Attention Opticians: Please stop blaming organizations for our failings.

[Optician1960]

TX - WM,
There is currently one exam that tests student-apprentices after their 1st year as step 1 in the exam process. They get tested again at the end of school and apprenticeship.
The challenge with the exam is that there is a subjective portion that could (has) seen strong people fail based on criteria that is questionable.

[wmcdonald]

TX - WM,
There is currently one exam that tests student-apprentices after their 1st year as step 1 in the exam process. They get tested again at the end of school and apprenticeship.
The challenge with the exam is that there is a subjective portion that could (has) seen strong people fail based on criteria that is questionable.

I am unaware of any exam that tests apprentices. In my research, apprenticeship is largely cheap labor, with no real training going on. I would be pleased to know there an apprenticeship with this structure. Please share with us.

[wmcdonald]

I agree with you entirely Warren, there must be education... but I think there needs to be effective testing at the end of that education. Much like the Bar Exam.

The reason the Bar exam exists is to ensure a commonality and and consistancy among many institutions that teach Law. Without it, those institutions would simply diverge in quality and quantity of legal education. Since a JD is essentially worthless without passing the Bar, educational institutions must prepare their students for that exam. It unites many colleges in the same goal without dictating directly to them what and when they teach. If their students stopped passing the bar (those results are published) those colleges would simply lose students to other colleges. They have INCENTIVE to create programs that help their students pass, the students have INCENTIVE to Pass, their needs are in line. We need to bring incentive into this equation and align the needs of varying interests.

There are many Opticians that think they don't need any education (even continuing) and they have sufficient skills according to their own self assessment. Without a test nothing can give them a "level" and they have no ability to accurately self assess except for using the Optician next to them. And I look pretty good using that method I might add. If I had a test, with results in specific areas, I can focus on what I need to learn. The problem with those Opticians who want to learn is that they have no idea where to go, and what they need to focus on. If we had a way to assess their skills, they would be able to both feel good about where they did well, and have direction on where they did not. Each section could contain a list of supporting materials and CE classes. We can't expect people to head a direction without signage, a test can give that signage.

Testing is another way for Opticians who have learned on their own effectively to earn the respect they deserve as well. I am big fan of structured formal education, but it has not been available to everyone in this industry as their are only a handfull of schools. For example 25 years ago in California when I started there was not a single Opticianry school in the worlds 10th largest economy. Many of these people have a done a great job, read books, studied, enthustically taken CEs and learned on their own. Despite their circumstances they have been committed to self education and have acquired a valuable wealth of knowledge. Although its not the future of Opticianry, it is our past. And through testing we can bring that knowledge and skill base into the future and let future Opticians learn from thier great knowledge. We cannot go forward until we bring our past and future together in some way, and testing the only way to do that.

Even when we are a world where schools in every state offer both 2 and 4 year Optical Management and Science degrees testing is still the only way to ensure the quality of education at those institutions.

My hope is that the ABO would refine and reassess their role in this industry, and see the potential influence they can have to shape this industry for the better.
Testing is really an answer to a lot of the debates we have here on Optiboard, but currently there is not an institution that provides it effectively. The ABO could fill that role but they will have to change their strategy. Until then we will flounder.

Testing is simply the only way to unite diverse backgrounds and incentives to build a foundation for education that I see.

What the American Bar Association did over time is similar what we need to do. Attorney's came from a diverse background, from Apprentices to colleges, some with law studies, some with not. Some simply put up shingles and called themselves lawyers. Many lawyers worked as clerks and paralegals, and then became attorney's. Some went to college, but not in law. So they created a standarized test. It didn't matter what your background was or where you got your skills at first, if you passed that test you were an Attorney. This allowed people to be grandfathered in who were practicing law. However, over time, the test got slowly harder. People NEEDED more classes, and law schools were born, all to pass the test. Now the test is so difficult in some states, after 7 years of school, students still spend $20K on special test prep-classes to pass the Bar (some states only have about a 20% pass rate the first time). Passing the Bar is required to practice law now, but it wasn't always. They didn't wait until the laws changed to create the Bar Exam, the provided the Bar Exam THEN the laws began to change.

What I propose is a multi-level Optical test, from Frame Stylist to Master Optician, with steps in between. I think I am good? Then I should test well. If I don't my test results will give me specific areas of study I can work on to pass to the next level. This both honors what people already know, and gives them help for what they don't. As the test gets harder over time, formal education will increase in need. Once its needed more, the number of schools will grow. Once the numbers of schools grow, more people will choose formal Optical education. There is a reason that colleges exist in every major city, higher education is extremely localized. People overwhelmingly attend colleges near where they live, sure some people go out of state, but its only about 22% of students I think but you probably have better numbers than I.

