Anyone else read this article in the La-Times a few days ago?
https://www.latimes.com/business/laz...122-story.html
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Anyone else read this article in the La-Times a few days ago?
https://www.latimes.com/business/laz...122-story.html
not much meat on the bone of this article, extremely rehashed, lazy reporting with nothing new, no new insight (no pun intended) just same old blah blah about such expensive glasses. And Warby Parker is portrayed as a hero - did their marketing department write this "news" article? How about Zenni selling glasses for a tiny fraction of Warby's ripoff price? Warby is at least 10X more expensive than zenni - con artists I tell ya, hucksters.
in short they say:
Quote:
The average cost of a pair of frames is $ XXX, according to VSP, the leading provider of employer eye care benefits.
The average cost of a pair of single-vision lenses is $ XXX. Progressive, no-line lenses can run twice that amount.
The true cost of a pair of acetate frames — three pieces of plastic and some bits of metal — is as low as $ XX, according to some estimates. Check out the prices of Chinese designer knockoffs available online.
Lenses require precision work, but they are almost entirely made of plastic and almost all production is automated.
Why do glasses cost so damn much?
Because this industry has been getting away with fleecing people for decades.
And you don’t have to look hard to see this won’t change any time soon.
This would all be nothing, ....................if opticians and OD's would sell and charge their top class service and know how, separate from the frame and lenses.
In most other hands on professions there is a standard, to charge material and service separate. Why can that not be done in the optical retail trade, and the best, not the cheapest, would be the winners ?
The market continues to sort things out just like in most other industries. People have never had so much choice, anyone can buy glasses online for a few bucks, or they can spend to their heart's content. You think there is no competition in optical retail? really? Is Costco not a competitor? (jeez costco doesnt seem to compete in dentistry or accounting or law...maybe they should?) Maybe we should go Soviet/Cuban style, with empty dusty shelves and line ups but with super "affordable" glasses for all. Costs money, time, professionalism and a whole lot of risk taking to open, stock and run an independent optical retail. Bring on the Zennis, the Warby Parkers, deregulation and all the folks who want to compete, in the end everything will find its level and the market will decide. America is business. I wonder Chris, should Costco and Walmart, 2 rather large optical retailers, also sell at cost plus a fitting fee, or is your advice intended only to independent retailers...do you have other good advice for costco?
Fake news!
Well, just for starters, because there's a huge subset of consumers who only judge their purchase by how little they spent. Give them the option of shopping down the street at the chain shop that bundles everything together, thus concealing their service costs, and they'll take it.
They both exist in the optical retail because their industrial studies have shown that the markups in the optical retail business have always been excellent.
For them both and many others have decided to cut these 100 year old habitual markups to another level and they would make up the difference in increased sales.........and they did.
So what you are saying is - free market competition.....works? So what exactly is new here? Why can't independent ODs and Opticians just compete, what is this business model of charging people for adjustments and selling product at cost? Is Costco or Walmart doing this? Why would I NOT want to learn from what they do well, continue to do what I do better and just compete? Let the better overall price/quality/service win. Charging to adjust glasses is not a solution, and competition is not a problem.
Why don't you try to figure out WHY that is not done in the optical retail trade, rather then pound the table that it SHOULD be done in the optical retail trade? Don't you think the average independent retailer sees how the market is going and must adapt to the changing landscape? The real question is what are independents doing, what is working, what is not, and how are we taking on the online and offline challengers? Again, I don't think any of us will ever pay our rent by charging to bend temple tips and change nylor strings. Its sort of a silly argument, sorry. The market is huge, people are looking for different things, and I believe most independents are savvy enough to do just fine. There have never been more ads for eyewear - Zenni and WP are all over cable tv with ads - and somehow I have had a great January so far - maybe they are having a positive effect by raising awareness about going for an eye exam and getting folks thinking about eyewear. Let them continue to spend ad dollars, seems fine to me.
optimensch ......................great post and nothing wrong with it, however you are dealing with the present.
I have had a personal interest in the development of an optical company, as the then ESSEL, since the day in 1983-84 when I met their then President and his wife at the dock in New York Harbour, arriving on the new liner "FRANCE" to see if they could make a foothold in North America with a start in Canada.
