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Thread: Markup on Add-on

  1. #1
    Rising Star
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    Markup on Add-on

    First, I want to thanks everyone in this forum for being so helpful with all kind of information. This is a great forum. I do have another question regarding markups for add-ons.



    Just want to see what's the general mark up on the add-on?

    Tint
    Scratch Coating
    UV
    AR
    High power
    High Add
    Slab-Off
    Prism
    Polish and Edges
    Drill Mount Rimless
    Bevel and Groove

    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    I know folks posted some replies to help snv out. I've forwarded them on in case snv didn't get to view them.

    Perhaps folks can send snv a Private Message with markup information or snv can post and let us know if emailed information would be a problem.

    Sorry for all of the editing folks. If anyone who replied to the thread wants to know what they wrote, contact one of the moderators; this time I saved a copy.

  3. #3
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    Just because this is the first time I have experienced this, why did you remove the responses?

    :cheers:

    Cowboy

  4. #4
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    I am guessing Jo did this because this is an open forum. Any Joe Blow can read this stuff. And my personal opinion is that the general public doesn't need to know.

    Just last week, an acquaintance asked me what our markup on frames was. He guessed 3 or 4 times cost. I wouldn't tell him, since I don't see what business it is of his what our personal markup is, or what the ballpark markup is for the industry.

  5. #5
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    We're currently working on.....

    an addition to the posting guidelines which will say something to the effect that we are a public forum composed of eyecare professionals and the consuming public. As such, it is inappropriate to publish wholesale prices which might compromise the relationship between the professionals and the consumer.

    There is nothing wrong with asking the questions and directing anyone who wishes to provide information, to reply by Private Message, as was done in this case.This site is growing. I have sent many of my customers here because it is a great resource for information and others do the same. Optiboard should not be used to comparison shop, because this site is not commercial in nature, its a place to share knowledge and ideas.

    Hope this explanation is satisfactory. The administrator and moderators are lothe to make any changes in a post, but sometimes it is necessary to maintain good taste or to use common sense. It is always done as a last measure, and reluctantly. When this is done, it is usually accompanied be an explanation to the party(ies) involved.

    hj
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  6. #6
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Add ons ....................

    Not mentioning prices is a good way of functioning on a professional forum that is open to everybody.

    Add ons or take off's,are usually a good revenue source for opticians and optometrists, specially if they are equipped to do them in house and have learned to do them, and each indivual store or office can use the service or selling factor to be more competitive.

  7. #7
    Master OptiBoarder Texas Ranger's Avatar
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    I think it would be fair to post what we charge for the services mentioned. that said, it is not a matter of what the "mark-up" is, since each of us may have a different "cost" of providing those services, or different vendor sources, or may do some things "in-house". but even "in-house" service have a "cost" associated with them, they take a skilled technician, specialized equipment, such as drills, dye units, edging systems, grooving units, etc., the cost of the floor space that a finish lab takes up, etc. and it takes someones time to do it. if the service is "jobbed-out", there is a associated dollar value placed on the service by the lab, so, in general, that defines the cost of the service. but neither has anything to do with the price you charge the consumer, so, why not compare our add on fees; which has nothing to do with the cost/mark-up factor.

  8. #8
    Rising Star
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    Hello,

    sorry for the question with some controversy. If anyone would like to reply to the question, please p.m. if you could.


    thank you.

    snv

  9. #9
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    Texas Ranger said:
    I think it would be fair to post what we charge for the services mentioned. that said, it is not a matter of what the "mark-up" is, since each of us may have a different "cost" of providing those services, or different vendor sources, or may do some things "in-house". but even "in-house" service have a "cost" associated with them, they take a skilled technician, specialized equipment, such as drills, dye units, edging systems, grooving units, etc., the cost of the floor space that a finish lab takes up, etc. and it takes someones time to do it. if the service is "jobbed-out", there is a associated dollar value placed on the service by the lab, so, in general, that defines the cost of the service. but neither has anything to do with the price you charge the consumer, so, why not compare our add on fees; which has nothing to do with the cost/mark-up factor.
    It is our attempt at helping our industry avoid claims of price fixing or parallel collusion. Now that you mention retail, I guess mentioning our retail costs on an industry forum isn't that great an idea either. I'm guilty of posting retail costs myself. I guess I will have to remember to send PMs.

    It's a mad, mad, mad politically correct world.

  10. #10
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    price fixing or parallel collusion .........................

    Jo said:

    It is our attempt at helping our industry avoid claims of price fixing or parallel collusion. Now that you mention retail, I guess mentioning our retail costs on an industry forum isn't that great an idea either.
    Now that very soon ca 35% of the US retail optical market will be controlled by one major player ........................

    How will they work it to get around being accused of collusion and price fixing ??????????

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    Chris,

    The scenario you describe has come up a number of times. I wonder where the actual legal line is. I guess it is a case of keep doing what you are doing until a court tells you different.

    It always stinks when the other person owns Park Place.

