*Free-Form* is bumming me out!

[Fezz]

I have yet to be convinced that *free-form*, individualized, or customized progressives are that great. I have not had the "WOW" factor from patients. I also have been really dissapointed in the turnaround time. I can understand an extra couple of days, ok...an extra week or two, maybe. But, most of the customized progs are averaging about 6 weeks. That is unacceptable. I have ordered from various labs and have used various lenses. I have one ordered for one of our Docs. I ordered hers on 12-17-07. I got a fax today stating that they had yet another redo. UGH!!!!

I don't belive the hype! I don't agree with the delays in delivery. I don't want to ride on the *Free-Form* Express. Let me off!

:cheers::cheers:

[optical24/7]

You're having a problem because you aren't using Essilor products.


:D:bbg::D:bbg::D:bbg::D

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

[Fezz]

OUCH!!!!


Ok.....

One I ordered on Nov15, 07 was actually a VARILUX Ellipse 360.

I figured it would be a quicker turnaround then the Hoya BS that I was experiencing=WRONG!!!! That was a mistake as well. I got that one 12-19-07!


:p:cheers:;):cheers::p

[Jubilee]

I have had patients go WoW over both the Hoya Lifestyle ID and the Shamir Autograph.

Shamir hasn't been taking me that long to get in. The Lifestyle was just after the release and it took 6 weeks. Subsequent orders were closer to one month.

Sounds like issues at the lab may be to blame for part of it. If they are having multiple redos that is a problem irreguardless of what type of PAL it maybe.

Most of my patients have noticed wider zones and crisper vision. If it is worth the extra $100-300 and the 4-6 weeks of wait time is a value judgement. Have had 50/50 response with 20-30 pairs.

[KStraker]

We're getting about a 2 week turn around on Hoya's Id series. The verdict is not back yet on Accolade Freedom. Patients have enjoyed the iD lenses and seem to recognize the difference. We have a demonstrator from Hoya that shows the difference between a traditional pal and the new ones. That's generally all it takes.

[Fezz]

Most of the delays have been with the Hoya ID Lifestyle series.

[optics4life]

Hello All

Because free form is still in the early stages, labs are having tough times producing high yields. Most labs that are producing Free Form Progressives which are enduring high amounts of breakages have their days per job go up significantly especially since it takes much longer to produce a Free Form PAL than a conventional PAL.

Better days should be ahead. or at least I hope!

[Fezz]

Welcome to Optiboard Optics4Life!

Thanks for the insight!

If labs don't get it together soon, they may loose the interest of the dispensers!

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

[optics4life]

As most of us know, providing excellent customer service is essential in retaining customers. So until the industry gets better at producing Free Form PAL, I would only recommend it to those customers that always want the "Latest and Greatest" and are willing to wait the extra weeks for it.

Free Form will ultimately provide much better vision than conventional PAL but, by the most part only creates higher profit margins in its current position.

Good Luck

[Fezz]

Free Form will ultimately provide much better vision than conventional PAL but, by the most part only creates higher profit margins in its current position.

Good Luck

Well said!


:cheers::cheers::cheers:

[Jacqui]

Wait until Jacqui gets a freeform system and then service will improve !!

[Deleted1234]

..

[Kyle]

You're having a problem because you aren't using Essilor products.


**ridiculous display of overmarketed to/brainwashed glee removed**

CHOKE

PUHLEEEZ don't go there any more than you already have.

Of course you should know I happen to like Essilor products. Their lenses are great when the pigeons run out...

j/k

I actually am looking forward to sampling their new AR cuz All-iz-HEYYYHOOOHEYYYYHOOO was pretty darned good IMHO.

Kyle

[karen]

Fezzie, what kind of RX's are you dealing with? Some of the wow factor is related to how that power may not be optimized in the base curve a traditionally surfaced PAL comes in. I wouldn't expect a wow from a
-1.00-.75 x 180 with a 2.50 add for example.

