Rewetting drops maybe a waste of your money!

[dyip]

Companies like B & L, Alcon and others usually sell both saline solution, MPS and rewetting drops as part of the eye care products. If you compare the ingredients of the saline solution or MPS and rewetting drop from the same brand, you may be surprised that the ingredients are similar, if not the same, while the price/oz of the eye drops are at least 26 times more than that of the solutions. While I think that it is perfectly safe to use saline solution or MPS as rewetting drop, there is also a cheap alternative to these insanely expensive eye drops.

For example: (Information from www.drugstore.com or you can find it from your local drug stores)

1)Lens Plus saline solution ($5 for 12oz, the plastic bottle is cheaper) and the Lens Plus rewetting drop ($7 for .3oz) have the same ingredients (sodium chloride, boric acid).

Conclusion: For the same ingredients, saline solution is $.42 per oz, while the drop is $21 per oz, a factor of 50.

2) The Alcon Opti-Free Express MPS ($7 for 12 oz) contains: Citrate, Tetronic 1304, AMP-95, Polyquad(polyquaternium-1) 0.001%, Aldox (myristamidopropyl dimethylamine) 0.0005%,
Tetronic 1304 Sodium chloride, boric acid, sorbitol,and edetate disodium.

The Alcon Opti-Free Express Rewetting Drops($5 for .33oz) contains: a sterile, buffered, isotonic, aqueous solution that contains a citrate buffer and sodium chloride, with edetate disodium 0.05% and Polyquad® (Polyquaternium-1) 0.001% as preservatives.

Conclusion: Baically, the MPS is the rewetting drop plus other useful ingredients to kill bacteria and for wear comfort. The more useful MPS is $.58 per oz, while the drop is $15.2 per oz, a factor of 26.

3) ReNu Multi-Plus MPS with Hydranate ($4.3 for 12oz) contains:HYDRANATE (hydroxyalkyl-phosphonate,poloxamine,DYMED (polyaminopropyl biguanide) 0.0001%,boric acid, edetate disodium, sodium borate, and sodium chloride.

Renu rewetting drop ($6 for .5oz) contains: sterile, isotonic solution that contains boric acid, poloxamine, sodium borate and sodium chloride; preserved with sorbic acid 0.15% and edetate disodium 0.1%.

Conclusion: Again, the MPS is the rewetting drop plus Hydranate and Dymed which are used to remove protein deposit and kill bacteria respectively. The more useful MPS is $.36 per oz, while the drop is $12 per oz, a factor of 33.


Other brands’ rewetting drops may have some extra ingredients for better lubrication - more viscous for initial comfort and easier dispense. The small size of the rewetting drop bottle does have the advantage of convenience(but the material cost of the bottle is cheaper too). Besides that, do you really want to pay that much more( a factor of 26 to 50) for something that costs much less to manufacture? If you are a CL user, you should know that it is perfectly safe to apply either the saline solution or the MPS directly to your eyes because either of these solutions is the first thing that your eyes touch every time you insert your CLs into your eyes. Using MPS as rewetting drop is healthier though it may not be as viscous. Notice that the peroxide solution does not have this key advantage.

Someone also told me that rewetting drops actually causes the eyes to reduce their natural tear production. That means that the more rewetting drops you use, the dryer the eyes become. This will force you to use more eye drops. It definitely sounds like music to the eye drop companies. Do you think that they have already known about this ‘addictive effect’ so that they can sell more eye drops? It sounds like the same tactics used by those cigarette companies.



In my opinion, if your CLs are fitted correctly, and if you use the right disinfection solution or MPS, you eyes should feel comfortable for the whole day and should not require rewetting drop. If you need frequent rewettings throughout the day, maybe your CLs and/or the solution is not right for you (check out another thread in this forum titled “Alcon Express MPS and NO MPS have same ingredients but different prices” for my own personal experience). If you have tried everything(different solutions, different brands and different fits of soft CL, RGP, etc…), and you still need the rewetting drop frequently, stop wearing CL. Don’t let your eyes suffer.

Here is another alternative that will beat the price of any rewetting drop in the market because it is safe, natural, bio-compatible, effective, and most of all, it is free – your own tear! Do you notice that your eyes are wet with tear every time you yawn, and the more intense the yawn, the more tear? I can yawn anytime and anywhere I want to, so I can get my own rewetting drop at will. Try it yourself. Imagine that you are driving on the freeway with blurry eyes(especially after a long day), and there is no way to squeeze the eye drops into your eyes. Just yawn, blink couple times, and your vision will be crystal clear again. Haven’t you paid enough for the eye care solutions already? Why pay for the rewetting drop ANYMORE?