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Actually, when I left LensCrafters back in December of 1995, they had in excess of 50 different price sheets for various areas around the country. Believe me, they were not the cheapest game in town. In fact, they tried to run things pretty much down the middle of the road.

  13. #13
    Master OptiBoarder Texas Ranger's Avatar
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    Jo, this is a forum of pretty much unrelated business entities, who compete in diverse markets, where there could be no parralel collusion, or inferrances of "price fixing".. I do believe that part of the industry problem is that we don't discuss pricing enough. I do not "survey" the market, and out clientele is apt to tell us frankly that we are fine in some areas and out of line in others. it's sort of like going into a Lexus dealer and telling them that they're selling Kia's for two fer one down the street. what does it matter? but to many eyewear consumers, glasses are glasse, the Rx is filled the same since it's a "drs' prescription", just like we were a pharmacist, counting out so many tabs...it would be interesting to see what folks think about their price structures. we all have some pretty diverse ideas, and each of us is "right", so long as it works. Eyewear, properly rx's and properly fit is a great consumer value. I don't understand why most folks don't have more than one pair, they'll say it's because they cost so much, but they have an "extra" $20K car, they have four tv's, etc. it's just their priorities. when they break or lose them, they can just go down and have some "made in an hour", except it won't be what they lost, and it won't be cheap, and they know they should have had some sort of backup...but they're so expensive? so, what else do consumers have "custom made", that they need to be measured to find the right power, the right fit, where it's something they wear every day (generally) with every thing they wear; some actually don't care what they look like in them, they're just to "see with"...so, what if I know what Jo charges for SRC, or Crizal, or rimless grooving, or if it matters iota if you know what I charge? for many clients' money is NOT the only factor in their patronage! surprising that folks pay as much as they do these days, isn't it?, but there are so many horror stories of misleading sales, horrilble fits, hour's turned to weeks, so what's the big secrets? spill the beans, we want to know!

  14. #14
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    I have to agree with both Jo and Texas. Jo brings a valid point as to say that this is an open forum and any 'Joe' could grab information that may not be relevent to his particular market place and then it could spread into public demise. The offset is what Texas is implying: What one shop charges on one coast may or may not be the same on the other, therefore discussion on an open forum would be mute. Now to punch in my own opinion on the entire subject; if 'Joe' wants to know prices, or who is cheaper and so on, he can jump on the web and search for key words like "eyeglasses". Here he could come up with www.39dollareyeglasses,com. or 1800contacts, Vision direct, Frames direct, etc. So why would he have a pair made 'in about an hour" and pay close to three times as much?
    We really do not have the total secrecy as we would like to believe in our industry of choice, we are as delussional as the consumer if we believe that.

    :cheers:

    Cowboy

  15. #15
    Master OptiBoarder Texas Ranger's Avatar
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    One of the things that I truly enjoy about our industry is the diversity of the field. Look, Jo has certainly valid points, and I think unreasonable to discuss "mark-up" on the forum. we have some "traditional" mark-ups. by comparison, my ex brother in law was in the "auto body" business; I was amazed to find that his markup on "materials" was higher than mine, and that he then charged $40/hour for the "labor" to do the job, and here we have to get the "labor" out of less mark-up? makes you want to go work on cars? not likely... some folks feel that "profit" is a dirty word, well it's not. there are a great many things that go into producing and marketable product or service, and the "materail costs" are just a part of it. anything beyond "ready-made" readers is "custom-made" to a doctor's RX, and that is open to some interpretation, and requires additional fitting measurements by educated, trained, and skilled personnel, opticians. As an independent, I have benefitted over the years by the high mark ups of major chains, who have much higher overhead factors, including whatever "offers" they are promoting. and most are corporations looking to work profitably enough to pay shareholders a dividend on their investments. So, I can always "underprice" them, and carry a great deal of product that they don't/won't. it's a "niche". There are clients that want instant gratification, the very lowest price, quality is not an issue, the minimum their insurance covers is fine, etc. then there are folks who want properly fit, quality eyewear, appreciate fine workmanship, and are patient while they are being fabricated. So, who would you rather deal with every day?

  16. #16
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    Texas Ranger
    $40 an hour for any labor is cheap! I base my repair work on $60 an hour.
    Drill out a screw, re-tap 10 minutes..10 bucks.
    Solder 15 minutes...15 bucks
    Restring rimlon 5 minutes...5 bucks
    Of course some take less time and some take longer.

  17. #17
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Jo,

    As you could tell from my (edited) reply, I fully agree with you.

    Good move.

    Johns

  18. #18
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Charges ................................

    CME4SPECS said:

    $40 an hour for any labor is cheap! I base my repair work on $60 an hour.
    This sounds reasonable. My service station around the corner does excellent repair work and charges me and everybody else $ 60.00 for labour plus parts

    When something special pops up they tell me to better go to the dealer, who then charges $ 75.00 per hour [/B]plus parts.
    (I have paid $ 70.00 for a toggle switch plus 15 minutes of labour, and so have probably all of you)

    Who then in this crazy world of ours should not let an optician or an optometrist office charge a rate that is similar to a car mechanic?