Van,
Your concern appears to be the present folks in the field. Good luck with that. Most came because they either fell into a job or could do nothing else. Not all, mind you, but most of the folks who call themselves Opticians in this country do not even have a rudimentary understanding of optics. Some can seel "product", but if they know little about the product how is quality affected? I am now more concerned about forgetting this current group, and increasing standards for those coming down the road. It is going to be a slow process, but that is how the ODs and others accomplished what they have, and I believe that is the best model.

In all but 2 jurisdictions, lawyers stopped doing this kind of training 50 years or more ago. So did physicians, nurses, and everyone else......except Opticians. They have advanced, as we continued to wonder what happened. As long as folks can learn on their own, we will never gain any professional respect from anyone other than ourselves. I am sorry Van, but I want to begin to attract brighter students, not "frame stylists". If we keep on screwing around, thats all we will become. As Barry mentioned, and my research validates, almost anyone can do what it is we do now, and technology just may eliminate the need for us altogether. I am no longer worried about the current folks, but seek to expand opportunities for future Opticians. Of course there needs to be a test after we complete our education.......I strongly support that, but it needs to require more than a 30 IQ to pass.

As to self-assessment.......most Opticians do not know what they do not know. They have never been exposed to many things, because their "apprenticeship" supervisor either did not have the background or just did not share it well. If we are to be a true profession, then the understanding comes from passing courses that effectively measure knowledge. We must provide a solid background for future professionals in this field. and that means education.

[Optician1960]

WM:
It is : NJ.

[wmcdonald]

Thanks, I appreciate that, but I thought we were talking on a national scale. NJ also licenses lab techs, which is a real stretch to me. I do like the approach to testing during training, much like ODs, and physicians do. Measuring competencies is a good idea, if there is a solid nderstanding across the nation as to what the standards are, or should be.

[sharpstick777]

Dr. McDonald,
I agree with you on most points. But I do want to leave a path for the current good and skilled people in the field to advance and grow to a professional level. I understand your frustration with the McOpticians, I see them everyday myself.

But to get to the point where we have available and effective education, we need the support of the wider full time optical community to that, we need a path for those people with great skill to achieve professional stature. We need their support, and we need them to teach.

Right now I think you, Roy and Darrell, Ed Degennaro and few other may be the only people in the US really qualified to be University level Optical educators, but its a small list. If by some bizarre chance (airplane crash where it was blamed on poor glasses for example), Colleges across the US started adding degree level Optical programs and we had licensure in every state, there would simply be no one really qualified to teach them.

We need something to fill that gap until enough fully educated Opticians graduate, and can fill that role in the distant future. The alternative would be to bring in educators outside of optical, and I think that would be just trading one disaster for another. Education is great, but we must have people qualified as educators too. Right now we don't.

Van,
Your concern appears to be the present folks in the field. Good luck with that. ... I am now more concerned about forgetting this current group, and increasing standards for those coming down the road. It is going to be a slow process, but that is how the ODs and others accomplished what they have, and I believe that is the best model.... I am no longer worried about the current folks, but seek to expand opportunities for future Opticians. Of course there needs to be a test after we complete our education.......I strongly support that, but it needs to require more than a 30 IQ to pass.

As to self-assessment.......most Opticians do not know what they do not know. They have never been exposed to many things, because their "apprenticeship" supervisor either did not have the background or just did not share it well. If we are to be a true profession, then the understanding comes from passing courses that effectively measure knowledge. We must provide a solid background for future professionals in this field. and that means education.

[price]

Tx 11,
I am not telling you what group to put your money at thats up to you. I would talk to OAT in Texas and see where it leads if you want to step up or just be like the rest and complane and do nothing. So its not easy it takes one person at a time to help. As far as getting paid by insurance companies do you really want to except 50% of your labor and fees. The insurance companies likes getting ods to sign up.

[wmcdonald]

Dr. McDonald,
I agree with you on most points. But I do want to leave a path for the current good and skilled people in the field to advance and grow to a professional level. I understand your frustration with the McOpticians, I see them everyday myself.

But to get to the point where we have available and effective education, we need the support of the wider full time optical community to that, we need a path for those people with great skill to achieve professional stature. We need their support, and we need them to teach.

Right now I think you, Roy and Darrell, Ed Degennaro and few other may be the only people in the US really qualified to be University level Optical educators, but its a small list. If by some bizarre chance (airplane crash where it was blamed on poor glasses for example), Colleges across the US started adding degree level Optical programs and we had licensure in every state, there would simply be no one really qualified to teach them.

