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Thread: Zeiss and Walmart

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    Bad address email on file fvc2020's Avatar
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    Angry Zeiss and Walmart

    Hello


    My friend who works as a Zeiss expect fitter(whatever)was told that Zeiss has agreed to sell to Walmart their full line of products:angry: The rep told her that it was a decision from Europe Zeiss(whatever it is called) and the American side was very mad. Now I know that Walmart has their coating, but now it seems that they are going to have Gradals, Brevity etc....How does everyone one feel about this?


    Christina

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    Bad address email on file sjthielen's Avatar
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    I have spoken to one of the heads at Zeiss and was told that will be selling a zeiss lens that is specific to walmart. It is not the same technology as the gradal top or individuals. By the way Essilor does the same thing in lenscrafters. Its not what you sell but how you sell it.

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    One of the worst people here
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    My lab rep told me that Walmart (Canada at least) is moving away from Essilor and is now going to use Nikon and Rodenstock.

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    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Old Habits ..........................

    sjthielen said:

    I have spoken to one of the heads at Zeiss and was told that will be selling a zeiss lens that is specific to walmart. It is not the same technology as the gradal top or individuals.
    I would just like to remind you that in the 1960's and early 1970's
    AMERICAN OPTICAL used to sell a cheaper lens brand than their famous corrected curve "Tyllier" lenses to South America and Canada.

    It then turned out to be the Tyllier lens in another envelope. AO executives admitted that it was cheaper this way than to get equiped with more tooling to make another lens curve.

    Just package the same stuff in another dress and it becomes a different product sold to other market interest's.

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    Master OptiBoarder keithbenjamin's Avatar
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    I also believe Walmart Optical isn't allowed to use the Zeiss name in their marketing.

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    Sawptician PAkev's Avatar
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    I heard rumor of this a few months ago so it wasn't such a bombshell to me when my rep broke the news.

    YES I am disappointed that a company which prides themseve's in premium quality optics steps into the value arena. Regardless if it is a different lens than their premium designs I can guarantee Wal Mart will be tooting their horn about offering the Zeiss name brand.

    Our Zeiss Gradal Top lenses just took a price hike of nearly 10%.........Ouch......Now only $25.00 less than Definity free form technology which can command a much higher profit margin and is not available from VALUE retailers. I certainly don't want it to be construed as "making an excuse" when mrs jones points out her Zeiss PAL package is $50 less at Wal Mart than our place and I try to explain the difference in the lens designs. I therefore plan to see how this affects us and in the mean time evaluate althernatives.

    I am guessing the higher powers at Zeiss realized the potential of a cause and effect reaction and put more value in an attractive contract.

    my .02
    Kevin

  7. #7
    Kieth,
    Its only a matter of time before Walmart markets Zeiss as a name brand.

    I can't believe Zeiss would be so stupid though. Walmart tends to decimate it's suppliers profit margins. (can we all say Valasic pickles)

    I'm sure that Pete will be here any minute telling us the ovation and Panamic aren't the same thing... so I wont say it. But I love the fact people bring up about putting the same lens in a different package.

    heehehahahahahaheehehaw:hammer:

  8. #8
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Therefore, Zeiss is more interested in the almightly dollar (deutchmark?) than the US Optical profession. I'd bet if we put a Walmart Optical in their backyard, they'd be whistling a different tune!

    This reminds me of the contact lens manufacturers, who will sell to anyone, including online retailers.

    The solution should be for us to emphasize service and expertise, and not necessarily products. We are more than what we sell! We are experts that analyze problems and solve them with products that we choose.

    We can't trust any materials companies to look out for us, since they operate under a different set of principles than we do: they want to make a buck, and we are supposed to help people first, and be compensated for our expertise secondly.

    If Zeiss is coming to the masses, then we have to be ready to step it up with individualized progressives, etc. Not to keep up with the Joneses, but to realize that the markets have made it possible for your average Joe to get a fine progressive, and now the market is making it possible for us to move to higher levels. Zeiss wouldn' t be selling their Gradal out for cheap unless they felt that the technology was going by the wayside. It's just too bad that their name will be sullied, regardless of how careful they try to be.

  9. #9
    Euros in germany. And I hear Walmart owns a bunch of schneider generators. They will be doing free form soon enouph.

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    Bad address email on file sjthielen's Avatar
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    product and technology is not what makes me better than my competition, skill and expertize is.

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    mrba said:
    Kieth,
    Its only a matter of time before Walmart markets Zeiss as a name brand.