I guess everyone was born differently. Some people can wiggle their ears, some can curl up their tongues, some are smarter than the others, some have dryer eyes than the others…. Maybe it is all genetic. I am just one of those lucky people who can take advantage my own yawn. But I am sure that I am not the only one.

So next time when you see someone yawn for no obvious reason, you know why.

Have a nice and eye wetting yawn!

Remember, just B: and ( ; and you will not be ) :

PS,
From the evolution point of view, why does yawn trigger lacrimation? I can’t imagine that our ancestors would have known that one day this trick would benefit some CL wearers like me. Laughing profusely will also do the trick(just don’t try it with a full bladder), like when reading some of the threads in this forum, especially the candid, revealing and entertaining exchanges among different Os.

[chip anderson]

As I keep saying, rewetting drops last about as long as it takes for the patient to go from the chair to thier car. If you have a true dry eye, a drop of castor oil upon retireing after removing the lenses will solve the problem. I see that the Japanese and some O.D.'s are now testing same (has been used for 40 years) and adding something (a preservative or other ingredient) to get FDA approval and a patent, vola'.


Chip

[dyip]

Chip,
Can castor oil replace the $8-$10 per oz. commercially available artificial tear? I do know some people who do not wear CL and have dry eyes for some medical reasons. How expensive is the oil? What is the ingredients (it sounds a little bit scary to pour oil into one's eyes, so I've better ask)? Is it really oily? Where do you get the oil, and are they commercially available? Is there any generic name and brand name for it?

[chip anderson]

Castor Oil contains oil from Castor Beans. It is cheap. It is not patentable, hense not FDA approved (no money in it even if it works). And yes you can put some oils in the eye, Castor oil, mineral oil and petrolium jelly have been used for years, alone and as vehicles for various medications.

Castor oil was (I think) first used went the anesthesiologist were using things that caused the patient's eye to remain open during surgery on other parts of the body. The patients were not too happy when they awakened blind with cracked corneas after an apendectomy. So the anesthesiolgist started carrying small dropper bottles of Castor Oil. Voila! they could keep the patients out for hours with no corneal damage.

My friend Louis Girard, M.D. got the idea that if it works there why not try it on my severe dry eye patients while he was head of Baylor Medicines Department of Ophthalmolgy. It worked. As he was heavily involved with contact lenses (see history of Joe Soper, et. al.) he tried it on C.L. patients with dry eyes as well.
Louis assured me that he used it extensively for 24 years and it almost always worked and "never got him in trouble." This is better than you can claim for any other eye drop, FDA approved or not.

Chip

[dyip]

Chip,
I found out a little bit more information about the Caster Bean.

A relative of California Croton and Poinsettia, this plant has long been the source of that bane of childhood, Caster Oil. The seeds contain a highly poisonous phytotoxin (ricin) which can cause nausea, convulsion and death. If the seeds are swallowed whole, they most likely will do no harm; only when they are hewed is the poison released. The oil, which is expressed from the seeds to make the laxative is devoid of the toxic properties.

source from :
http://sphs.spusd.net/wielenga/Arroy...CastorBean.htm

Did you read the word "poisonous" from the quote?
It sounds even more scary than I originally thought. I would rather ask my friends to do more yawnings until they get more

[chip anderson]

Did you read the phrase "Oil which is devoid of the toxin." Do you know what devoid is?

Chip

[dyip]

:finger: still a bad idea


Chip,
I forgot to include the 1st paragraph from the previous source. It says:

This invasive weed is a member of a very large family or plants characterized by the presence of a milky sap, or latex. This latex is toxic, and can cause skin irritations, or blindness, if gotten into the eyes.

Assuming that I like the caster oil idea, and I want to try it out. First, I have to locate the plant(I hope that it is easily found, don’t tell me that I have to plant it first). When I try to get the bean, I must be careful of not having the toxic sap get to my hands. When I try to express the oil from the seed, I must make sure that the ‘poisonless’ oil is not contaminated with the poisonous ricin inside the seed. Let say I’ve done all the precaution and successfully extract the oil and put it in a bottle (fully sterilized, and bacteria free). Since I have extra oil left(after such a BIG effort, I'd better make more than just one bottle), and I want to give one bottle to you as a gift because of your ‘great tip’. Will you try the oil yourself or recommend it to your loved one (I mean your very loved one like your son, daughter, wife, parents)? Have you really tried the oil yourself? I won’t.