We need something to fill that gap until enough fully educated Opticians graduate, and can fill that role in the distant future. The alternative would be to bring in educators outside of optical, and I think that would be just trading one disaster for another. Education is great, but we must have people qualified as educators too. Right now we don't.

I understand, Van, but unfortunately Roy, myself and a few others have been unble to motivate current folks to any large degree. The profession needs leadership that will establish standards for the future. As to programs, COA currently recognizes 24 programs and there are a number of others not accredited. I am not suggesting we send people to a university for their education, but to support existing ones. Anything is better than what we have now! I am not suggesting existing folks do anything, except support the future of their profession, and some see this as a personal insult, and it is not intended that way. We need to take a firm stand and establish standards like pharmacy did. Just a few years ago, they required a bachelor's degree. Now it is a doctorate. People are concerned about the chains paying? If they want to be in this business, and they are required to have Opticians, they will pay, just as they do for the PharmD. We let others decide our fate too much, and should do the following things:
1. Agree on what an Optician should do in the future, and it must include some expansion of scope. This must be agreed upon by all states, and shoud look to model those who have the strongest current requirements.
2. Establish a strategic timeline for the implementations.
3. Since the idea of legislative involvement will be difficult, base it upon board certification, such as the ABO, but make it rigorous to mean something.
4. Market the individuals who meet the standards to the public, much the way CPAs do.

If this sounds familiar, it is the exact path described in the Society to Advance Opticianry's iitial converstaion. It now exists, and I encourage you to take a look at it. Join the group. It is quietly developing, and in the next year or so, should be in a solid position.

I appreciate your interest, and hope you take a look. Roy, myself, Ed De Gennaro, Laurie Pierce, and many from Optiboard are full members. It does require specific ducation and certification/licensure credentials, but if you are teaching, you should meet them just fine. Doa searc here, however, and you will see it is not supported by all. Some felt they should be allowed in because they had x years of experience, but this organization is one that will recognize education. If you do not have a degree, we have a candidate membership and can show you how to complete a degree through a number of institutions.

I hear you loud and clear on the current folks, but there are existing paths for these folks they have chosen not to follow. Advanced certification is already there, as is the Masters in Ophthalmic Optics, but few seek it. It is the future I am most concerned with now, as we keep on dumbing down with each new generation, and it is time to put a stop to that by establishing future standards now.

[J.P.]

If I could kiss you I would...... But then again you're not my type Wes, LOL

AMEN on it all!!!!!

[Diane]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

So much of what is not happening today is because current Opticians fear that their credibility will be less or questioned because they have achieved what they dreamed of and worked for without formal education. I am an apprentice trained optician from back in the 70's. What I learned was how to make a great pair of glasses, adjust glasses well and communicate well with patients. I was taught to problem solve situations to find out the best soltion for a patient. I was taught that the most important patient/customer was the one in front of me at the exact moment. What I also learned was that there was a lot that I wasn't taught during apprenticeship. I wanted more knowledge. I wanted validation. I owned my own practice. I surrounded myself with very knowledgeable optical professionals who taught me a lot. I value them to this day. I desired to learn, and worked hard at it. It wasn't easy. I PAID for courses, books, training out of my own pocket and kept all my resources. There are a lot of really great Opticians who were apprentice trained. However, the industry has changed/evolved, and I recognize the necessity of formal education to ensure that our profession survives. The "Guild Masters" who trained opticians in the past are fewer and further apart. Today, I see employees who cry "I can't because my boss won't pay for it for me". The mentality needs to change. I am not LESS because I support formal education and was apprentice trained. I believe that I need to support the future. It must be formal education for opticians if we are to survive.

I applaud the young Opticians with the passion, today to make a difference. For those who want to just make themselves "look good", get out of the way of the rest.

I have been around a long time, and wanted to stop the battles for myself a while ago. I felt like I had done my part. I've changed my mind. I am a warrior, and won't lay down my sword because I still need to help ensure the future for my fellow Opticians. I'm still fighting for my students and the program at Georgia Piedmont Technical College, because I believe we need it. We need more education, not less.

Just my thoughts for today.

Diane

[Darryl Meister]

You are correct in that the Apprenticeship system of the past was a failure. But not a miserable one, just a misplaced one. Although I believe strongly that formal college education is the future of Opticianry, I also believe that a good and solid Apprenticeship is the only way to get to that point.

