Patients asking for PD's to order online...what do you do?

[standarduck]

Taking a PD measurement is not rocket science. Just searching the web, there are instructions available for patients to take their own measurements (or have a friend do it). It may not be perfect, but neither are all opticians perfect, and it will probably be close enough most people. There are iPhone apps that will automatically calculate it, as well as other web apps from online retailers that will do it. They work by uploading a photograph of the patient with a know object in the picture for scale (such as a credit card, which are of uniform size). Many of these apps are not much different than apps provided by lens manufacturers such as Hoya that run on an iPad to take all the measurements (PD, panto, etc) for their ID MyStyle lenses.

You could always just tell the patient that - then they could get their own PD, and it would kind of remove the stress of them coming back and blaming you.

[AngeHamm]

In other professions people have learned years ago when home depot started to become popular that any plumbing part could be had for a fraction of the cost it used to be earlier.

How many of you can recall a plumbers invoice which states today $ 2.80 for a seal and 2.5 hours of labour at $ 85.00 for the service, and a total invoice for $ 215.30. Some of them will even charge to come to the house.

All of us go to Home Depot and their equivalent competitors without even thinking that they actually had killed the independent local hard ware stores some years ago before there was an internet with instant public communications possibility.

To quote Super Hans from Peep Show: "Plumbing's just Lego. Water Lego."

[scriptfiller]

We only supply the PD measurement to our established patients who we have records for. All else are told that is the responsibility of the entity furnishing the spectacles. Will do so until law tells us to do otherwise.

[drk]

Do you guys see this as a "records release" issue? In other words, since the information is there, they are entitled to it?

Do you feel the same about copies of expired Rxs?

[opty4062]

Do you guys see this as a "records release" issue? In other words, since the information is there, they are entitled to it?

Do you feel the same about copies of expired Rxs?

It is our policy to release any/all records to the patient as long as the account does not have a balance owed. This includes expired RXs that are plainly labeled with "expired do not fill" stamps.

[becc971]

Why draw the line at the p.d.?

Why not let them look through your inventory, maybe with you explaining what looks good on them? You could write down the frame number that they like.

And while you're at it, why not sit down with them at their website of choice and browse frames with them, telling them what you think would look good on them?

Why not enter their parameters in for them, so they don't make a mistake entering them themselves?

Why not help them select the best lens type for their needs, too?

Why not give them a free verification when the glasses arrive?

Why not give them a free initial adjustment?

Why not give them a free trouble-shoot if something goes wrong?

I don't see what the big fuss about all this is. Just give the customer what they want. Don't be rude or anything. Give your services away. Otherwise, you could lose them as your customer!

right, but why would you want someone to come back who is just getting free services and not supporting your business?

i feel like in retrospect you were being sarcastic here right? haha :)

[standarduck]

right, but why would you want someone to come back who is just getting free services and not supporting your business?

I'm almost certain it was sarcasm.

[becc971]

Massachusetts Board of Opticianry doesn't agree with that statement. Odds of it happening are slim to none, but if my license is taken away then so is my income.

I know that bar tending (different career but same idea) was that way for me in Massachusetts also. It didn't matter if i served that person 1 drink or 7, if they got into an accident i was personally liable for the damages. AND my company would get fined as well, and clearly i would lose my job haha :)

[becc971]

I'm almost certain it was sarcasm.

i edited my post after haha ... i was like waiiiiiiiit .....

its hard to tell sarcasm over the internet first read

[m0002a]

I know that bar tending (different career but same idea) was that way for me in Massachusetts also. It didn't matter if i served that person 1 drink or 7, if they got into an accident i was personally liable for the damages. AND my company would get fined as well, and clearly i would lose my job haha :)

No, you are wrong about that also. Anyone can sue anyone, regardless of the merit of the case. Unless a bartender had some reason to believe the customer already had been drinking, severing them one drink will not cause a bartender to be liable for any accident they subsequently caused.