That company under their new name has been successfully reshaping the optical world on the manufacturing side, and has made the move, to do the same thing in the retail market by fusing together with Luxottica to become the biggest and most influencing in a world wide sense, from manufacturing to the retail business on a world wide basis.
The present that is now, will be changing at a much faster speed as technical and commercial technology advances in every field, even in the optical retail where the happy patients of today will be replaced with younger generations that have a far different way of thinking and acting.
What has been the basic standard in a profession for the last hundred years will have to be adapted to more modern times in every way as we go along, or we will be at the losing end. Planning ahead of the game has never harmed anybody, but maybe could be of some benefit for many.
If you love fast food, and don't care about quality, just prices, then there are plenty of McDonalds, BurgerKings and Wendys to satisfy your lack of taste.
For the rest, there are quality restaurants and diners to fit every taste and budget.
We are here to provide you the knowledge, service and care that you deserve for your vision health.
Sure, we may cost more than America's Best and Warby Parker, but we provide better long term care, service and value, without McOptical wannabe templebenders.
Just saying, chicken little. The sky is falling?
LENSMANMD...........................I am in full agreement with your post ...................... as it is right now.
If you watch the happenings in the trade as they are showing up on the internet at a fast pace these days, and convert them to actual live, you will have to admit that there are big changes in the doing that will affect the whole business cycle in the near future.
I was born into this profession and had to learn it the hard way, from apprenticeship to top class schooling as directed and paid for by my parents, worked as an optician in the store, then changed to become a successful frame distributor for close to 20 years, and then went to become a manufacturer of lens treatments for another 20 years. So I have been around for a while.
If you don't look into the future as it is happening now at a fast pace, and make adjustments. you might get caught with your pants down and become a looser.
Do you have a date for this mighty fall of the independent optical, Nostradamus. Or even a timeline? Succession of events? A decade that it might happen in? You've been preaching about the optical doomsday that is just around the corner for years now, when it is happening? The Essilux merger is going to pinch off the bottom of the market not the top, not the well qualified strong independent. Yet you seem to want to convince all of us we should open mall kiosks making adjustments for a living. I would love to see your business model for that btw, and a project P&L. How many nose pads do you need to sell, and adjustments do you need to make to break even.
Kwill,
Chris is old school with a Google addiction. He is a retired doomsday prophet and isn’t grounded in independent philosophy.
However, his posts do make us think and react. Perhaps, that is not all bad?
Happened to catch a "How It's Made" episode on cable yesterday where they covered how acetate frames are made.
Well done and showed the process start to finish.
Concluded with a statement that there are 70 separate procedures used to make a frame and half of them are done by hand.
Brand was STATE.
Kwill....................................... To answer your post I will repeat again what I have said for a long time, and then maybe you might understand.
I have never said and not meant, what you are writing about. In short, my idea that probably could work, is that you could split up your present total markup a different way and not make a penny less.
To price the frames at a competitive cost, to attract customers. Then sell them a service package to finish the job, that contains everything you want to include, more revenue or warranties for frames, from lenses to warranties on them, adjustments and maybe even minor repairs along the way for a certain time period you set and decide the details.
It is an idea that just might work ..........................
I am aware of this, but should I just ignore it? Is optiboard somehow more Chris's than mine? What would we do if there were 2 or 10 or 20 retired google addicts posting 5-10 repeat topics with lack of substance every day? Should I "go along to get along", or should I voice my opinion of opposition? I think I'll stick with the latter, within the rules of optiboard.
Thank you lensmanmd for your kind post.
..................................whatever crosses my mind or some news, I check out on the web and often also on this Forum, and then make some comments I think of.
I am a retired well educated optician, formerly several business owner in retail, wholesale and also in the manufacturing sector.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Ryser
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Ryser
..........................by going through some of my late post's, I came to this one, which actually became side tracked by another member, who seemingly did not like it, and tried to kill it.
However, now with with our latest and newest member on optiBoard being an active and open an minded former, online optical employee, I believe I can continue the thread, as it has become technically active again.
The ignore button is your friend.
Chris;
Don't you think you'll have some pretty ****** off customers when using your pricing formula who return with a broken frame and are told that since they did not purchase the service package they will have to shell out another $$$ for a new frame after making the original purchase only months previous?