BTW, you have mentioned more than one time the word ‘patent’ in your responses. So you must know a few things about patents. Based on my limited knowledge in this area, here is my thought of why the manufacturers put the word ‘patent’ on the label of the commercial product like let’s say Alcon Express No Rub MPS:

1) To tell the competitors that do not copy my patented formula or I will sue
2) To inform the competitors that they can license the patent and get loyalty from the competitors
3) To tell the public that their product is ‘newer’ and ‘better’ than the competitors', so buy it from them
4) To let the public knows that they can $ell the MPS for as much as they want as long as there are still buyers for the next 15 years or until the next competitor comes out another similar ‘newer’, ‘better’ and ‘cheaper’ product.

Do you have any thing added to this. Any comment is welcome.

[chip anderson]

You can buy the damn castor oil in any drug store. It has been used as a laxative for probably 100+ years. You can get a damn eyedropper there too. No need to melt your own sand and blow the glass.

Chip

[Stopper]

The main cost of any solution or rewetting drop is not the solution. The main cost is the packaging and the preperation of the bottles. All this is controlled by the FDA, even how the solution comes out of the bottle. If you call it an eye drop it has to come out as an eye drop not like a stream from a solution bottle. That's why if you compare the cost per ounce, there will be a big difference. This doesn't explain the whole difference but probably most of it. I don't blame them for trying to make money.

Besides who wants to carry around a 12oz bottle to rewet lenses. As others have stated, they don't help for long anyway.

[dyip]

Chip,

I like your Good sense of humor! :)

How do you (and all the Optiboard masters) read someone else¡¯s posts? Do you really read every single word or just glance through the post at the speed of light? I don¡¯t blame you when you have so many interesting threads to keep up with everyday.

I had sincerely asked you where I could get the oil in my earlier post. You could have just told me earlier that I could get it at any drug store instead of having me look all over the web sites and dig up all the details. However, I did not regret to find out more infromation about the castor oil.

Since I still have to buy the eyedropper like you said, I still have to take extra step to make sure that the dropper and the bottle are fully sterilized (Can they be?). With all the time and effort put to prepare this homemade eyedrop, the originally cheap constipation reliefing oil really does not sound that cheap anymore when it turns into the oily eyedrop. The toxic sap and poisonous ricin assciociated with the oil are really another big turn off. I will never visulaize this oil being 100% devoid of these nasty stuffs anymore. Like you said, the oil is not FDA approved (I guess that it is not approved for eyedrop, if that is what you meant), so who am I going to sue if I am blinded by using some contaminated oil for rewetting eyes someday?

The devils are always in the details......



Stopper,

:finger: :finger:You need to have a better excuse for ¡°I don't blame them for trying to make money.¡±


OK, let¡¯s say that the costs of the MPS solution and eyedrop are the same. I can understand why a 128 oz bottle juice can be 20% to 50% cheaper than four 32 oz bottle juice sold in the same store, but how can the packaging of a 12 oz MPS be at least 20 times more expensive that that of a 1 oz bottle? Also, do you really mean just because the liquid come out in drops vs in a stream will make a big difference in costs? Don¡¯t the eyecare company just punch a bigger hole at the tip, and the solution will just come out in a stream instead of drops? How much research or engineering effort does it take to come out two different tips? To me this is just like buying a blue shirt or a red shirt, and the choice of color should makes no difference at all in price.

You just remind me that the bottle tip is another area that the eyecare company can get $mart (= greedy?). All they have to do is to punch a larger hole, and the solution will just pour out uncontrollably with just a light squeeze. Haven¡¯t you had that kind of experience before?

For someone who does office work, I don¡¯t think that it is very inconvenient to stock an extra 12 oz MPS in the office. BTW, there is always traveler kit on sale, and the kit usually comes with a 2 oz MPS bottle. The whole kit is still cheaper than the 1oz rewetting drop. It really depends on how motivated the person is in trying to save money to go the extra step. I am glad that I am ¡®rewetting drop¡¯ free, and I do not have to worry about any of these things.

You also said

Besides who wants to carry around a 12oz bottle to rewet lenses. As others have stated, they don't help for long anyway.

Who are the others? Did you confuse the ¡®Rewetting drops¡¯ with the ¡®MPS¡¯ solution? My personal experience with MPS for rewetting lenses was that it lasted as long as the rewetting drop, but only healthier .