Apprenticeship was a common method of passing on trade skills before formal education and training programs became widely available. You would spend years learning and mastering a trade from a master craftsman, until you finally took over for him or started your own shop. It does not refer to a guy who learns to use the cash register at McDonald's during his first week of "training." Nor does it refer to learning to take a PD measurement from someone who got hired 6 months before you did.

The apprenticeship system was well suited for the Middle Ages. Today, however, "apprenticeship" simply means "no experience or training necessary." And you will never increase your professional status in that kind of context. Yet the term "apprenticeship" has been thrown around in these discussions for at least 20 years or more in an attempt to romanticize what we are doing. But, since the status of professional opticianry has failed to advance in over 20 years, are we really fooling anyone but ourselves?

Best regards,
Darryl

[sharpstick777]

You are correct in that Apprenticeship is outdated Darryl, but my version of Apprenticeship is different than those of the past. There are a lot of great boot-strap opticians out there now, who through no fault of their own have no formal optical training. There simply is not great availability for schools in every region of the country. Since most college students attend school within 300 miles of their hometown we have inherantly created a situation where the ideal of a fully professional field is practically impossible.

To expand education we need instructors. To get instructors, we need those Boot-strap geniuses to be qualified through an Adanced Apprenticeship. My hope is take these 20 year boot-strap veterans, fill in their education, give them professional statue so they can be instructors at Optical colleges.

Although we can all agree that formal degreed education is the only future. I seem to be the only one on this forum with at least one idea how to get there. You may not like my idea, but why not offer your own? No offense to the ideal, to you, to Warren or to Wes, I love you all.

Without a PLAN an ideal, no matter how noble, is simply worthless.

We can wish for educated Opticians. But until we create more college programs, it simply won't happen. We cannot create more college programs until we have instructors. We cannot have instructors until some kind of professional certification is wide spread and accessible, and the great source of those potential instructors are the boot-strap veterans. Testing and Advanced Apprenticeship remain the only two tools to certify instructors, unless you want to wait 50 years.

I am open to other ideas, but all i hear is "we need education". Great idea. But we need to start filling in the foundation now so that can happen later. Wishing won't make it so.

Apprenticeship was a common method of passing on trade skills before formal education and training programs became widely available. You would spend years learning and mastering a trade from a master craftsman, until you finally took over for him or started your own shop. It does not refer to a guy who learns to use the cash register at McDonald's during his first week of "training." Nor does it refer to learning to take a PD measurement from someone who got hired 6 months before you did.

The apprenticeship system was well suited for the Middle Ages. Today, however, "apprenticeship" simply means "no experience or training necessary." And you will never increase your professional status in that kind of context. Yet the term "apprenticeship" has been thrown around in these discussions for at least 20 years or more in an attempt to romanticize what we are doing. But, since the status of professional opticianry has failed to advance in over 20 years, are we really fooling anyone but ourselves?

Best regards,
Darryl

[wmcdonald]

There are almost 40 existing optical programs in the United States, and NAIT offers an outstanding online program that can easily be tailored for any state. There are approximately 16% of the existing population of Opticians in the US with Bachelor's degrees, and around 6% with graduate degrees. There are plenty of folks to teach the courses, just no push from the profession to support it.

[Darryl Meister]

There simply is not great availability for schools in every region of the country. Since most college students attend school within 300 miles of their hometown we have inherantly created a situation where the ideal of a fully professional field is practically impossible.

I disagree with your argument regarding the availability of optical programs, which I see as a circular argument. We don't have enough schools, because most opticians have not sought formal education. In fact, we actually had more optical programs in the past, although several have shut down over the years. Even now, accredited distance learning optical programs have made opticianry available to just about anyone.

to get instructors, we need those Boot-strap geniuses to be qualified through an Adanced Apprenticeship

I don't necessarily know that any apprenticeship program could qualify someone to teach college-level courses on the subject. And how is implementing a nation-wide "Advanced Apprenticeship" program any easier than getting an aspiring optician to take an online course? Or even taking the ABO-AC exam, for that matter?

Perhaps I do not understand what you are proposing as your version of apprenticeship, but unless it differs markedly from the current so-called apprenticeship under which most opticians are currently trained, I really don't see how it could advance the profession in any meaningful way. If optometrists had relied only on apprenticeship to advance their profession, they wouldn't be making on average three to four times what opticians make.

Best regards,
Darryl

[sharpstick777]

I understand, Van, but unfortunately Roy, myself and a few others have been unble to motivate current folks to any large degree.
....some see this as a personal insult, and it is not intended that way.

Again, the idea without a clear plan, although noble... will foster uncertaintly. That uncertainty will flow into resentment, and then resistance. That restistance will either lead to apathy or impass.