It's because you are not using Collard Rose Optical Lab in Whittier, California by the way that you are having issues....;)

[Fezz]

Karen,

I was waiting for someone to ask. All but a few have been in the -/+ 6 range. Most have been in the -7.00 and up. My one Docs is -11.00 ish.

[Jacqui]

Karen,

I was waiting for someone to ask. All but a few have been in the -/+ 6 range. Most have been in the -7.00 and up. My one Docs is -11.00 ish.

OOFDAH !! No wonder you're having problems.

[Jacqui]

How long will the wait be?

As soon as I get the money.

[Fezz]

OOFDAH !! No wonder you're having problems.

Huh?

I thought that this range is where these *free-forms* shined!!


;):cheers:;):cheers:;)

[karen]

Karen,

I was waiting for someone to ask. All but a few have been in the -/+ 6 range. Most have been in the -7.00 and up. My one Docs is -11.00 ish.

First time PAL wearers? Or if not, what were they wearing previously? I think they should definitely wow more in that range for sure but it may also explain why they are taking awhile....

[AWTECH]

Karen,

I was waiting for someone to ask. All but a few have been in the -/+ 6 range. Most have been in the -7.00 and up. My one Docs is -11.00 ish.

Fezz this is the issue. We get requests for many that take quite a while due the fact that many are first time within a certain range.

In general if we are producing something that is an Rx about 1/2 what you have listed we have average turn around of three days. Most of the others we get are something that can not even be produced by another process. Such as A=63, B= 38, DBL= 18 with a PD of 27 in each eye. For this we double the time, to 6 days, since we may have to make it a second time for some reason.

Try a few on lower powers with a great design in freeform and will get the Wow. (I would like to see these be ICE-TECH PALs)

[Audiyoda]

I definitely saw a WOW factor with many patients over free-form PALs. Generally they were the type of patient that wore a PAL because they didn't cosmetically like a Dseg but never quite adapted to their PAL. Also saw plenty of Dseg wearers who were former non-adapts fall in love with free-form PALs. But I also found out the hard way that those really tough scripts (near 4D cross cyl or anything over a +6D or -8D) those lenses are just a pain to manufacture. I also discovered that most of the breakages I was seeing were due to finish work at the lab and not surfacing at the originating lab (generally Essilor's Omega-Dallas or Avisia).

The one thing I never saw was a bigger WOW from one free-form to another (my preferred lens was the Physio360 but I tried a half dozen over a two month period just to see if patients were more responsive to brand over another).

[Johns]

Huh?

I thought that this range is where these *free-forms* shined!!


;):cheers:;):cheers:;)

This reminds me of when the Panamic came out. They said, "Give us you're worst cases, and we'll make you believers!"

Well I took my 5 free coupons, put my 5 PIAs into them, and promptly had 5 remakes. They said they were "tweeking" the design (yeah, right...), but I didn't care. I never used the lens again...for anyone.

[Jacqui]

Huh?

I thought that this range is where these *free-forms* shined!!


;):cheers:;):cheers:;)

I ditto what AWTECH said. What I meant when I said oofdah, was that with the -7.00 and -11.00 anyone would take longer because of breakage and being in relatively unknown territory. Another reason for long delays may be the fact that your lab is overloaded with orders. I've been getting Shamir Autograph and Creation in no more than 2 weeks and many times 3 - 4 days (I haven't tried any others yet).

[CaOpticalGoddess]

I have a pt who was a confirmed Comfort user who is -7.00 and I put him in a Physio360 and he felt the WOW. Loves the lens and will never go back. I myself have tried the GT-2, Solamax, Physio, Definity and TrueclearHD. I love the free forms better. i am oly -3.00/+1.00 but I see the difference in the corridor and the perpheral.

[Chris Ryser]

Free Form will ultimately provide much better vision than conventional PAL but, by the most part only creates higher profit margins in its current position.

I would translate this to either the new machiney is not yet working the way it should..........................or emplyees have not been properly trained at this stage.

There used to be times when products were put on the market only after the production was streamlined and perfectly working.