Is It A Southern Thing?

[Cindy Hamlin]

I must preface this by saying that I am a Yankee living in the South! I love the south and love every day I live here, but.....

I never and I mean NEVER heard about the civil war except maybe in history class for a week. Since relocating to lovely Virginia, I have heard nothing but. Some people think they are still in the war!

I was talking to a fellow the other day who said something about the war and winning someday and I reminded him that the Yankees won! I have literally seen articles in the newspapers about certain southern states wanting to suceed from the Union. True, it is isolated cluster groups, but come on!

Does anyone else experience this or is it a Virginia thing since it was a hotbed during the war?

Enlighten me please!

[LaurieC]

And I've lived with it for decades I will try to get my ever loving Bacchus (born and raised in rural South Carolina) to weigh in on the whys of this later. I can only tell you my experience as a Yankee, married to a Southerner. First my in-laws had already pegged James as the family rebel just because he was a Gamecock instead of a Tiger. They figured goin to that big city college then gave him the notion to go and marry a Yankee. I'm not sure Mother ever forgave him. Our very first disagreement as a married couple involved a point of historical fact on the Civil War or the War of Northern Agression as hubby calls it. I had not thought the disagreement something profound until 18 months later when Jim presented me with a book of Lincoln's letters that had several transcripts he felt proved me wrong in the 18 month past argument. (Let me tell you, these guys don't ever give up ) Then our kids had to study US History and get totally confused when Mom and Dad took turns with homework help, is it Manassas or Bull Run? Was is about slavery or succession, what came first, the chicken or the egg? Jim's family is very well known in his home town of Williamston, but even after all these years, if we're there and in a public place, someone has to make a point of very loudly pointing out, "James' wife isn't from around here, she's a Yankee gal" And then all expressions go
I give up:hammer:

[Judy Canty]

It's definitely a "Southern" thing. As the child of displaced western Pennsylvanians, 7th grade Virginia History became a painful subject. During dinner conversation one evening, I mentioned something about Southern gentlemen, or maybe Virginia gentlemen, I don't remember. However, my father announced that the only Virginia gentleman left was on the shelf at the ABC store( that's the liquor store to non-Virginians). Since my father was never wrong, I brought that point to my teacher's attention during class.
I was sent to the principals office, my father was called (he was our high school band director), my mother was called (she taught business subjects at the same high school) and we were all in big trouble with Mrs. Sledge! I don't remember the final dispensation, but she didn't like me much after that.

BTW, Vicksburg, MS didn't acknowledge, not to mention celebrate, July 4th for more than 100 years after the end of the Civil War.

[Pete Hanlin]

Well, as a Pennsylvanian who married an Alabama girl, I catch it too, Cindy! There were actually uncles and aunts who grimaced when they heard where I was from! Growing up near Gettysburg and all, we naturally studied the Civil War in school- but as you mention, it was nothing that was dwelt on. It happened, the Union won- period.

We have a lot less of the Southern fanaticism here in Florida (where most people are transplanted from the North anyway), but the natives still point out with pride that Tallahassee was the only Confederate capitol never taken in the war... Even on the local radio talk shows, there will sometimes be talks about how the South never really surrendered, and how the Confederate Constitution should still be upheld...


Do I run into it in Alabama? Well, let's just say I don't even wear my Penn State stuff when we visit certain parts anymore! I didn't notice it was too bad in Tennessee (where I went to college), but then again the Volunteer State was the last to leave and the first to rejoin the Union. Virginia seems to be a particular hotbed of Southern "patriotism." Probably because the main body of the Confederate army was from that state.

I like Southerners (I married one). They're pretty, some of them have a really nice accent that is pleasant to the ear- but they definitely have a different mindset than most Northerners do. Perhaps that, more than any other reason, is why they strove for independence.

[Diane]

Now Cindy honey,

You just may be right, and then again, you just may be wrong. It could be a southern thing, but then again, it just may appear that way to some folks, you hear!

I was born in Montana, but have spent the last 52 years in Georgia. So for all practical purposes I am a Georgian. My Mama is from Montana and my Daddy married her and brought her back to Georgia. She loves it here. It's way too cold there for her way of thinking. My Daddy is from Georgia, and his family loves their southern heritage, but don't dwell on it. The future is more important to them than the past.

