 1.74 is brittle, but it's usually only used for thicker Rx's that are thick enough to make up for it. Just seems the way to address this particular job wasn't about index.

One of the most empowering realizations I've had in my career has been simply embracing the fact that I'm an expert. At this stage in my career, I'm not shy about telling patients "Your prescription won't work in this frame" and moving on immediately. Managing patient expectations is the most under-emphasized aspect of our work.

1.74 lenses can easily be broken in half with your hands. Super brittle. No amount of wrap compensation will make a flat base curve lens work with a high wrap frame.

There are wrap frames out there that use inserts and/or optical docks that will allow high minus RX to be usable.

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Originally Posted by AngeHamm

One of the most empowering realizations I've had in my career has been simply embracing the fact that I'm an expert. At this stage in my career, I'm not shy about telling patients "Your prescription won't work in this frame" and moving on immediately. Managing patient expectations is the most under-emphasized aspect of our work.

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100% Andrew. Thank you for reminding us of that.

We as a whole need to get more comfortable with saying "No." Just because it *CAN* be done, doesn't mean it should. If patients want to design their own glasses with whatever options they want while disregarding our advice, they can go online. And then when they get crappy glasses from the online opticals, they can come back and listen to a professional. Unfortunately I understand it doesn't always work that way, especially when you're not the boss or you work for a corporate chain where the customer is always right.

I have learned over time that the benefits of thinness don't always outweigh the downsides with 1.74 versus 1.67. It's usually not even people with super high RXs that insist on it either. I had a VSP patient who was a +5.00 OU whose husband was barking over her shoulder insisting that she needs 1.74 lenses. He was super aggressive. Before I worked in eyecare I would have had no idea what 1.74 index lenses were, so I don't even know how these people are aware of it. When I sell high index lenses, I don't give them the choice of which. I pick what I feel is appropriate and offer it. If someone insists on 1.74 I will tell them that it isn't appropriate for their script.

I have no problem saying no. I've had my share of people walk because I have refused to do something, I don't feel is going to work. I have always said, "If you have problems, I have problems, and I don't like problems!"

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Originally Posted by AngeHamm

...I'm not shy about telling patients "Your prescription won't work in this frame" and moving on immediately. Managing patient expectations is the most under-emphasized aspect of our work.

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I always tell pts what type of frames to stay away from when I see there prescription before they think they can have any candy from the candy store.

It is not recommended to use 1.74 lenses in metal grooves or rimless frames as they are prone to chipping easily.

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Originally Posted by iD

I always tell pts what type of frames to stay away from when I see there prescription before they think they can have any candy from the candy store.

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Yup. I'll tell them "I don't want you to fall in love with a frame that won't work with your vision."

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Originally Posted by Ellie.D

It is not recommended to use 1.74 lenses in metal grooves or rimless frames as they are prone to chipping easily.

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Some labs flatly refuse to drill 1.74. I have four pairs of drilled 1.74 and I've never had a problem. But of course I don't wear them all the time and I know to baby them.

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Originally Posted by CME4SPECS

I have no problem saying no. I've had my share of people walk because I have refused to do something, I don't feel is going to work. I have always said, "If you have problems, I have problems, and I don't like problems!"

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edit- ...I know is not going to work. :wink:

And every month or two I make the sale anyway and watch it come back to bite me!!!

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Originally Posted by AngeHamm

Yup. I'll tell them "I don't want you to fall in love with a frame that won't work with your vision."

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Great line

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Originally Posted by Uncle Fester

edit- ...I know is not going to work. :wink:

And every month or two I make the sale anyway and watch it come back to bite me!!!

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I do the same every once in awhile and I always kick myself when it happens.

I picked up "Style-prescription mismatch" from some astute person on here.

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Originally Posted by drk

I picked up "Style-prescription mismatch" from some astute person on here.

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That's good!