The "new" VSP??

[paw]

I agree.

[rep]

Insurance vs mnaged care

I agree too. Many plans are based on capatation. (Ours are not) That means that they are betting that fewer will get services than pay for services. Not a lot of difference than life insurance.


PAW
Discontinued means just what it says that this particular frame is not going to be made any more and some time in the future there won't be any more. Not that we don't have anymore now. In fact many times discontinued items that are overstocked are sold as POM's (phased out merchandise) at less than half off. Things are run a little differently here because we manufacturer what we sell, where as an importer has different issues.

Sorry I don't buy it. Your telling me you never have a part or replacement you cant get. If so, your defying logic, must less a 30 years of experience from a lot of different accounts and operations....... If so your the first. Ta Daaaa.......

I recommend that you might consider changing your pitch because no manufacturer, that I am aware of, warranties frames from the time they are purchased by the consumer. The are warrantied based on the time sold to you the retailer. Check with your frame vendors and they will sheepshly admit that is the case. The reverse would allow you to keep a frame on the board for years and then sell it and maintain that the warranty just started.

Point taken regarding raising prices. If you can stand the competative price shopping that occurs with todays savy consumer raise them higher, but why were they lower to begin with?

J.
Again your acting like the employee has no choice and is forced by their employer to pay for these plans. I can assure you that is not the case with the majority of todays managed vision care employees.

Your doc may be shorting herself with a $40 usual and customary fee. I say that because many managed care plans pay $45-55 dollars and if her usual and customary fee is only $40 that's all she will be reimbursed because she has a usual and customary fee that is lower than the plan pays. Yikes!!!!

Thats why I suspect she charges a different price for private pay patients so she won't get killed by a low usual and customary exam fee.

[paw]

Rep, you said,

"Sorry I don't buy it. Your telling me you never have a part or replacement you cant get. If so, your defying logic, must less a 30 years of experience from a lot of different accounts and operations....... If so your the first. Ta Daaaa......."

I just remembered that there have been 2 times I can think of that a frame was discontinued within the span of time between when the pt bought the frame to when he needed something under warranty. It rarely happens, believe it or not. I think having a good frame rep helps, because he will take the frame off the board when it's just starting to be phased out. Also, while we keep re-ordering the best-sellers, we also order a lot of brand new styles that won't be discontinued any time soon.

You also said, "I recommend that you might consider changing your pitch because no manufacturer, that I am aware of, warranties frames from the time they are purchased by the consumer. The are warrantied based on the time sold to you the retailer. Check with your frame vendors and they will sheepshly admit that is the case. The reverse would allow you to keep a frame on the board for years and then sell it and maintain that the warranty just started."

No, no, no! It doesn't matter how long the frame is on the board. As long as it is a CURRENT frame, the mfr will warranty the frame. For example: the Luxottica Director frame. It's been around for years and years, but it's still current. What's the difference if the same frame is on the board for 10 years and I finally sell it to a patient, or if I just bought the frame yesterday and sell it to a patient. It's still current and it has a 2-year warranty. Now, suppose the Director had been discontinued last year, and I sell it to the patient (except I wouldn't because we don't sell discontinued frames), then I couldn't say to the patient that it has a 2 year warranty because it doesn't -- it's discontinued.

You also said, "Point taken regarding raising prices. If you can stand the competative price shopping that occurs with todays savy consumer raise them higher, but why were they lower to begin with?"

The reason our prices were lower to begin with is because we are trying to be attractive to our self-pay patients. At any price point one could say, why are your prices here and not $5 more? Providers find a point where they can charge the highest price and attract the highest number of patients. If you can increase the price without losing a substantial number of patients, then you found your new point. Hopefully we will have our new point rather than losing patients.

[Jana Lewis]

Hey Guys and Gals;

After reading this entire thread regarding VSP, I thought I might add that VSP strongly advises against selling discontinued frames, in fact they will tell their enrollees not to purchase them either.

[Johns]

Hey Guys & Gals !!

Guess what ? The best way to make $$$$ w/ VSP is to sell discontinued frames !! Buy them as discontinued, sell them as new. They're still in the Frames book, if they break you can give them another discontinued frame !! It's good enough for our VSP customers, but not for our cash pays. (NO, we don't do it, but I know many who do.) What a bargain their VSP customers think they're getting.


VSP has created a wonderful optical eutopia!!

[kaippers]

v s p

I have worked for opticals that take v s p, i have owned my own business and did not take v s p, I now work for an optical that does not take v s p.
1. I have concluded that insurance customers give you a customer base that hopefully will cover your fixed expenses.
2. When I had my own business I would have killed for a v s p customer base.
3.Customers with vision benifets return for vision care on a more frequent basis then those with out it.
4.For the last five years I thought the consumers would start dropping their eye benifets because of the rising costs of medical insurance.
5.If you are a v s p provider and want to drop out how are you going to replace that customer base.
6. Can you compete with someone that is open seven days a week, conveinant location, and spends a million dollars alone in your state for advertisement.

[Joann Raytar]

Re: v s p

kaippers said:

3.Customers with vision benifets return for vision care on a more frequent basis then those with out it.