I used to think that the people from the south were from very sturdy stock, but as I've traveled around the country, have found that people from all around the country are from pretty sturdy stock. I guess that's why we're really Americans.

Take care, now, ya heah...

Diane

:) ;)

[Darris Chambless]

Ladies, ladies,

As a southerner I must jump in here and say that what you witnessed is as much a northern mindset as a southern one. Stereotyping reigns king in both regions and has been done to myself by others around here on this very board ;). Since I'm from the south I'm a "racist" and or a "Nazi" by virtue of geographic location so please don't equate anything as a "southern thing" exclusively since the door does swing both ways unfortunately.

In either instance you have the extremists on both sides and they aren't indicative of all people north or south. So using them as a depiction of all is a poorly placed blanket statement in its own right and shows an ignorance not yet surpassed by even the most extreme in some cases.

To be fair lets understand what the civil war was about. In it's truest form it was about representation in the governing body of this country and it weighed heavier toward the northern states and didn't give ample representation to the suthern states which the southerners didn't like very much since taxation without representation was what we fought the British for. Slavery did not play as big of a part as history books would lead one to believe in the war itself.

As to the temperment of present day I would have to throw in this little tidbit of information regarding something that Cindy said:

"I have literally seen articles in the newspapers about certain southern states wanting to suceed from the Union. True, it is isolated cluster groups, but come on!"

I can't remember the guys name (McClain I believe) that set up an outpost in the Davis mountains here in Texas and was trying for secesion of Texas because of some doctorine he'd found that allegedly said that Texas was taken illegally. The guy that set this up and all but one of his men were from Northern states so I'm not sure how that would classified, not to mention I don't recall him asking the good people of Texas if they wanted to sucede from the Union nor do I recall anyone actually wanting him as the governing person once secesion had taken place. But in any event he took it upon himself to take Texas out of the Union and he wasn't even from Texas. Go figure :) He was nothing more than a cook and not a local one at that.

I own a Confederate flag. I keep it folded neatly in a box in my bedroom. Why do I have it? Because regardless of what anyone thinks about it, it is a piece of history and a big piece of southern history good or bad. We're a better nation because of the unity and symbolism doesn't make one hateful, racist or anti-anything. It's a history that shows us where we've been and how far we've come.

"Is it a southern thing?" Come to Texas and we'll show you ladies chivalry like you've never seen before and we don't care where you're from ;) The adage "The South will rise again"? When it comes to discussions on the north vs. the south I think I've proven on more than one occasion that I, as a southern gentleman, have overcome whoever, whenever it was necessary. So to an extent the South did rise again. I have risen to the occasion both for myself as well as others :)

Anyway that's the Southern side of the equation for anyone who's intrested.

Darris "Southerner and damn proud of it ;)" C.

[chip anderson]

Cindy:

The Nawth didn't win, they still live up Nawth don't they. Today we had 75 degres and sunny and nice, Cincinnati had 5 inches of snow, and they think they won.

Now about Texas: When Texas joined the Union they were given the option of dividing into 5 smaller states or withdrawing from the union if they found it not to thier liking. At one point in the early formation of the union, the Southern States had the option of withdrawing from the union also, but this point as well as many other rights and points of law were overlooked by
Mr Lincon and his band of tax collectors.

Chip

P.S. There is also a passage in the bible where even Jesus Christ says: "Sell your cloaks an buy swords."

[Cindy Hamlin]

I didn't mean to imply that southern people were all....(fill in the blank).

What I was saying is that as far as US History, that southern people know far more about the civil war then I remember of my family history. As I said with my Yankee education it was talked about as a footnote. I think we spent more time on Lincoln and the slaves than the Civil War.

It isn't isolated in the knowledge of THE WAR. It seems EVERYONE can tell you all about it here in Virginia. It is almost ingrained into them a bitterness over the whole thing. A feeling that "WE SHALL RISE AGAIN!" It beats anything I have ever seen.

We have 2 DMs that are from NY state. One is in western VA and West Virginia and the other northern VA to the Beach and we discussed it one day. They have seen things in their travels that it ain't proper or right to discuss in this forum which was related to the Civil War!

I just don't get it!

On a side note, we had a minister when I lived in Ohio who was from Georgia. He was a rebel through and through and would freely tell you from the pulpit ever Sunday. He decided it would be funny to fly his rebel flag from the church flagpole. Well he did and within a hour the local police were there. Evidently, in Ohio it is against the law to fly the rebel flag! He was given a summons and a hefty fine!