Your argument to protect the eyecare company make me think of the mother of a convicted murderer crying in front of national TVs and trying to convice the rest of the world that her son is innocent (nothing personal).


dy

Remember, just B: and ( ; and you will not be ) :

[Stopper]

dyip,
I'm not defending alcon, just offering an explanation. If you choose not to accept it. That's fine with me. But, apple juice is not the same as contact lens solutions. It is highly regulated by the FDA. As you posted it seems to be the same solution and if it is the same solutuon they can't call it a rewetting drop if it doesn't come out as a drop. This may be stupid but this it how it is. The process of sterilizing the bottles, getting it in the bottles and making the solution is very regulated and is a significant cost. the actual cost of the solution ingredients is minimal but the process is the expense. Also, in my original post I stated that this doesn't explain the whole difference. And I still don't blame them for trying to make money. thats what they are in business for. I hope this explains my point a little better.

It's not as important to like the rules as it is to understand the rules.

[jon 22]

Those little bottles of rewetting drops often are very similar to the multipurpose solution. You wouldn't want to drip detergent and disinfectant into your eyes just to rewet the contact. Re: small bottle vs large : the FDA frowns on the idea of patients balancing a heavy 12 oz bottle with a pointed tip directly above your delicate eyeballs. The Castor Oil approach sounds interesting, but it sounds a little like "just rub a little butter on it". ie folk remedy, not something you want to hear from your doctor. Being an oil, I could imagine it could foul up your soft contacts too. There are recent reports of things like fish oil capsules and flax seed oils being investigated to help dry eyes, but taken internally, not topically. Get away from preservatives like benzalkonium Chloride and try some of the better dry eye treatments such as Refresh Tears or Genteal (Moderate strength) that use carboxymethylcellulose. They are compatible with soft or GP CL's and have a very mild preservative, and water based. I've also used a product called Liposome Spray from Ocusoft that some of my patients love. Also, if you have dry eyes, there are better options available than the all in one multipurpose ones for cleaning and disinfecting your contacts.

[dyip]

Stopper,
How many people died of food poisoning in one year? What make you think that the processing of food is not as highly regulated as(if not more than) that of the eye solution?

You said that

The process of sterilizing the bottles, getting it in the bottles and making the solution is very regulated and is a significant cost. the actual cost of the solution ingredients is minimal but the process is the expense.

What you said above was correct, and I believe that BOTH MPS and Rewetting drop packaging processes are equally highly regulated by FDA. You still did not say anything about what is the key difference between the two processes that amounts to the big difference in prices. (Don¡¯t tell me that the difference is in the tips again.)

If you ask your dentist the question:¡°Why do you charge me $1000 for a crown while the material cost is only $50?¡±(Actually, I heard about this dental story from a post by an OD in the Contact Lens Spectrum Forum), I am sure that he will give you a ¡®good¡¯ and ¡®thorough¡¯ explanation, but will you buy it?

Now you have explained the rule, do you think that the public will buy it?



Jon 22,

My OD also recommended me to use Artificial tears in case I needed it. Those tears are not cheap neither. I think that my points about the MPS, Rewetting drops, and your own natural tears are clearly made in my original post. The decision is really up to the readers.

Is it really true that for those dry eye people, they have zero chance of triggering tears no matter how hard they yawn? How often does the extreme dry eye cases happen? Of course, you would not recommend those people to wear CL in the first place, right?

[Stopper]

Dyip,
The point is that there is no difference in the process and the cost to get the process accomplished is about the same for a 15ml bottle as a 12oz bottle. I suggest you contact the FDA and find out the differences in the regulations controlling apple juice vs contact lens solutions. You might be suprised. :drop:

If your happy using the big bottle, more power to you. If it works for you, thats fine. I'm just trying to answer your question. you don't seem to like my answer, but that's okay with me.
Good Luck

[Diane]

Not that I think dyip will be concerned with this, but I will post it for the benefit of people who actually attempt to LISTEN to good advice. Glad he/she isn't my patient...

This article is in this week's issue of Vision Monday.

FDA Pushes Proper CL Care, Regular Eye Exams



WASHINGTON, D.C.--The concepts of regular eye checkups and cleaning contact lenses using products recommended by ECPs got a boost from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration last week. In a public statement, the FDA recommended that consumers who wear CLs “use only the types of cleaners and saline solutions recommended by [their] eyecare practitioner,” then urged CL wearers, “Visit your eye specialist every six months.”