[m0002a]

You could always just tell the patient that - then they could get their own PD, and it would kind of remove the stress of them coming back and blaming you.

I am sure you are right. Not having customers will reduce the stress on you of having to serve them. At least until you loose your job due to lack of customers.

As I mentioned before, there are online web apps and iPod apps that can measure PD very accurately, and pretty soon you are going to be begging customers to come into your shop for a free PD, just so you can get a chance to sell them eyewear. Sort of like when car dealers pay people to take a test drive of a new car.

[coupe]

With CC now running retail outlets in BC, with auto refraction RX's how long until big E decides there is enough jurise prudence to take a shot a some other province. Not Ontario or Quebec but lets say a small one, NS,PEI etc where big E can over power the gouverment lawyers. Hail one more victory for the onliners. More legal acceptance , more provinces get eaten up. Shades of great glasses. He had the right idea, but at the wrong time,in the wrong place.

Big E is rumoured to have taken financial records from one of Que larger chain operations. Why......a win win situation. Online sales with B&M pick up and adjustments.

Why do we all assume that online glasses are CRAP. We all know that it does not take a master optician to make a pair of eyeglasses.

Optometrist have less to worry about online than opticians.

[Scott Emery]

We have a Zeiss I Terminal at our practice, and we have a option for the measurements. The cost is $35.00 for the print out. That usually quiets down the loud, you owe me my PD customer, and they leave quietly because its offered for a price, which they are too cheap to pay!!

Scott

[Paul Smith LDO]

Do you guys see this as a "records release" issue? In other words, since the information is there, they are entitled to it?

Do you feel the same about copies of expired Rxs?

If patient, ABC, asks for a copy of their records we will gladly provide them with a complete copy for a small fee. An expired RX is another story, we do not provide them to the patient, as it is the Dr's RX for patient, ABC. That information is on the back of the exam chart and in their records if they require it. If a patient has purchased glasses from me and they are wearing a SV RX I will provide them with their IPD, if not, that is the responsibility of the contracted party doing said individuals work, period.

[Bill West]

Why draw the line at the p.d.?

Why not let them look through your inventory, maybe with you explaining what looks good on them? You could write down the frame number that they like.

And while you're at it, why not sit down with them at their website of choice and browse frames with them, telling them what you think would look good on them?

Why not enter their parameters in for them, so they don't make a mistake entering them themselves?

Why not help them select the best lens type for their needs, too?

Why not give them a free verification when the glasses arrive?

Why not give them a free initial adjustment?

Why not give them a free trouble-shoot if something goes wrong?

I don't see what the big fuss about all this is. Just give the customer what they want. Don't be rude or anything. Give your services away. Otherwise, you could lose them as your customer!

I totally agree. THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING!

[racethe1320]

I don't see what the big fuss about all this is. Just give the customer what they want. Don't be rude or anything. Give your services away. Otherwise, you could lose them as your customer!

The fact stands that if they are asking, you already have lost them as a customer. Every few months this same topic rolls around the board when it would likely be time better spent to find out what the individual office could be doing different to retain more Rx's in their own dispensary. You won't keep 100% but again, if people are asking then there's either something you've done or not done that is the root-cause for them walking.

[Barry Santini]

Customer yes. Client, no.
B

[m0002a]

The fact stands that if they are asking, you already have lost them as a customer. Every few months this same topic rolls around the board when it would likely be time better spent to find out what the individual office could be doing different to retain more Rx's in their own dispensary. You won't keep 100% but again, if people are asking then there's either something you've done or not done that is the root-cause for them walking.

Your post (and some others) are assuming that this is for existing customers who may have just gotten an eye exam and want their PD also, so they can walk out the store and purchase online. I can see your point to some degree, but there are other situations (especially as explained in the other recent thread on this subject) where customers call the optical shop to find out about getting a PD only, but the customer has had no prior interaction with the onsite OD or optical prior to that point. That is why I said it would be better to charge them a reasonable fee for the service, if you can get them into the store for the first time, versus them never coming in.

