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  1. #1
    Sawptician PAkev's Avatar
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    Review: Definity by J&J

    Product: DEFINITY
    Vendor: JOHNSON & JOHNSON
    Vendor Home Page:
    Category: Lenses
    Reviewer: Kevin Treat (PAkev)

    Ratings:
    Quality:
    Ease of use:
    Client acceptance (if applicable):
    Customer service of the manufacturer or distributor:
    Value:
    Overall:

    Review:
    As both consumers and retailers we are often influenced by product hype and advertising. Discerning between something that is just sponging from profit margins or does indeed offer a legitimate benefit is often the biggest vice of our decision to use a new product. However, while we may be waiting to evaluate market reaction to these products, it can be very easy to loose pace with new technology and prevailing industry demands turning your "Status Quo" into "Status Low".

    This review addresses one of the latest buzz words flying around the optical industry, "Free Form Technology" Unlike conventional PAL's originating from an inventory of specific pre manufactured stock lens blanks, new free form technology enables patients to now recognize super premium lenses that are truly customized for their specific prescription demands and frame choice. Although there are already a few players in this arena, a name that first comes to the mind of many is Johnson and Johnson's DEFINITY progressive lenses.

    My first reaction was of usual indifference every time I learn of a new PAL claiming to have superior design features. After meeting a J&J sales rep, understanding their claim of superiority, and recognizing the higher price compared to conventional premium PAL lenses, I was first hesitant to using the new J&J DEFINITY product. However, the tide soon changed as patients began asking if we carried the new PAL lenses which they have seen advertised on TV. In my opinion, any advertising our vendors do to end user consumers, the more perceived value a product carries to influence their buying behavior and ultimately enables us to concentrate on features which the product affords instead of price. Like most other PAL's, the prevailing attention is given to how J&J has developed the DEFINITY"S reading zone. Although many PAL's have proprietary designs with wider reading zones, J&J's dual surface add design has made their technology easiest to explain to patients which also justifies the patients addional investment at the same time. In the past six months I have had the opportunity to fit several patients with their first pair of DEFINITY lenses without having any non adapts. These results have given me an optimistic outlook for super premium lens styles using free form technology.

    The major disappointment I have had with J&J is the fact that their product is exclusively distributed and can not be obtained through laboratories which we already have established relationships with. Their claim of turn around time is 3 to 5 days, however I have found 7 to 10 days to be more realistic. Those retailers also recognizing the benefits of buying groups will be disappointed to find they will have one extra bill to pay by using J&J products. As more manufacturers introduce free form technology, I believe J&J will have to revisit this policy in order to remain competitive.

    One of our biggest challenges has been in classifying free form technology PAL's. Since most major PAL manufacturers already have their version of a premium PAL design we decided to put it on a different playing field. While we still expect to sell many premium PAL lenses we don't want folks thinking we are selling inferior quality eyewear by making DEFINITY our premium choice and giving the impression of everything else as being substandard. We therefore have classified our DEFINITY as a "Super Premium" lens design which the patient construes as the latest and greatest. Overall, I think J&J has brought something to the table by offering a new standard in super premium PAL lens design and from my personal experience give it a thumbs up.

    Would you purchase this product or other products from this company based on your experience with this product?
    Yes.

  2. #2
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    What do your customers who.........

    have been wearing Varilux Comfort or other "soft design" lenses have to say about the difference between the two?
    "Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
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  3. #3
    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    One of our biggest challenges has been in classifying free form technology PAL's. Since most major PAL manufacturers already have their version of a premium PAL design we decided to put it on a different playing field.
    The review was superbly written and conveyed the impressions of the Definity product very well.

    Regarding direct surfacing (aka "FreeForm" - this name is actually copywrited by a particular lens manufacturer), I think it is important to understand the difference between "customization" and "direct surfacing."

    Direct surfacing gives laboratories the ability to create an aspheric surface- a progressive surface, for example- on the lens via a process involving a multi-axis generator and a specialized polishing system. However, just because the design is created with a direct surfacing process does NOT mean the design is necessarily "customized."

    The J&J Definity is a good example of a direct surfaced design that is not customized. An example of a direct surfaced design which IS customized would be Seiko Super Proceed Internal, Rodenstock Impression ILT, Shamir Autograph, or Varilux Ipseo.