    I can't believe Zeiss would be so stupid though. Walmart tends to decimate it's suppliers profit margins. (can we all say Valasic pickles)

    I'm sure that Pete will be here any minute telling us the ovation and Panamic aren't the same thing... so I wont say it. But I love the fact people bring up about putting the same lens in a different package.

    heehehahahahahaheehehaw:hammer:
    I do not have any fact infront of me, but I can get both the Ovation and the Panamic. I am very sure that they are different. Funny thing is that my patients seem to like the Ovation better.

  12. #12
    Unfortunately you nor I have any means to prove our thoughts on this... but I could point to a long history of un truths that this industry has propogated in the past... And that some old fogys tend to still believe.

    "If you don't backside cote a poly it will tint darker" is just one exapmple...

  13. #13
    Master OptiBoarder Cindy Hamlin's Avatar
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    Re: Old Habits ..........................

    Chris Ryser said:
    It then turned out to be the Tyllier lens in another envelope. AO executives admitted that it was cheaper this way than to get equiped with more tooling to make another lens curve.

    Just package the same stuff in another dress and it becomes a different product sold to other market interest's.
    Chris,
    Wasn't this how B&L got into the problems they had with their CLs and the class action suit?
    ~Cindy

    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." -Catherine Aird-

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    mrba said:
    Unfortunately you nor I have any means to prove our thoughts on this... but I could point to a long history of un truths that this industry has propogated in the past... And that some old fogys tend to still believe.

    "If you don't backside cote a poly it will tint darker" is just one exapmple...
    I feel that sometimes our industry is fueled too much by marketing. I mean, if you go to any lens website you will not see helpful information, just propaganda. It is really unfortunately. However, the marketing does push for the better.

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    Master OptiBoarder keithbenjamin's Avatar
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    I feel that sometimes our industry is fueled too much by marketing. I mean, if you go to any lens website you will not see helpful information, just propaganda. It is really unfortunately. However, the marketing does push for the better.
    This coming from the person who rarely has written a post without the words Essilor, Varilux, Airwear, or Crizal and frequently followed by "is the best." ;)

    Sorry, For-Life... couldn't resist.:bbg:

  16. #16

    Confused

    I would love to buy into the Essior story line. My only problem Is evertime I make an effort to spiel the story, they come out with new marketing that makes me look dumb to my customers (22hi, no 20hi, ok 18 works)...

    My other problem is my brain just can't fit all of the marketing in...

    I would like a Crizal AR coated airware poly ultra litestyle varilux panamic with alize in a nikon performance package please...And while I'm at it I will send it to an ELOA lab named...

    and so on and so forth.

    not to be negative or anything. I just need a simple life.

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    keithbenjamin said:
    This coming from the person who rarely has written a post without the words Essilor, Varilux, Airwear, or Crizal and frequently followed by "is the best." ;)

    Sorry, For-Life... couldn't resist.:bbg:
    No, you are right. Remember I do have my Honours of Bachalors degree in marketing, so that can be why. The thing is I am seeing Essilor do a lot of big things and I do not see anyone else do them (Stock Club, RX club, Ispeso). So that is why I like them. I also have never had problems with their coatings, where I have had with many other companies.

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    Pakev:

    If you don't carry Zeiss, you won't have to worry about comparison shoppers.

    Problem solved!

    (I don't carry Safilo for the same reason; too many WM shoppers were price shopping them with me.)


    DRK:

    Welcome to Optiboard!


    As far as "operarting under a different set of principals" goes:

    No, I don't expect any company to "look out for me". I deal with companies that are profit driven, and they derive their profit by delivering quality products and quaility services. On the other hand, I try not to buy from companies that charge independents high prices, so that the WMs of the world (and the LCs) can pay less.

    As far as the reason I'm in this profession...

    I'm profit driven as well. I expect to make a profit by delivering quality products and quality services. I can't help but be of service to my patients, but that is not the reason I got into this profession. The Peace Corps is a great avenue if you are looking to help people. (VOSH is even better!)

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    Bad address email on file sjthielen's Avatar
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    Johns you may want to concentrate on letting patients know that you are a better optician than those at WM. That will make them purchase with you regardless ofyour prices. In my market we are not even close to being the lowest price but patients that price shop almost always choose us. Hmmm I wonder why?

  20. #20
    I like to hear independants talk about how they are better than so and so, whether or not its WM or otherwise.

    Although I am familiar with stories of "chain optician" incompetance, somewhere out there, perhaps closer than you think, there is an optician at WM who is better than you... Perhaps better than anyone on opti board.

    Humility please.:drop:

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    Re: Re: Old Habits ..........................