Regards,
Golfnorth
.............if you would use my proposed formula of selling the frame at rock bottom price without the service package. I would show him that he signed off the purchase of the service package, that includes any warranty and guarantee on the job......................and that would settle the case.
However if there is a factory warranty for the breakage of whatever happened by the manufacturer, and by the distributor, it would be honored.
Very simple and fair solution.
Not a chance that customer ever comes back. I would guess that 90% of the people that came in to a store like Chris is proposing would immediately leave, head to the internet and leave terrible reviews for the business. I would imagine something like this:
"I went to buy new glasses today at Doomsday Optical, It was terrible! First of all their selection was awful, the frames looked like they were kids toys that I could have found at the drugstore, or given away at the downtown 10k I ran last week(personal best time btw). They just felt super cheap. Whatever. My insurance told me this place was in my network so I figured I would give it a try. I picked out the least offensive looking frame there. When I said they felt kind of loose on my head and were crooked, the rude person there told me he would fix it but It would cost me $20!!!!! OMG, no, just no. So it seems their scam is to get you in the door with their "rock bottom prices" and then nickel and dime you to death with extra charges and fees. The guy even tried to get me to sign some stupid waiver with fees and prices on it. So, every time this flimsy frame needs to be tightened, which seems like it would be every other day, they are going to charge me $20? I don't think so. I won't ever be going there again, and neither will any of my friends!
Chris;
Your formula of pricing will reduce the volume of stores that implement it IMHO. Please note that there is nobody that has publicly stated that they are using this or any similar way of pricing product despite being asked. With a decrease in volume (I don't believe people will pay for all the extra warranties and services) plus by the time you explain it anyone waiting with an rx in their hand may decide to go elsewhere as they were waiting too long to be served. With internet penetration around 15% why dramatically change pricing at this point in time?
Since you've been on this rant my business has done nothing but increase and I will not be using your pricing model.
Regards,
Golfnorth
Great points. At some point, at least as far as optical goes, I wonder whether online purchases will soon reach terminal velocity - after all these years of being available outside of b/m channels (online and 1-800 etc. before that), we still sell contact lenses. As more folks give on line a try, they will also realize the myriad benefits of shopping in a real store with real service and more than just cheap private label frames. Believe it or not, we sell eyewear to folks who already have purchased from WP. Imagine that.
Excellent points. The same is true for me.
Recently, I had a long term customer who came in for his yearly glasses update. Keep in mind we don't do exams, he gets his Rx elsewhere and comes into us for glasses. He bought two very nice pair... both progressive, one clear, one sunglass. While he's in the shop he asks me if I'll adjust the pair he bough online at Zenni. Of course I did... they did NOT fit him well and looked, imho, pretty silly. I asked him how much they were and he laughed and said, they were something like $99. Frame, lenses, AR, the works, delivered for $99. Damn! I asked how he liked them, and he replied he was just curious and had to give them a try. Said they're usable and they're an ok 'back-up' pair but he said they don't compare at all to what I make him. Fair enough, and a good learning experience for both of us.
Second story. Had a lady yesterday pick-up 5 pair of glasses. She bought 2 new complete pair and had me put new lenses in 3 of her own. One was a WP frame with grey polarized lenses. They BC was terrible for the frame, way too flat. It flattened the frame out and made it fit poorly. I did a much better job and it turned out much, much better and I pointed it out to her and she seemed appreciative.
Who would have thunk it!? Brick and mortar and online living in harmony!? And, two customers who tried different onlines and came back to see me!? Maybe doomsday isn't so certain... :rolleyes:
Let us all take a long step backwards in time..............
LensCrafters came to town. OMG, we can't compete with their one hour service. What will we do to survive? Re-think your business model. They did, and they more than survived. Some added in house edging, added products that LC did not carry, created value that LC could not. They survived.
LensCrafters now takes vision insurance. OMG, that is our ace in the hole. What will we do to survive? See above statement. They survived.
LensCrafters uses so many hi-tech devices that we can't afford. OMG, what will we do to survive? Work with your vendors, train your staff, provide a higher knowledge base. They survived.
People, this isn't commodity warehouse pricing. On-line has its limitations. Our job is to overcome and exploit these limitations.