    In Definity, direct surfacing is used to place 0.75D of the ADD power on the rear surface of the lens. In the original product (Definity2), the "Dual ADD" was accomplished with two molded surfaces which were adhered together. Due to manufacturing complications, this process was abandoned for the direct surfacing process used today.

    Although direct surfacing creates the potential for a unique design on each lens- based on either power, lifestyle, or the individual viewing habits of the wearer- it can also be used to create designs which stay the same from lens to lens. In Definity, every lens receives 0.75D of the ADD power on the rear surface- regardless of total ADD power. The design is not particularly customized.

    There are other "non-customized" products which also use a direct surfacing process. For example, in the 1.67 version SOLAOne is created via a direct surfacing process. This is done to reduce the inventory requirements of the laboratory. After all, the other interesting feature of direct surfacing is the ability to create many different designs and ADDs from a single SKU (blank).

    As I said, the review was very well written, and it is great to have the real experiences of an eye care professional to judge the efficacy of a particular product. As PAKev suggests, however, it is somewhat difficult to classify the "FreeForm" product. I'm just pointing out that "FreeForm" is simply a process- not a design characteristic. You can create any design using direct surfacing (Essilor Adaptar, SOLA VIP, Varilux Panamic, etc.), that doesn't mean you have a customized PAL. Additionally, some NON-freeform products are more "customized" than some of the "FreeForm" products out there.
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Vice President Professional Services
    Essilor of America

    http://linkedin.com/in/pete-hanlin-72a3a74

  4. #4
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    There are other "non-customized" products which also use a direct surfacing process. For example, in the 1.67 version SOLAOne is created via a direct surfacing process.
    Actually, SOLAOne in 1.67 is customized. ;) Each prescription lens is completely optically optimized for the typical as-worn position. Using proprietary optimization software, a base design is ray-traced for each wearer's prescription and adjusted in order to maximize performance. This process is repeated (iterated) until the best possible design is achieved. You can think of it as an atoric-like correction, specific to each individual prescription, incorporated into the design, but it's obviously more complicated than that. The distance and near powers are also adjusted for the typical as-worn position, so the lab will receive a compensated Rx form.

    Best regards,
    Darryl

  5. #5
    Same goes for Zeiss Individual. Totally custom...

  6. #6
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    Zeiss Invisual is not a trully customized lens...It is trully about the hype, not the design iwth this product.
    Optical Genius

  7. #7
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    Definity

    I've been getting great results from Definity. After reading what Kevin and Bev were saying I thought I would give it a try.It is somewhat tiring to constantly hear people complain about the narrowness of the channel and corridor and if this was the solution, I was all ears. When I finally got mine ( JandJ wasn't quite sure they wanted to open an account with me- I don't deal in contact lenses) I was in focus wherever I looked.The lens has been a wonderfull addition to my practice,improving my bottom line, and customer relations. They love the lens too.

    I am anxiously awaiting a new Rx so I can try SolaOne.If anyone out there is already wearing one, please consider doing a product review in this forum.
    Last edited by hcjilson; 05-13-2005 at 03:03 PM. Reason: spelling again!
    "Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
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  8. #8
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    Zeiss Invisual is not a trully customized lens...It is trully about the hype, not the design iwth this product
    Uhhh... Yes, it is. The lens design is optimized for the wearer's individual prescription, pantoscopic tilt, vertex distance, PD, and near working distance.

    Best regards,
    Darryl

  9. #9
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    Daryl,

    So if the rx is a -1.00 why do we care about the tilt, vertex? Daryl, it is really NOT a custom lens. It takes inot account, things that we all should as opticians. Ipseo is the first TRUE custom PAL product in the market. It takes into consideration things that matter, like the eye/head ratio of patients. We need to identify how peolpe use their head and eye movement to see. Not what thier vertex is. Individual is a good lens, but it is not custom. Infact, Varilux Panamic offers more designs than the Zeiss lens.
    Optical Genius

  10. #10
    Sawptician PAkev's Avatar
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    As indicated in my review, I am aware of other manufacturers in the "free form technology" arena. Although, PAL lens superiority can be argued by folks in the trade all day long, the other half is developing and maintaining a successful marketplace for a good product. Those circumstances were the prevailing reason of using the J&J DEFINITY throughout the review.