We actually just started a program this week to see if VSP patients would return for second pairs. Basically, we are just offering VSP members a little better discount on second pairs then their normal 20% off.

[Johns]

kaippers,


1. What profit base are you losing ? The bottom line matters more than the size of your patient files, or the number of times your front door opens and closes.

2. If there is a need, staff can be added to make anyone's store hours more convenient.

3. You are millions of $$ ahead by not having to advertise like they do.

[varmint]

Re: discontinued frames

rep said:

Since my company warranties any frame from two years from date of purchase no matter if it is discontinued or not.

Well, I sure wouldn't count on that warranty. My Lux acct has been inactive for over 2 years as Lux has never issued credit to me for returned product. I even have proof of delivery with a signature from UPS. Any time I get a rep to my office I show this to them & they say, "I'll get this fixed for you.", then I never hear from them again. Sure wish I could provide such rotten customer service & still grow.
Back on subject, anyone who hasn't been in practice & dealing with insurance companies during the last 3-5 years wouldn't be aware of how things have changed & are affecting the eyewear industry. Texas Ranger & Paw do know what they are talking about.
Sorry, two sore subjects for me.
jim

[Texas Ranger]

Guys, I just re-read this entire post, and basically it's pretty sad that our whole eyecare industry has been repaetedly raped by the insurance companies for the last decade or so. and we have lost any "free market" competition, since the only way the standards of most optical mass retailers could otherwise survive is that they are the exclusive providers of some insurance program...most of you would be surprised that there is an optical market of eyewear consumers that would prefer to deal with competent opticians, spend the time now being used to fill out claim forms, for proper fitting and frame styling, and to deal with an "optician" instead of an "insurance clerk". we as eyecare professionals and our clientele are both being victimized, so some of us have put us in the position to be "squeezed" by VSP or whomever. we don't work for ourselves, we don't work for our clients, we work for an insurance company, we're ruled by a set of rules that only frustrate all the parties involved in the eyecare process, the ones getting and providing care, which the insurance companies do neither.. a fellow called me last week, upset that his companies lack of full reimbursement, because he went to an out of net. provider (us). who does he complain to: told him to go straight to his HR director, complain loud and clear, the HR directors are the folks creating these problems of providing this "eyecare benefit". but we can only blame us, say, why do I have to sell product to non-insured patients for much more that insured patients? why do I have to pay alll the cost of finling for reimbursement, it's their insureance? so, maybe folks should have covverage, let them pay us for our services, then let them deal with their insurance companies for whatever reimbursement is coming...just think about whether we can afford to contimue doing this? VSP providers have my truest sympathy...

[R10957]

VSP

We have been a VSP provider for years.

:) I can say that if you take 10 customers, plug the No's into the particular plan that VSP has, and they have many, then see what No'S you come up with.

Vsp Patients usually spend more on options and go for the mid to upper frames. That is for us. A pie chart I remember seeing recently puts VSP on the top or close to No1 in all Catagorys.

They have many provider programs to help you, and the poeple that you can call with almost any privder situation that you may have questions on.

VSP isnt the largest % of our business, but it is equally profitable to groups that take up more chairtime.

Rev :cheers:

[LGlover623]

Some thoughts from both sides of the table on VSP

As an optical industry veteran of 13 years, I have compiled a wide variety of experience on my resume. Most recently, I worked as a practice administrator and frame buyer for a 7 location private practice for several years while I completed my business degree. Recently, I acquired my first job on the other side of the table as a field account manager for Altair Eyewear, a subsidiary of VSP.

I was not surprised to read some of the threads regarding complaints and issues with VSP. As a dispenser, I had some of the same headaches, and as an administrator, I saw the same dwindling profit margins. However, now that I've become versed on all the advantages of being a VSP provider, I realized I had it all wrong.

A few noteworthy facts:
-VSP was created to promote the private practice OD and MD. In this day and age, with all of us losing more cash-paying patients (and insurance patients) to the retailers/mass merchandisers, we need all the help we can to keep those exam chairs filled. VSP does provide an extensive member patient base (over 36 million)
to help you do just that. Did you know that since 1998 retailers have gained nearly 3% in market share or $950 million? (2000 Health Products Research Study, Vision Information Services Consumer Report, Jobson Optical). This translates to roughly $25,000 for every private practice eye doctor in the country! VSP's mission is to partner with private practice to help stop this shift in our industry from private practice to retail.

-The VSP private practice partnership has several beneficial aspects:
-VSP's large national presence allows us to compete in the industry on your behalf.
-The Board and State Professional Committee Representatives for VSP are private-practice optometrists themselves.
-The affiliated companies of VSP (Altair, Eyefinity, Lab) were created to support the success of private practice.
-Your partnership with VSP creates a competitive edge for your practice because VSP patients are more loyal and visit your practice more often than the industry average.

We must all realize that the optical industry is changing. We do not want to happen to our industry what has happened to the pharmaceutical industry. When was the last time you saw a privately-owned pharmacy? Is there not a new Walgreens or CVS on every corner now? The private pharmacist lost out because of the retail chains and their appeal to the time-strapped, and value-conscious consumers; not to mention the purchasing power of the retail giants.

