So, you combine this with a robotic fitting tool, and voila no more dispensing opticians?
Oh wait a minute, I guess it would likely be cheaper to hire a DO, than to buy such a system.
;)
-Keith
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VirtualOptician: Project for student/hobbyist with PC or Mac
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Putting a wrap on it
Originally posted by rbakerAn interesting academic exercise that would more illustrate the problems associated with AI [artificial intelligence] in the real world than provide a tool to assist the eye care dweeb in lens selection. ALL programming is "rule-based", so there is nothing here to advance software engineering. The core issue would be the definition of the “rules” or algorithms and the quantification of those values. Cripes! We can’t even agree on a simple definition here on OptiBoard - much less a common heuristic that all users could agree on and that would be valid in all cases.
Another one of my points (and again, with my out of date Mac, I can only suggest it, without being able to confirm any of it myself) is that with CLIPS (or another rule-based programming tool), it should be much easier to undertake this project, than it would be using the more commonly known approach of straightforward "C" language programming. With CLIPS (etc.), the uniquely optical part of the project could be isolated from all of the other general software problems that attend the development of any sizable computer program. Running the program with realistic input data and examining the output (lens or lens and frame selections) would be a way of confirming the validity of the optical expertise, as expressed in the "rules" database.
The project could also be taken up by an undergraduate level IT or computer engineering student. In that case, the focus would shift to the software side of the equation; for example, which of the various rule-based programming tools is actually the best one to use for this purpose? How many different kinds of information could be processed? Could they (for example) develop a practical way to process the same information that is used to create the OLA's yearly catalog of progressive lenses? And the optician's exact knowledge would move to the background: It would serve only as a realistic test case for proving the software technologies.
As I said at the very top (of the thread), I put this forward as an idea for a student project. I've seen them come up on this forum from time to time, looking for a project. WRT whether more of the optician's job should be automated ("streamlined" might be a better word), or whether this could be used to facilitate more of those online optical shops: I am not trying to forward any of those particular ideas.Last edited by rinselberg; 02-05-2006, 06:19 AM.
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Actually, I don't think it would be a bad idea for those really "crazy" jobs you get every once in a while (-15.00 / 72 pd type of thing) those fitting challenges that can drive you nuts trying to visual what the end result will be ... :hammer:
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Retirement project...................
Originally posted by Darryl MeisterCertainly, tools like this would be most useful to dispensers without a great deal of experience or expertise.
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Virtual Phoropter training CD
Originally posted by ShwingSorta off topic, but not much & for what it is worth, the Registered Opticians Association of Texas (ROATx) created a 'virtual phoropter' a few years ago... http://www.roatx.org/
Natonal Academy of Opticianry
For questions concerning the Virtual Phoroptor, or to request a demo CD, contact Sam Johnson with the Registered Opticians Association of Texas (ROATx) at 512/657-2020. Contact the NAO to order the Virtual Phoroptor. $299 for NOA members, $350 all others.
ROATx
The "Virtual Phoroptor" interactive refraction/ophthalmic optics training CD is now selling for $350.00; as a member of ROATx or an OAA member, you can save $70 ... This is a great practice, skill development and training tool in the Art and Science of Ophthalmic Optics. Call or email ROATx to order.
http://www.roatx.org/ (under "Activities")Last edited by rinselberg; 02-01-2006, 02:44 AM.
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Sorta off topic, but not much & for what it is worth, the Registered Opticians Association of Texas (ROATx) created a 'virtual phoropter' a few years ago... http://www.roatx.org/
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I'm a software engineer, but whether I would have the time or the energy to help out is something else.
What would be great is some software where you type in the rx and select a particular lense and the software generates an on screen image representing (roughly) the vision that the individual patient would have with that particular lense! Then you could scroll through lots of different lense designs, best form, aspheric, atoric, etc. from lots of different manufacturors and see what looks best!!! In addition, you could compare the off-axis vision of a 1.6 to a 1.74, or a low abbe 1.6 (33) to a higher abbe 1.6 (42). You could also see the effects of prescribed prism, i.e. the differing amounts of color seperation for differing amounts of prism. And what would be really useful is if you could compare the off-axis vision for a patient with high cyl rx through an aspheric and an atoric!!!
Now this I would be interested in! I expect similar software already exists in labs but would be too technical and non user friendly to run in the store.
This would also be very useful for helping customers like me that come in to your store whining about the vision in the thier new 1.74's.:D :D :D
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Originally posted by QDOand so would a course teaching them how to do it properly
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Originally posted by Darryl MeisterCertainly, tools like this would be most useful to dispensers without a great deal of experience or expertise.
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Certainly, tools like this would be most useful to dispensers without a great deal of experience or expertise.
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An interesting academic exercise that would more illustrate the problems associated with “AI” in the real world than provide a tool to assist the eye care dweeb in lens selection. All programming is *rule based” so there is nothing here to advance software engineering. The core issue would be the definition of the “rules” or algorithms and the quantification of those values.
Cripes! We can’t even agree on simple definition here on OptiBoard much less a common heuristic that all users could agree on and that would be valid in all cases.
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Originally posted by AdamLens Manufacturers would love this thing. Optician inputs Rx, frame type, lifestyle questions.... computer thinks.... ding!..... SolaONE HD 1.67 Transitions V w/ ESP Gray and Teflon Easycare AR Coating!
In all seriousness though, any lens design and availability data can be stored in the PDA, though I imagine that it has been used primarily for AO and SOLA product. It uses a relatively sophisticated algorithm to recommend progressive lens designs based both on relevant optical measurements from each lens design and the wearer's prescription, lifestyle, frame, and previous lens type information.
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Originally posted by Darryl MeisterSOLA (now Carl Zeiss Vision) actually created a PDA-based dispensing tool like this several years ago. It's called the iPilot, and is in use in Europe, Australia, and a few other countries. I should add that, while it makes lens and treatment recommendations based on lifestyle, frame, and Rx data, its primary function is to configure a free-form progressive lens design.
:)
Adam
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SOLA (now Carl Zeiss Vision) actually created a PDA-based dispensing tool like this several years ago. It's called the iPilot, and is in use in Europe, Australia, and a few other countries. I should add that, while it makes lens and treatment recommendations based on lifestyle, frame, and Rx data, its primary function is to configure a free-form progressive lens design.
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