The other situation is where a patient gets an exam from an OD, and also wants a PD to purchase lenses online. I can see how that is a little bit more tricky, but I am not sure that refusing to offer that service for a small fee is more likely to get them to purchase lenses from you.

But bottom line is that it is not that hard to have a PD measurement taken online. I would post a link to sites that do it (by patient uploading a photo of their face with an object with a known size such as credit card in the pic for reference), but I suspect that posting the link would cause a firestorm on this forum. It's basically the same way as the Hoya iPad application works for the MyStyle fitting.

[Fred Dagg]

At this stage, it's not been a big enough issue for me to try and be tricky by witholding the PD from the rx, if the patient requests it. I think we (optometrists) need to try and build our practice around exam fees, as the internet becomes more and more pervasive. I'm a bit more expensive than most of my local competition, so I figure if I lose the rx, at least I've charged a decent exam fee, and I include the PD as part of that service. Patients who take their script away are perhaps never going to be my greatest clients, but I'd rather have them in for a properly-charged exam every 2 years, rather than try and be tricky by leaving out the PD and losing them altogether by appearing petty.

i have never been asked for a PD measurement by a non-client. I would have to invent a fee if that happened.

[drk]

My post was meant as pure sarcasm.

[becc971]

No, you are wrong about that also. Anyone can sue anyone, regardless of the merit of the case. Unless a bartender had some reason to believe the customer already had been drinking, severing them one drink will not cause a bartender to be liable for any accident they subsequently caused.

if you took part in any activity involving injury to a 3rd party. Unless this has changed. dram shop laws are intense. but we digress.

[m0002a]

if you took part in any activity involving injury to a 3rd party. Unless this has changed. dram shop laws are intense. but we digress.

becc971 claimed that regardless of whether a bartender served a customer 1 drink, or 7 drinks, if the customer left the bar and got into an accident and injured someone, the bartender could be held liable. Clearly, if the bartender served the customer 7 drinks, the bartender might be held liable. But just as clearly, if the bartender only served the customer 1 drink (and there was absolutely no reason to believe the customer had be drinking prior to that), it is extremely unlikely that a bartender would be convicted or held liable of taking part in any improper activity by the customer once the customer left the bar.

But anyone can sue anyone and attempt to claim damages, even if there is no chance they will win. Sort of like anyone can post anything on the internet even if it is not correct.

[mattybell]

I always tell them that the person who is making their glasses is responsible for taking that measurement.

Ha ha, this is gold!

To be honest we have not had anyone ask for the PD as yet. We do get a few people browse in store and then head online to buy the frames and then ask to fit the lenses.

But I see it happening a lot in the future.

[Robert_S]

Ha ha, this is gold!

To be honest we have not had anyone ask for the PD as yet. We do get a few people browse in store and then head online to buy the frames and then ask to fit the lenses.

But I see it happening a lot in the future.

Same here in the UK. But it seems to be a big problem in the US.

[standarduck]

I am sure you are right. Not having customers will reduce the stress on you of having to serve them. At least until you loose your job due to lack of customers.

As I mentioned before, there are online web apps and iPod apps that can measure PD very accurately, and pretty soon you are going to be begging customers to come into your shop for a free PD, just so you can get a chance to sell them eyewear. Sort of like when car dealers pay people to take a test drive of a new car.

It will reduce the stress, you're quite right. I haven't had a patient ask me for a PD in over three years, so I can't see it making a massive difference on my working life at the moment. We are at the higher end of things, so the exclusivity of this corner of the market is more resilient to threats from online retail.

As for begging patients for anything - I tend to rely on them coming to me, which works as long as you do a good job. As long as I make sure everyone I see is happy, I hope it continues to work.

Are you always so aggressive to people who might disagree with you? I didn't mean to get your back up.