So, take some time to realize that VSP is on your side. We are not trying to control the industry or your practice. It is in all our best interest that the private practice is successful and profitable.

Some additional comments:

-In my experience as a dispenser, my typical VSP patient was very willing and able to purchase premium frames and lenses as well as multiple pairs because of the substantial benefit he was getting with his VSP plan. Don't forget also, that most patients are eligible for exam and lenses every year, so that helps to increase your frequency of patient visits as well as gives you an opportunity to sell a retail frame on the off-year. The more times a patient comes into your office, the more opportunity you have to sell additional pairs. By promoting the value of the VSP savings to the patient, they are more willing to consider using that money they saved to make additional purchases.

-There are also many benefits available to you through VSP's family of companies as a VSP provider. For instance, through Eyefinity there are programs like Frame Connect which offers you best discounts, extended warranties, and increased marketing exposure to VSP members in your area. You can also receive a free website on Eyefinity. Through Altair, VSP's frame company, for whom I work, you can recieve no cost inventory, increased payments on all your VSP claims through the Partnership Plus program, as well as EXCELLENT quality product. Did you know most of our frames have an UNCONDITIONAL LIFETIME WARRANTY? Altair has one of the lowest defect rates in the industry at less than 0.5%. With 2 liscenced brands in our collection, United Colors of Bennetton and Revlon, patented technology designs, and a wide variety of price points, adding Altair to your dispensary will only enhance the benefits of your VSP partnership.

Hope this hasn't sounded like too much of a sales pitch. Having been on both sides of the dispensing table-dispenser/buyer, and sales rep-now, I've been able to put things in a little different perspective.

[gilweber]

Re: Some thoughts from both sides of the table on VSP

LGlover623 said:

A few noteworthy facts:
-VSP was created to promote the private practice OD and MD.

Hope this hasn't sounded like too much of a sales pitch. Having been on both sides of the dispensing table-dispenser/buyer, and sales rep-now, I've been able to put things in a little different perspective.

Hmmmm.... An interesting post full of partial truths. Way too many to comment upon -- would take a post as long as the original.

A noteworthy fact for you. When VSP was created in 1955 there was no thought given to promoting ophthalmologists, and in all the years since VSP has **not** been about promoting ophthalmology. Try making your statement with a straight face to any dispensing or sub-specialist ophthalmologist who's had to deal with VSP or tried to deal with them.

And you hope your post is not too much of a sales pitch? ROTFLMAO!

:bbg:

[Jana Lewis]

With all due respect Lglover623, Altair has got to be the most ugly, boring frame line out there! My practice tried Altair, and I cannot tell you how many people scrunched their noses at them. They are ugly, cheap and not well made. I have many other lines that claim to have "EXCELLENT" quality, funny thing is they do....and do I really want a patient that has a Lifetime unconditional warranty? How does that help me have the ability to sell a new frame to them next time around? I'm sorry, but I think that the VSP program with altair just stinks, it's just another way to put more money in the pockets of the insurer. :finger:

[klewless70503]

Just wanted to address a point that I see LGlover623 making that I think is important. Not about VSP specifically, but about insurance in general.

There seems to be a common misunderstanding amongst some eyecare professionals that if VSP "went away", this would be the best thing that ever happened to the optical/optometric industry.

I want to point out that if this happened, there would be a dozen other insurers to step in and fill the void. From what I read on the posts about insurance, it seems that no one is thrilled with any of the major players out there...Cole, EyeMed, Spectera, etc.

Insurance is not going away! Employers like to offer it as a perk to attract and retain employees, just like health insurance or dental insurance. The best companies have to offer vision benefits to stay competitive...employees expect it now as a part of their compensation.

So, my caution is this...imagine the insurance plans you currently do not take because there is no demand (i.e., no patients in your area). Now, imagine that VSP "disappears" and other insurers rush in to pick up the business. Now, you have a decision to make. Your dream came true...VSP is gone. But now you have some other insurance company to deal with, and let's hope you like them more than VSP...unlikely, right? Chances are, you will like them less. Keep in mind that people talk negatively about the plans they accept...what about the plans they refuse to accept, due to lowest reimbursements, aggregious rules to abide by (like frame collections), and slow processing/poor customer service/slow reimbursement to your office.

Now imagine that insurance goes away all together. What LGlover623 is trying to point out (I think), is that all those patients who were used to getting discounts on their exam and eyewear are going to look for the next best value from a cost-perspective. I'm not even going into quality here...let's just talk dollars, because patients are now consumers concerned with getting the "best deal" on a pair of designer frames.

Where do they go? What do you think an uninformed patient's perspective is? How 'bout "Two pairs for $99!" You know what I'm talking about. All those colorful ads in the Sunday paper and on TV offering "$100 off complete glasses", and so on and so forth. Fast service; the perception of low prices (we all know what happens when they get there); and convenient locations.

The industry is changing. Successful independents will exploit a niche to survive. I see people talking about it all the time on this board. Offer what the chains don't...in both product and service. Instead of working for insurance, make insurance work for you.