    All of you have a price factor for the sale of your frames as well as for the lenses. The combination of the two transfers into your final selling price to your customer or patient.

    As this thread had been started on add on cost you proceed as Texas Ranger has said he's doing for repairs, you charge the add ons according to time and materials used according to an hourly rate established for your own work, or the one of your technicians

    This is a way that anyone patient/client/customer will understand because it is part of their normal life.

    If you do add ons in house you charge your labour plus material and if you have them done at your laboratory you will have to pay them first the labour cost plus material and then add your profit margin to pass it on to the customer

  19. #19
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    and while your figuring your labor cost.....

    don't forget your auto mechanic charges $60 per hour......OR any part of an hour. That repair job for which you get $10.00 should actually be 60.00 plus parts. Why is it that customers gladly pay their car mechanic yet balk at their optician?
    "Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter varmint's Avatar
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    Harry, it's because we made them think that way. Free adjustments for life no matter where you purchased them, free screw\nosepad, etc. replacements. The 2 for one chains hire min wage employee's who don't know how to fit or even restring a nylon, so they send them down the road to us independents and the consumer expects us to do it for free.
    We have trained the public to think our services and expertise have no value.

  21. #21
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    Cure the problem .....................

    varmint said:
    Harry, it's because we made them think that way.

    Free adjustments for life no matter where you purchased them, free screw\nosepad, etc. replacements.

    We have trained the public to think our services and expertise have no value.
    So now cure the problem: .............

    Give a free adjustment, that has been done for a hundred years all over the world.

    When parts and labour is involved un-train the public by at least charging the ones that come with jobs from your competition.

  22. #22
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter varmint's Avatar
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    I absolutely do Chris. Most people are very receptive to paying a small fee to have their eyewear properly fit when they didn't buy them from me. Only a few are not willing to pay, so I let them go to the discounters down the road who usually tell them "We don't have the tools for that". And if they do attempt to fit them they don't know how. The one's not willing to compensate me for the time I spend fixing them correctly are not worth my time either. I just had one man come in with a broken spring hinge and several frames he bought for 50 cents at the thrift store asking me to switch temples. When I told him it would be a couple dollars to do it, he walked. I'll raise the fee when he returns with the springs off and can't put them on himself.
    This subject was touched upon by Michael DeSanto at a seminar I recently attended, and he did an excellent job explaining the value of our services.

  23. #23
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    varmint said:

    .............................................And if they do attempt to fit them they don't know how.

    Only a few are not willing to pay, so I let them go to the discounters down the road who usually tell them "We don't have the tools for that".
    Varmint,

    If your statement is a fact, is it not time to regulate this profession? In case it would be regulated then the regulating body should take action.

    If people are able to sell glasses according to a medical prescription and then can not fit a pair of glasses properly so that the patient is comfortable and can see properly, they should be prevented from doing so.

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    I seem to remember a thread a while back where some people said they charged for adjustments, or nosepads, or whatever, and then other posters got on their case about not caring about your "customers", or trying to nickel and dime the public, and put forth lofty ideals about serving the public by providing free this or that.

    Our view is, if somebody wants a product or service from us, they will pay for that product or service. The only exception is we give free adjustments to patients who purchased their glasses from us. However, if the person is a patient, but got their glasses elsewhere, and comes to us for adjustment, they will pay. We don't understand why anyone gives products or services away. Not to mention that if patient saw fit to go elsewhere for their glasses, why should we do the fitting for free that the other place neglected to do or did improperly.

  25. #25
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter varmint's Avatar
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    Paw,
    that was me that started that thread, I posted a pic of a sign I made posting the fees, and I have found charging for the services has been very positively received, both by the patients and myself. I overhear Pt's talking while they wait and have heard several say, "they should charge for that".

    Chris,
    I completely agree these places shouldn't be permitted to hire unqualified people, but the sad fact is the state regulating board does not have strong enough standards for licensing opticians. Our state law requires each office to have 1 state licensed optician per office on duty full time, and all the rest of the employee's can be anybody. There doesn't have to be a licensed optician on duty all the time the store is open. I just remade a pair of glasses today for a pt who recently purchased a pair at one of these places and the PD was off 12 mm. They couldn't diagnose why he had a problem. They receive hundreds of pairs from their lab each day and don't even check the Rx for accuracy before dispensing. That's a direct violation of board rules, but the board does not do any investigations or checking to be sure offices are in compliance with their rules unless a patient makes a written complaint. Unfortunately, most patients don't expect any better service or quality from these places and they rarely complain to the board. I have a thrift store next to my office who gets old eyeglasses donated from estates and they put them in an easter basket by the register and charge 50 cents a pair. Patients go in and try them on like they would with drugstore readers and drive off wearing them. I notified the board and they said if a pt doesn't complain, we can't investigate. So as long as you don't have any complaint, you can go ahead and dispense Rx eyewear without a license.

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