The French

[Night Train]

OK, please understand, I am the LAST person on earth who would EVER stereotype ANYBODY. I just have a "question" about the French. Or at least the Leaders of the French Nation. (And Pete.....I have NOTHING against Essilor!) Why is it that everytime I read about some rogue nation that gets all of its money by selling some illicit product Like Conflict Diamonds, Rare & Exotic Rain Forest Timber or Iraquian Oil......that the usual buyer is the French? Are they that desperate? Are they that numb?

Je ne sai pas!?!?!:hammer:

[chm2023]

When did Iraqi oil become "illicit"?

It's easy to become impatient with our French friends (notice how all this is put on the French, but somehow the Germans are held less responsible?), but isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle?

[John R]

Lets put it like this....Who is zee closest to Iraq.......
I too have no sympathy for the froggies as they want to have everything their way.....but for once they have got a point...

[Steve Machol]

The French saved our butts in the Revolutionary War. Just a thought! :)

[hcjilson]

My son forwarded this to me yesterday

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an
accordion." Anonymous


And that is coming from a francophile who spent a few summers growing up in France in the home of an architech and an optician.

They should be ashamed of their behaviour of late.

Steve you will find a reasonably accurate account of French assistance during the Revolutionary war in McCulloch's John Adams and also In Shaara's Rise to Rebellion While it is true the French Fleet coming up from the Carribian was largly the reason for Cornwallis surrendering at Yorktown, the fact remains that France shed little blood and their assistance was basically financial.If it hadn't have been for the Dutch we wouldn't have made it on France's significant but less than we needed contribution. And THAT only came in order to weaken England.

Respectfully submitted

harry j

[Steve Machol]

True, but if it hadn't been for the French fleet blocking Cornwallis' escape, then the British would have regrouped and probably never surrendered.

[chm2023]

It all comes down to self interest, n'est-ce pas? Caught a bit of CNN interview with Bill Clinton. He made some good points re the Iraq situation, to whit: the best possible outcome of war with Iraq is disarming Saddam et al AND coming out of it with a stronger alliance of nations who are willing to work together to contain the baddies using an array of methods, including military. The best way to ensure this is to allow Blix the time he is asking for (no real drawback, the military buildup can continue, still weeks away from completion). He will doubtless announce that Iraq has the weapons or they have blocked the inspection effort. In either case, the UN will likely give the go-ahead. Even if they don't, the US really doesn't need another resolution. This way allows for the moral high ground and maintains better relations with allies. Think this is a much more thoughtful approach than the administation seems to be pursuing.

[Optician]

I believe the large sums of money the French aristocracy invested in the American Revolution was a contributing factor to the onset of the French Revolution, no?

Of course, contributions to our Revolution might have had a lot to do with whom we were fighting (the French have never particularly gotten along with the Brits). Oddly enough, the country that assisted us in defeating the British is acting very un-ally-like, while the country we wrested ourselves from is one of our strongest allies! Funny how history works!

As I recall, when we bombed Lybia in the 1980's, France refused to let our fighters fly through their airspace (resulting in a circuitous route around their country).

[Bev Heishman]

How much money did France receive for reparations after WWII?

It must be perfume that clouds their ability to think!

:D

[John R]

Steve Machol said:
True, but if it hadn't been for the French fleet blocking Cornwallis' escape, then the British would have regrouped and probably never surrendered.

Now i remember why i hate the french.......

At least the French will do what they want not what some Bush says......
As Sandy Shaw sangI'm a puppet on a string
Sorry folks but the debate in the UK is turning more ANTI by the second......
Even the scare tatics by the goverment by bring out the troops in London, telling us to stock up on food stuffs etc is having the opposite affect.
As John Lennon sang Give peace a chance

[hcjilson]

If I'd have known there were so many....

If I'd have known there were so many history buffs in our number, I would have suggested a history forum!