Vol. No: 17:05Issue: 3/10/03


Diane

[Pete Hanlin]

You can buy the damn castor oil in any drug store. It has been used as a laxative for probably 100+ years. You can get a damn eyedropper there too. No need to melt your own sand and blow the glass.
Chip
Mr. Chip,
Although there have been many humorous posts on OB through the years, few have made me involuntarily laugh aloud. By contrast, the above attachment made my chuckle so loud the nice lady in the office adjacent to mine wandered over to see what was so funny...

Whew, thanks for giving me a moment of comic relief- for some reason, this just hit a funny nerve! :)

[dyip]

Pete,
I hope that you had taken my advice and didn't wet your pant.:bbg:

[Optom]

Chips,

Have you ever tried puntal plugs for chronic dry eyes,I believe it is better solution than castor oil.

Regards,

S Kapasi

[dyip]

Diane,

FDA recommended that consumers who wear CLs “use only the types of cleaners and saline solutions recommended by [their] eyecare practitioner,” then urged CL wearers, “Visit your eye specialist every six months.”

Guess who are the lobbists behind this.

Your dentist would love to check your teeth every 3 months. Just go and ask. BTW, you have at least 28 teeth (instead of just 2 eyes) that can go wrong at any given time. Don't you think that your dentist's advice make more sense?

You can also do the oil change to your car every week too.

[dyip]

Diane again,

Not that I think dyip will be concerned with this, but I will post it for the benefit of people who actually attempt to LISTEN to good advice. Glad he/she isn't my patient...

What make you think that my advice is 'not good' just because I am not any of the 3Os? Can you be more specific.

If you look anything like your 'icon', my eyes would not be looking at the 'right thing' as instructed if you were my OD during the eye exam. I would really need this-

I said earlier:

BTW, you have at least 28 teeth (instead of just 2 eyes) that can go wrong at any given time.

I should also mention the 4 bonus wisdom teeth. Don't you ODs regret that you haven't figure this out before you chose to become an OD instead of Dentistry? Just by looking at the big difference in the numbers, no wonder an average dentist makes much more than an average OD. Just an advice for future medical students who are undecided between Optometry and Dentistry.

[GatorGirl]

hey out there


I felt the need to respond to this as "are you guys doing drugs?"
I am not sure who is the person who started this string but what does he do?

No one in their right mind would recommend to a patient to carry saline or mps in their purse or pocket. No one should even laugh about this subject. I have seen alot of problem cl wearers lately. The refuse to use rewetting drops and are doing damage to their eyes. Can we get them to be more non-compliant? I have people tell me yes after putting in the manufactor's rewetting drops their eyes feel better, but not msp and definitely not saline and that might be because it feels better. So what no big deal. I want patient's to use rewetting drops because if they don't and are already overwearing their contacts, it will only get worse:angry:

So please shut up and start doing something positive like encourge people to be responsible :hammer:

Thanks

Christina

[Joann Raytar]

Pete Hanlin said:
You can buy the damn castor oil in any drug store. It has been used as a laxative for probably 100+ years. You can get a damn eyedropper there too. No need to melt your own sand and blow the glass.
Chip
Mr. Chip,
Although there have been many humorous posts on OB through the years, few have made me involuntarily laugh aloud. By contrast, the above attachment made my chuckle so loud the nice lady in the office adjacent to mine wandered over to see what was so funny...

Whew, thanks for giving me a moment of comic relief- for some reason, this just hit a funny nerve! :)

I'll second that! :D I can't believe Chip was able to maintain his composure through that one. :cheers: Here's to you Chip for handling that one with such tact!

dyip said:
... Don't you ODs regret that you haven't figure this out before you chose to become an OD instead of Dentistry?

You have posted about CL solutions so much between the two forums I think you may have forgotten which one you are on. Our members are from all corners of the Optical field, not just Optometry. Actually, most of us are not from Optometric offices.

[dyip]

GatorGirl,
Did you start reading from the 1st post of this thread or from the last? Just go the the 1st post and read again. You might have missed some of the fun.

Jo,
Try a better one. Maybe as GatorGirl said, you are a little bit high and don't know what you are talking about.

[Jedi]

BTW, you have at least 28 teeth (instead of just 2 eyes) that can go wrong at any given time.

I don't see the relevence, but those two eyes are the ONLY eyes you will ever have, take care of them. Teeth can come and go.

BTW, do practice the Bates Method as well?

[chip anderson]

Shabbirr:

I have see some of the complications that punctum plugs cause, and the surgery required to remove them when they don't stay were they belong. While they do furnish the surgeon or O.D. a
$450 surgical fee, they don't repair the mucin layer, Castor Oil is cheap, no side effects and the Mucin layer eventually repairs itself.

Chip