    Remove yourself from the optical industry for a moment to realize how folks fealt about going for an airplane ride in 1903 with Langley or the Wright Bros. It took a lot of "confidence building" before passengers started standing in line at what we now call airports.

    This is where I belive the context of my review supports J&J has done an excellent job of developing a good product while also developing
    good "End User" consumer acceptance.

    Kevin

  11. #11
    Banned Jim Stone's Avatar
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    Darryl Meister said:
    Actually, SOLAOne in 1.67 is customized. ;) Each prescription lens is completely optically optimized for the typical as-worn position. Using proprietary optimization software, a base design is ray-traced for each wearer's prescription and adjusted in order to maximize performance. This process is repeated (iterated) until the best possible design is achieved. You can think of it as an atoric-like correction, specific to each individual prescription, incorporated into the design, but it's obviously more complicated than that. The distance and near powers are also adjusted for the typical as-worn position, so the lab will receive a compensated Rx form.

    Best regards,
    Darryl
    I am sorry Darryl, if you are talking about a simi finished product, you are not even close. Same for Zeiss. As for PAkev,this is just the kind of BS PR you'd expect from J&j. You are going after VLUX You go gett em!!!!

  12. #12
    He isn't talking about semi-finished which is why he is right on target. READ THE WHOLE THREAD.

    I suppose I would agree that the PR is BS. But I think most PR is just that including both JJ and Varilux!

  13. #13
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    J & J Review

    We are getting excellent results with the Definity. Many individuals who have worn other brands notice the increased view immediately. I dispensed a pair to one of our optoms the other day. I wear alot of brands and must say it is working out far superior then the others I have currently.

    Kevin, you did a great job on the review.

  14. #14
    OptiBoard Apprentice keagles2's Avatar
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    Definity

    :idea: I have had a bit of non acceptance from Definity wearers. Is anyone out there seeing the same problem?
    Most of my wearers claim to see well out of one eye and not the other.When discussing this w/Definity I have been told that they have pre calculated the near pd 's based on the distance pd's.:drop:
    Keagle

  15. #15
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    I have had more non-adapts to the Definity than any other recent PAL design.

  16. #16
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allanon
    I have had more non-adapts to the Definity than any other recent PAL design.
    Thats strange, I have been selling the lens for just about a year. It has become my PAL of choice and in all that time,I have only had one non adapt, and I suspect that was not due to lens design. I am positive J&J has the statistics to back their claim of a higher acceptance rate because they have studies to back every single claim they make.I know that Varilux has acceptance rate statistics as well, as does every lens manufacturer.
    "Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
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  17. #17
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    We use so many progressives. The Definity really is well accepeted by individuals who previously wore a variety of progrssives individulay. Better yet the short is gaining headway.:cheers:

  18. #18
    Optiboard Professional Bill West's Avatar
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    Over Priced

    Well, when you spend a fortune to try and hype the American public and fail because the price is too high. SELL IT TO ANOTHER CORP AND LET THEM TRY IT. Greed is fast creeping into optical like most other corps.There is no such thing as a $360.00 poly lens. They even offered the dispenser a $50.00 rebate. I didn't bite did you?:finger:
    Bill West, TBDOA - IWFMO -NPOBSH
    Last edited by Bill West; 08-05-2005 at 12:06 PM.

  19. #19
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    Just to correct the record......

    The $50.00 rebate was to the customer, NOT the dispenser. As far as my practice, and those of a few others I am familiar with, Johnson and Johnson delivered on the "hype" by providing a product that was superior in many respects, to other products I was using. The product certainly did not fail.

    I do not know this for a fact, but my best quess is that Essilor initiated the aquisition talks rather than the other way around.The reason I think it was this way was because I think Essilor recognized the Definity filled a niche in their product line and all the road work (product development, and marketing) had been done. They weren't buying a pig in a poke, they had a proved product.

    To claim the reasoning had anything to do with greed is ludicrous. We operate in a capitalistic business climate driven by profits. Ethical companies are driven by their stockholders not by greed.I know both companies and I know them to be ethical.
    "Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
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  20. #20
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    THAT NO DISADVANTAGE for J&J?

    So that you all said that, can J&J wearer switch to other PAL?

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