I love the way a southern man treats a lady! And I might add a southern man considers all women ladies!;)

[Joann Raytar]

Darris' take on matters, to my knowledge, is pretty much the way it is/was. Money and representation are pretty much the cause of all of history's wars.

Of course the history books had to make more out of it. We Yankees just love a cause. The only way to get money out of New York was to have a cause to woo the ladies with and a few business/political enticements that would ensure that New York kept its financial status as the US economic center.

The irony in it all is that the first stop for many of the slaves who were brought to the US was New York. If I recall correctly, New York also held the largest slave auctions in the US. Notice how the Union Army still segregated freed slaves who "signed" up for duty in the army. We couldn't let that stuff get into the history books now could we.

The North had/has its share of bigotry except the Yankees didn't care who you were unless you came over on the Mayflower. I seem to recall a few churches in Philly and Boston being burned down over religious disagreements. Then there were the Synogogues that were either set on fire or vandalized. For the golfers among us, most of our country clubs were segregated until not too long ago. Later on in history, Harlem would play a prequel to the LA riots.

Heck, the grand wizard or dragon, whatever he was called, lived here in CT. Actually, the town of Milford,Connecticut just took its last racist law off the books last year. Up until 2001, there was actually a law in Milford that made it illegal for non-white individuals to own property or live there. Not that it was enforced but the fact that it was an official law for that long says something. Yankee bigotry has more to do with social status and that covers a pretty broad range.

[stephanie]

Ok ok gotta get my two cents in here guys!! Growing up in NJ and moving to TN is probably the most difficult thing I have ever done in my life. Culture shock!! Bigtime!! and it isn't a bad thing necessarily it is just differences in opinion and different ways we were brought up. I do know I have a sense of humor I have to be careful with...have ****** off quite a few people here and I am just standing there going "WHAT WHAT DID I SAY WRONG?????" Where as the people from back home would have been laughing y'know. "Youse guys" is not a word here...y'all and youins. It took me a while to figure out what "longhandles" were or what this "light bill" that everyone around here kept paying and why did I never get one!!! LOL!!! I didn't know how to pump gas, had never seen anyone chew tobacco let alone spit it into a soda bottle while you were adjusting their gls(UH PUKE!!!!) Why do people "lay out" of work instead of calling out sick??? When we laid out we were usually at the beach!! LOL!!! I could go on and on!! It has been interesting to say the least. Of course it goes both ways...I have had several people wonder what I was "tawin" about!! LOL!! If I had a nickel for everytime I had to repeat myself I would have retired several years ago!! I was not in the Civil War and most likely didn't have any relatives there either so...I am also NOT a Yankee...have never and will never play professional baseball!! LOL!!!! And why can you almost never get unsweetened ice tea here?? That stuff called "sweet tea" will take the enamel right off your teeth!! LOL!! Anyway that is just my two cents probably not even worth that after taxes!!!


Steph

[chip anderson]

Anyone give though to the fact that you cannot have unsweetened tea? The term implies that the tea was once sweet and had the sugar removed. Unsweetened tea should be virgin tea or just tea, not "Un-sweetened." The term is only recent anyway, ten years ago it was no heard. Why did we start it to begin with?

Chip

[LaurieC]

If you insist on getting into the tea issue...... then we will have to get into the grits issue:D :bbg: :D :bbg: :D :shiner: :D :bbg:

[Pete Hanlin]

What I was saying is that as far as US History, that southern people know far more about the civil war then I remember of my family history. As I said with my Yankee education it was talked about as a footnote.
Like Cindy, I'm not trying to assert that there are qualitative differences between folks from the North or South. However, Cindy has a point- there aren't that many people in the North that could tell you much about the Civil War (in fact, I would guess that 6 out of 10 couldn't tell you what decade the war was fought in). Conversely, most of my Southern in-laws can go on at length about the topic (trust me).

Stephanie, you bring a smile because I can relate to what you are saying as well... For example, I'll never forget the first time my wife said it was "as hot as all get out." What the heck does that mean? Its also a bit odd to have someone ask you to "reach" them the salt, get them an "orange coke," or to hear that they're "fixin" to "make groceries." No more odd, perhaps, than they think it is when I say "youns," or pronounce the opposite of "off" as "ahwn." Although I don't do this, lots of Central Pennsys (my mom included) pronounce "wash" as "warsh" (and other "ash" sounds get similar misuse).