John, I hope John Lennon wasn't refering to "Peace in our time". With all due respect to those of us in favor of a peacefull solution to the problem in Iraq......the time for appeasement is over. Twelve years is long enough for the World to disarm, never mind one country! Peace has been given more than a chance in this case and hopefully will get one more after todays report to the UN by Inspector Clouseau. Barring anything startling coming from that, the game is up! Saddam must go by any means necessary to affect that........ Sad but true.

hj

[Pete Hanlin]

Sorry folks but the debate in the UK is turning more ANTI by the second......

For a long time, I have been doubtful about our need to visit Iraq again.

Now I believe we should say "Thanks, but no thanks" to the few real allies we have left (which will leave the Brits off the hook) and go in absolutely alone. The day after we expunge Saddam, we should formally withdraw from the United Nations and respectfully request that they relocate the Headquarters to some meaningless location. If the UN is still around in a month, we should padlock the doors and cancel the Visas. Someone has to call this charade to an end.

Like the League of Nations before it, the UN has shown itself to be exactly what it has been for some time- meaningless and irrevelent. As such, it does not deserve to waste everyone's time and money pittering away time in NYC. Move it to someplace appropriately removed from the real world, like Switzerland.

With all due respect to the rest of the world, America doesn't really require (nor actually want) your assistance. We have been bending over backwards to be polite and allow you to retain some dignity and self-importance. However, like a child that has grown up (but still consults his father from time to time), we'll do as we like.

Back in 1991, Saddam (a leader who had used chemical weapons against his own people and had attacked his neighbor) agreed to disarm if the United States (er, the allied UN forces) would cease the annihilation of his country and give him the chance to stay both alive and in power. Since that time, when has he ever actually lived up to his agreement? Twelve years later, it is unimaginable that there could be ANYONE still making the argument that he needs more time. More time to do exactly what?

It would appear as if the Monroe Doctrine (i.e., America will defend its interests anywhere within its hemisphere) will have to be replaced by the Bush Doctrine (which extends us to the entire sphere).

[chm2023]

So he has had these terrible weapons for 12 years. Notice he hasn't attacked us? So in what sense is containment not working? This notion that the US doesn't need the support of the rest of the world is pure hubris. The game has changed, if you are going to counter terrorism you need a global effort. Terrorists arrested since 9/11--the ones Bush referred to his state of the union--the majority were arrested abroad, by the authorities in those states. We don't need this help? There's a need to respond to the 9/11 attack, fine, go get the people responsible. All this chest beating does not obscure the fact that Iraq was not responsible for the attacks (or any more responsible in an indirect sense than any of several other nations). Talk about misdirection.

Let's face it, are we comfortable following the lead of people who, in the face of bio or chem attacks, advise us to buy duct tape and plastic sheeting? DUCT TAPE???????

[EyeManFla]

Steve Machol said:
The French saved our butts in the Revolutionary War. Just a thought! :)

True enough! But I think that debt has long since been repaid (WWI,WWII & Vietnam).

I was a bit dismayed the other evening watching a British Q&A program on CSPAN. PM Blair, who I was never a big fan of but I'm growing to like more each day, was having his feet held to the fire on his policies regarding the US and Iraq. I was stunned when on or his fellow countrymen made not of the fact that nobody is trying to disarm the US, after all, "They are the only country that has ever used atomic wepons". What I found sad about the was the gentleman was of the WWII generation!

Now, I am not saying that I agree with all of "W"'s policies, but better to stop Saddam now before they become another North Korea.

And as far as the French are concerned, they could barely sink a Greenpeace ship let alone fight a major war.

Remember, there was a reason why are ancestors left Europe to come here, so don't be bothered that Europeans don't think like us!

[John R]

Pete et al...

Fine you go it alone......
I agree that the UN is a waste of time. It screwed its self as its run by the security council of 5 countries who all use their veto's when its something they dont like...Time ALL countries of the world had the full vote.

Many would agree that USA should be disarmed as should all countries of the world...

Had your lot had the bottle in the first place we would not be in this situation now.......

btw Pete, Is there any wonder most of the world hates America when you have a attitude like that...Time for America to take its nose out of everybody's business and sort its self out first.....