Same with W/P. I agree with Fes. One day, another brand will pop up and we will be sweating over that one.
Point is, this is your business. This is your sweat equity. Be smart and be fluid. Don't stick to the "This is always the we did things", why? Because times, they are a changing.
Is the sky falling? Perhaps, to some degree. Build an umbrella to shield your business. Provide value with knowledge, products and services that on-line sellers do not. And no, value does not mean cheap. Those that don't will eventually get crushed be the fallout.
Time to let the Warby Parker thread die. We have more important things to think about, like how to build that umbrella.
Happy weekend, all.
If You believe that by letting the WP thread die, the problem is solved, is like dreaming in colors ..............................
Nobody mentioned the Essilor notice I posted last week right here on optiBoard, .................about Essilor, that is purchasing:
Essilor signed an agreement to acquire 100% of Brille24 GmbH. The latter is one of the leading online retailers of optical products in Germany, with an annual revenue of close to €25 million. (25 million Euros = US $ 28.34 million).
That is a far more important issue for the professional optical retail sector on a worldwide basis, initiated by the world's largest optical manufacturer and supplier, which is another link in the chain to finally strangle a profession.
Only if you put your eggs in the Essilux basket. Many of us do most of our business elsewhere. That is how we strengthen our umbrella. Just so you know, there are many independent labs opening nationwide due to Essilor buying up established labs. Some are even breaking the Essilor chains and going independent! Yes, you heard that right....kicking ESS to the curb. The feeling amongst these operators, enough is enough. My umbrella is very sturdy, thank you.
Chris, you might want to spend some time researching this, instead of everything WP and Essilor. Independents are here to stay, and growing, BTW.
We replaced WP FF PALs with our own, and just for giggles, I mapped the WP and ours on the VX40. Unfortunately, we are too small to afford an AR mapper. If I have time, I'll post some pics of them later. There is a reason WP buyers come to us for replacement lenses.
....................actually I am not researching anything or anybody, it is all there and available.
The WP got my interest through their suddenly, heavily increased speed of growth and advertising, a few months ago, so I looked into it.
Essilor's American and World wide progress has had my own personal interest for over 40 years, and I have kept tabs on it, and periodically posted on it over the years, right here on optiBoard.
Independent opticians, according to official figures are on a downtrend to 14 % (not confirmed) at this time.
Lensmanmd……..yes I agree and I certainly do 95% of my lab business non-Essilor. As for Lux....I only carry RayBan and guess what?
My business up substantially! Last fiscal was our best year ever and this year we are flying out of the gate.
Unfortunately Chris doesn't understand that you can thrive without using Essilux.
Regards,
Golfnorth
see historical collection of posts, at:
https://www.optiboard.com/forums/member.php/44592-Quig
I’ve not seen a survey that definitively states 14% of market share is independent Optician owned opticals, but judging from my metro area (Houston), it’s way lower than that. We are over saturated with opticals, I’ve got 20+ within 5 miles of my main location. But, in all the metro area, I can count the Optician owned locations on less than one hand. Two I know of do unbelievably well, multi million. One’s luxury,the other specializes in pediatric (then captures the parents as clients).
It’s been tough for years now to be an independent Optician, and it’s not getting easier. As with the 2 examples I gave above, you better specialize and be the best there is in that specialty. Know the demographics of your expected market you wish to cater to, locate there, prominently! Your location can make or break you. If you don’t have referring Dr’s you better be some place with high foot traffic ( that means expensive).
Some of us fought years ago to elevate Opticianry, to create opportunities to be independent. But unfortunately, we’re an apathetic bunch. I dare say, our ship has sailed. I applaud those Opticians out there making it....Their way. You’re a rare bunch. Kudos!
There are currently 21 states that require dispensing opticians to hold a license. Vision care centers do not have one universal certification that is required, although 28% of employers require their opticians to be certified, according to the American Board of Opticianry.
https://www.mercatus.org/system/file...nLicensing.pdf
and
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...KfM7j8itlQlO2M:
Chris;
It doesn't clear any air at all.
Again I ask you to post the link to your assertion that independent opticians market share is 14%.
Why do you post this stuff if it isn't true?
Why are you misleading this thread and this community?
Why do you play such games?