Seeing how the Civil War is 140 years behind us, maybe we should all just be really glad that there is so much diversity in our country and that we are still a Union (after all, if we hadn't been a unified country, we couldn't have bailed Europe out of trouble twice in the twentieth century... but that's another argument).
:D

[Texas Ranger]

My earliest recollections in life, I was 4, my brother was 5, my dad was in the Air Force, and we had just returned from him flying in the Berlin Airlift, we were in Lake Charles, La. (for 10 yrs.), was in 1st grade at 4, where school staerted off with a rendition of "Les Marsailles", a couple good french tunes, and finally God Bless America and a prayer...but the culture was decidedly Cajun French (I never knew there were black people until we went to my grandmother's in Fort Worth to visit). it was strange also, because we weren't Catholic and the rest of our world was. the Cajun people were really wonderful; we left there in '60 and lived in upper Michigan (the U.P.) for 4 years, mostly scandinavian folks there, but we lived on the airbase, and goodly portion of the airmen were black guys from big cities like Chicago and Detroit. good education in shooting pool... dad retired to Fort Worth, I got drafted and served as a Navay Corpsman for three years, San Diego, Annapolis, Rhode Island, Vietnam, then back to Texas, Thank You Lord!! My Dad was from Akron Ohio, my Mom from Texas, there were never any "southern" issues...I just learned to care about everybody, God made us all and loves us all the same, and as far as I'm concerned, that's all that counts...It's great to have the opportunity to be an Optician in this great land that many have died to preserve it's freedoms....both North and South. God Bless America...it's ALL great...

[Cindy Hamlin]

Texas Ranger said:
I just learned to care about everybody, God made us all and loves us all the same, and as far as I'm concerned, that's all that counts...It's great to have the opportunity to be an Optician in this great land that many have died to preserve it's freedoms....both North and South. God Bless America...it's ALL great...

Well said Ranger! :D

[Darris Chambless]

Howdy Cindy,

I wasn't saying that you were implying anything of the sort but I did want to make it clear to any potential posters that the Civil War and the North are just a synonomous as the Civil War and the South. "Is it just a Southern thing?" Nope, it is and was a nationwide thing. My point was and is to make sure that those reading this post don't take it and stigmatize us Southerners unfairly as so many have done in the past and present.

"I love the way a southern man treats a lady! And I might add a southern man considers all women ladies!"

Yes we do. At least until they stop acting like one at which point we won't sacrifice our coats by throwing them over mud puddles for them ;)

I will say they I have seen a growing tension between North and South over the past few years and haven't been able to really figure out why.

As to the slavery issue I will say that I believe the blacks of this country as well as others should get reperations for their ancestors being held in bondage. I beleieve that those responsible for slavery should pay up! So as soon as the black caucus studies their history for the first time they can start going after the responsible parties, Spain and Africa. Once they figure this out I'll help them go after Spain and Africa by doing whatever I can and Spain and Africa should pay up! ;)

Cindy, so much of history has actually been lost and meanings as well as false backgrounds have been given to so many things that it's not even funny. That is why you hear very little about it in Northern states other than blurbs. To the North they won and that's all anyone needs to know but in the South it's a little different. If you actually dig a little bit into the history (and not that published regurgitation from school) you will find out why the South holds this part of its history up like it does. It has been so distorted by our public school systems that what you think is history is actually someones "take" on it, not what actually happened in many cases. If you want a good story to find out just how distorted history has been do a little research into General Custer. He was painted as a savior to the white settlers and great indian hunter and strategist. He was infact an egomaniacal, halfwit with homicidal tendancies. He slaughtered people in cold blood but it's amazing how none of that made it into histroy books ;)

And that, young lady is why the South keeps the Civil War a little fresher on our minds. If we didn't that part of history would probably be lost to how people "wish" or "think" it was instead of what really happened. As it is many people still think the Civil War was fought over slavery when nothing could be farther from the truth.