    Cindy Hamlin said:
    Chris,
    Wasn't this how B&L got into the problems they had with their CLs and the class action suit?
    Cindy,

    I am sorry but I could not comment on CL questions as this is one domaine in the optical I was never in and admit to be ignorant.

    However I know that B&L had made some stupid moves before the CL started abd had pulled out of lens business.

    However American Optical sold their AMOPTIC lenses, which were the 'Tyllier"brand as seconds for many years. I used to buy them when I had my wholesale Lab.

    We should not forget that the economy world wide is in a slump and this seems to affect everybody these days.

    We do make and sell some items that are used in manufacturing of lenses to many of the large corporations and their purchasing slowed down and has becomne irregular. Some month a little more again and then there is another drop. No steady flow of orders.

    When a manufacturer starts feeling the crunch of the economy he looks to boost sales.

    As the regular sales channels are saturated and do not produce any increases but a slow down, he has to look for other way's to make sales.

    Zeiss had always been protective of the professional markets. In the 1950's they refused to sell to the President of the German optical master association because he has opened a store on t6he 2nd floor of a commercial building. 2nd floor offices were considered discount store at the time.
    Zeiss finally backed off after the opticians in the affected stores would ask customers:" Would you like a ZEISS lens or something better?"

    Times have changed, but most probably if ZEISS does sell to WalMart it will boost their sales considerably and they will not have to worry about any lashback by the optical retail trade which is still in love with Luxottica, even that they are becoming an optical flesh-eating disease by controlling 35% of the optical retail market.

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    Not to long ago, I was speaking with my lab-rep and he was telling me that Zeiss is going to be introducing a new product that will be as tough if not tougher than Crizal. If this is the case, anything that Zeiss has been producing will become an inferior product and therefore they will introduce it to the discount houses at inferior prices. This opens the door to the privates to offer a new premire product that would not be permitted to the WM's and such. However, I believe this to be a double edge blade as Zeiss will be contradicting themselves. How can a company claim to be a quality manufacturer when playing bothsides of the fence? If Mrs. Jones went price shopping and was quoted for a Zeiss Ar at $xx but you offer it higher, where is Mrs. Jones going to go? All she hears is Zeiss. What you are expressing to her about the quality difference is in one side and out the other. To me What Zeiss has done has created a wrinkle in their own product delivery. They want to boost sales, but ousting the private is not the way to do it.

    :cheers:

    Cowboy
    Last edited by Cowboy; 03-23-2004 at 09:35 AM.

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    Just An Optician jediron1's Avatar
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    Big Smile

    Chris,
    Wasn't this how B&L got into the problems they had with their CLs and the class action suit?


    __________________
    ~Cindy

    Cindy you are right. B&L tried to repackage some of there lenses
    by calling them different names, same product but a different name. If I remember correctly they hit upon the idea of highlighting another characteristic of the lens where by exploiting
    the lens as another version, even though it was the same lens.
    :drop:

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    Just An Optician jediron1's Avatar
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    Big Smile

    sjthielen said:
    I have spoken to one of the heads at Zeiss and was told that will be selling a zeiss lens that is specific to walmart. It is not the same technology as the gradal top or individuals. By the way Essilor does the same thing in lenscrafters. Its not what you sell but how you sell it.

    It all comes down to money. WM shoves enough money in there
    face and they crack and fold and roll over like a puppy dog saying, we will do what ever you want just show us the green baby! Zeiss is like any other company they want to make money
    any way they can.

    "It was the best of times and it was the worst of times"
    Charles Dickens

    :hammer: :drop:

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    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Not possible ................

    Cowboy said:

    Not to long ago, I was speaking with my lab-rep and he was telling me that Zeiss is going to be introducing a new product that will be as tough if not tougher than Crizal. .........................

    :cheers:

    Cowboy
    Cowboy,

    Even ZEISS can not make a tougher AR coating than Crizal. All AR coatings are made with the same ingredients, the same material which isSIO2. And they are all the same and made with the same materials.

    As Pete has explained very methodically, the secret is to have a good hard coat which bonds the SIO2 layer to a plastic lens, on which the AR coating would delaminate very fast without without it.

    Sales reps always twist the tryth a bit in their favour.




    sjthielen said:
    have spoken to one of the heads at Zeiss and was told that will be selling a zeiss lens that is specific to walmart. It is not the same technology as the gradal top or individuals. By the way Essilor does the same thing in lenscrafters. Its not what you sell but how you sell it.

    Very simple again take lens out of envelope A and package it in envelope WM and you have a different product.
    No manufacturer will make different product because he's picked a new large account.

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