People still believe that the Rebel flag was flown in protest to those trying to abolish slavery and it had nothing to do with it. But even today states are being forced to stop flying this flag because of "what it represents" This just goes to show that ignorance reigns king once again. It represented the Southern opposition to getting the short end of the stick when it came to equal representation in the government and was flown high during the war in protest to the treatment being given to Southern land owners (many were murdered simply because of geographic location by mercenaries hired by the Union army a "friend now greeting foe" scenario) The Union army didn't go into these states to free slaves either. Slaves were considered property and therefore were killed, not unlike cattle, to hurt the land owners business and drive them out.

Like I said I'm not saying that you are implying anything but I am trying to wet the appetite of the would be historians in us all to find out some things that were real vs. those that were fabricated for political reasons and political gain and now are deemed "history."

I find this string very intresting and I'm not angry at all. I'm just answering your question and shedding a little light on the subject as I go ;)

Darris C.

[Pete Hanlin]

To the North they won and that's all anyone needs to know but in the South it's a little different.

And that, young lady is why the South keeps the Civil War a little fresher on our minds. If we didn't that part of history would probably be lost to how people "wish" or "think" it was instead of what really happened.

I think you are agreeing with Cindy's original point, Darris. Namely, Southerners do place more importance on the history and events of the Civil War than Northerners (on the average). Coincidentally, I happen to be quite interested in the Civil War. Naturally, I am going to have a "Northern" perspective on the whole thing.

Was the war about slavery? No. Was the issue of slavery representative of the main problem (a feeling in the South that they were not proportionately represented in the government of the United States)? Yes. The South realized that its best interests were not neccesarily the same as the North's. Furthermore, it was becoming apparent that the states that were being added to the Union at the time were going to fall on the Northern side of various issues. When Lincoln was elected, the electorate had been so clearly divided (he won in the North and lost in the South), that the South decided he was the "Northern" President and not their own.

The South fired the first shots of the war (Fort Sumter). Largely because the North had far superior industry, partly because the Brits never lended real support to the Confederacy, and finally because Gen. Ulysses Grant waged the first war of attrition, which bled the South dry- the South ceased hostility (but never really admitted defeat). The most shameful chapter of the story came with the Northern carpetbaggers after the war (and the fact that the emancipation proclamation wasn't really put into practice for almost 100 years).

Was the South's cause just? Depends who you ask. They had agreed to be part of a Union, but our nation was founded on the principle of self-rule. Are we a better nation as a Union than we would have been as two countries? Well, who can really tell, but I think America emerged out of the Great Depression (thank you, WWII) as the greatest superpower the world has yet seen (not by conquest but by sphere of influence). Am I proud to be an American? Damn straight!
:D

[LaurieC]

Darris Chambless said:
My point was and is to make sure that those reading this post don't take it and stigmatize us Southerners unfairly as so many have done in the past and present.
Darris C.

At the risk of sounding like too nice of a person
;) I hope you didn't feel I was putting down Southerners. I was just horsing around:(

I LOVE Southerners

One in particular:D

[Judy Canty]

As an interesting side note, the Emancipation Proclamation was somewhat selectively applied. It did not free slaves held in Northern states and it exempted areas of the South considered to be loyal to the North.

[Blake]

The shooting may have ended in the 1860's, but the hostilities didn't. It wasn't as if Lee surrendered and everyone joined hands and sang songs. There were plenty of Northerners who wanted to stick it to the South for their insurrection. And there were some (the carpetbaggers Pete mentioned) who saw an opportunity to make money off the situation.
After Reconstruction it was a very long time before a Southern politician with any realistic hope of getting elected would dare run as a Republican (a.k.a. the Party of Lincoln), regardless of his political beliefs.
I saw an article in the paper the other day that said schools in the South refer to the Civil War by other names, such as the War of Northern Aggression. I can't speak for everywhere, but I grew up in Alabama and had never even heard it called anything but the Civil War until a few years ago.
I don't think a majority of Southerners dwell on it, certainly not as much as our friends up North think we do.

Blake

[EyeManFla]

First of all, If Virginia didn't have the Civil War....nobody would go there, except for that tourist trap in Williamsburg. (Besides, people from Richmond and Petersburg think folks living in Arlington and Alexandria are Yankees anyway.

Of course, growing up in Philadelphia gave me a decided Unionist slant to things...relatives in the Irish Brigade and all.

When I moved to Maryland, however.........I have a number of relatives who live in Hagerstown, so the history of Antietam was quite and interesting thing for me.

My appreciation for the southern point of view came when I read that massive tome by Shelby Foote back in college.

Now, living in Florida is another matter altogether. As you know, Floridians who live NORTH of Gainsville consider themselves Southerners while Floridians SOUTH of Gainsville consider themselves...everything else but! My favorite story is of my ex-wife's family. The Chapins consider thenselves Southerners despite the fact that their most illustrious Civil War relative, General Charles Chapin, was a UNION general. Seems when the Yankee invaders settled here, thay became more southern that the native CRACKERS.........that's something the Irish can relate to very well!

[Darris Chambless]

Bravo Blake,

Once again Blake has been both truthful and to the point. We southerners don't dwell on the Civil War but we do keep it in perspective regarding history. I don't dwell on it but it does get disheartening to be lumped into the same pot as so many extremists simply by virtue of geographic location.

"I think you are agreeing with Cindy's original point, Darris. Namely, Southerners do place more importance on the history and events of the Civil War than Northerners (on the average)."

Absolutely Pete but that's not how her original post came across to me and I'm sure many others as well. My postings are to quell any attitude that by virtue of location all southerners dwell on the civil war and want to sucede from the Union. As to who fired the first shot, well that's kind of immaterial at present, but if you look at the "cause" that you referred to then one can ask ones self who figuratively fired the first shot. Physically the south did, figuratively by virtue of representation in the governement the North did.

As to the slavery issue I agree that it played a part in the war but not to the extent that is widely believed. I should have been more specific when I said: "As it is many people still think the Civil War was fought over slavery when nothing could be farther from the truth." the meaning in that is that slavery was not the sole reason for the war not that it didn't play a part, but again not just for the purpose of owning or being allowed to own slaves.

"Coincidentally, I happen to be quite interested in the Civil War. Naturally, I am going to have a "Northern" perspective on the whole thing."

There is no such thing as a "Northern" perspective only a liberal one ;) It makes for good history if you word it just right and sometimes you can even make an "issue" out of it for political gain :)

Anyway let me say that I'm not mad, angry, disgusted or even mildly upset by any of this at anyone. I'm just adding the southern take in hopes of answering a question or two. And remember there are two types of southerners; 1) Chip 2) and then the rest of the south :) Actually I will add one more thing and that is that I too had never heard of the Civil war being called the War of Northern Aggression until Chip brought it up :)

Well Pete, when you come for a visit we can compare notes and see what we come up with ;)

Take care everyone...Yes, you too Chip :)

Darris C.

[Cindy Hamlin]

Darris,
Can you recommend something I might read in order to better understand the Civil War? I am willing to learn why it is such a hot button.

Thanks for telling me that you understood what I meant, not necessarily what I said!:D

[stephanie]

Hey Cindy you can talk to my husband. He is a serious history buff. He knows everything about anything pertaining to any of the wars. Whenever I ask him how did you know that he always says common knowledge Steph I thought everyone knew that. I on the other hand the only thing historical that intrigues me is the Holocaust. I took a class in High school and was totally amazed how that actually happened. I could read everything on it for hours. Pete: yea I was laughing at your post because I turn the lights awwwwn, do you want a cup of coooffee, or a glass of wooter. My g-ma is from Pittsburg so I am used to hearing her talk of warshing the clothes and she says yuns too. A couple expressions here I don't think I will ever get used to " I might could???" and "it hasn't came in yet???" of course the first time I heard a woman say I dropped my eye last night I freaked and said WHAT??? and of course she said I dropped my eye last night just like the doc told me to. Of course youse guys know what I was thinkin' right??? I have my expressions too... the doc I used to work with used to like when I said to contact lens pts "how are you making out with your contacts" she said it sounded like they were kissing!!! LOL!!! Oh yea Pete and orange coke. Every soda is coke even pepsi is coke. I went to a friend's house once and she said do you want a coke and brought me a Dr. Pepper. LOL!!! I am still laughiing about the unsweetened tea. I never thought of it that way Chip. Back home you never had to ask for it without sugar because it never had it!!! LOL!!

Steph

[Jackie L]

Shortly after I moved to Virginia Beach, my husband and I went out dancing. There was a young man (26 or so) that wore a shirt that stated:

If you do not like my confederate flag, you can kiss my rebel ***. (rhymes with bass)

If I were 20 years younger, on a bet, I would have set his shirt on fire. What an eye opener for this snow bird.