Distortion in Progressives-HELP

[newalice]

What are your opinions of Naturals, Ormex, Image,or Adaptor progressive lenses? I have worn Adapter in the past. However they distort the shapes of things so bad, the rectangle test reading card would become a trapezoid (narrow at the top - wide at the bottom. The techs said they have never heard of such. I should just get used to it. I never have and this is important since I draw and paint. Do you all know what could cause this problem? Which of the above lenses have the least amount of distortion? Please Help

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Newalice
Tring to see clearely

[price]

It appears that you need an adjustment done on your eyeglasses. Over the years I have noticed that zeiss progressive lenses have less distortion in their lens design.

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donald d price

[mullo]

I agree about the adjustment. Try some faceform,pantoscopic tilt,check vertex distance and PD. I have had few problems
with any of the brands you are asking about.
I hear the new Essilor Panamic lens is the widest field of view on the market but it is only hear say as I have not dealt with the lens yet. Do try the adjustments though as it doesn't sound like lens design problems or adaptation, more like induced prism...Mullo

[Jackie L]

We have had great results with the Panamic. It is a softer design and the new presbyope has little or no difficulty with it. The other PAL'S you mentioned are from yesteryear and although were great designs in their day, are harder designs. Just my opinion and hope this is helpful.

Jackie O

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Still a Maina for now

[Joann Raytar]

We've had good results with Panamic also. I have to say ditto on the adjustment advice.

You are an artist; how far away is the material you are working on? Is your work space at desk height or higher? Is your work area wide? You may be asking to get too much out of one pair of glasses. Have you considered lenses just for tasks like painting?

[John R]

Originally posted by newalice:
However they distort the shapes of things so bad, the rectangle test reading card would become a trapezoid (narrow at the top - wide at the bottom. The techs said they have never heard of such.

I think its time to move to a new supplier as this is a very well known fact that varifocals distort straight lines. Guess they have been set to high so you are looking more through the add portion than you should.



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Every day a grind
Every week a bind
www.iooi.co.uk

[Joann Raytar]

The PD's could also be off and she could be catching the edge of the channel.

[HenryB]

I have a guy who works in my lab who has tried most progressives over the years and has never been able to wear a single one. Recently we whipped him up a pair of the new AO "b'active" lens and he loves it, he told me that it is the most like a single vision lens that he has worn, very little distortion.

I am curious if anyone else has any opinions of this lens? If so, shoot.....

[Specs]

Of your limited list, the Natural is the better choice, but not my choice.
I would go with the Hoya Hoyalux GP Wide or the Varilux Panamic. Proper measuring and fabrication to those measurements is the key with any progressive lens.

[Jim G]

Alice, your perceptions are real. All lens systems result in distortions away from the center of the lens--multiplied by higher powers. You didn't note the power of your prescription nor if you had any astigmatism...both significant factors in trying to determine the best lens for you.

Just a moment to identify/differentiate the lenses you note. Adaptar was the first of what we term "soft-progressives" (and, a 3rd generation progressive design). Natural and Image would be considered 2nd gen. soft designs (4th gen. progressive design). Ormex is a brand term noting a plastic material and not a progressive design.

Progressive lenses work by changing the curves on the front of the lens to change the power. Possibly you could visualize a slab of dough; as you push the dough around to change the power, you are left with transition zones (hills, valleys) where the power has changed. Older "hard" designs had fairly distinct changes. Newer "soft" designs spread out the changes over greater areas of the lens. Because they are more gradual, we are less apt to notice the change DURING CASUAL VIEWING. That, obviously is not your situation.

Having said that, a harder design (Sola VIP, Gradal HD, Essilor Super No Line) will typically have less distortion in the distance than a newer soft designs. The intermediate and reading areas likewise will have less distortion BUT will exhibit definite areas of change occasionally resulting in dizzyness and or a swimming effect by users because of the noticeable change in powers.

Several folks have recomended the Panamic or Zeiss TOP. These are excellent lenses utilizing a 5th generation "soft" design but all exhibit peripheral distortion. Occupational progressive lenses (Access--which I'm wearing as I type, Zeiss RD, Rodenstock Office, etc.), by nature of their designs, likewise push power around the lens resulting in peripheral distortion. However, because they typically are of lower powers (for we myopes), the distortions are correspondingly lower.

Recommendations? As noted above, a good fit is mandatory. Then, if you wish to stay with a progressive, a harder design may be the answer. While detectable, your brain will easily adjust to the perepheral distortions of a softer design and provide more natural casual vision. If you do not require the multiple powers, possible a single vision lens utilizing an "aspheric" design to minimize/eliminate the "trapazoid" you note.

Bottom line, just because you note the distortion, is it really a problem?

[John R]

Originally posted by HenryB:
Recently we whipped him up a pair of the new AO "b'active" lens and he loves it.

Glad to hear that as we have just stocked up with then as UK Optical are now pushing them over here.
Will be interesting to see how well they sell in an already overcrowded progresive market.

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Every day a grind
Every week a bind
www.iooi.co.uk

[newalice]

First I must thank you all for the time you gave to my questions. You are all very thoughtful. Wish I could come to your labs.
My RX reads:
SPHERE CYLINDER AXIS
D.V.{R.E. +1.00 -0.50 090
{L.E. +0.75 -0.75 090

ADD R.E. +2.50
L.E. +2.50

What are the AO b'actives and how do I ask for them. I did try and find someone that sold Hoya and Sears said they could special order them but they would cost $500 over my insurance payment(about $200). I don't mind going $200>$250 over.

Most of my painting is done at desk level. Was beginning to think I needed the computer or desk kind of lenses, however I do have to look up at the subject matter a lot. I know I sound pretty pathetic here. I am just so frustrated. Today I talked to a tech that told me he was sure I would be happy with the Natural he said it is far better than Varalux Comfort. I asked about the Panamic and he said it was just a new gimmic. That the Natural was fine. Ho-Hum

[This message has been edited by newalice (edited 03-12-2001).]

[sgcuba]

For $700 I will fly you here and sell you any progressive you heart desires and and still make money. Go to someone that knows whats what. Sears isnt the place...

[Joann Raytar]

$500 over your insurance??? Sgcuba is right. For $700 come on over and I will fit you with two pairs for that amount. I have worn Essilor Naturals and didn't have a problem with them; however, I may not have the same fitting needs that you do. Because of your painting, you need to find someone who can fit you well. Naturals and Panamics are both made by the same company but the Panamic is a better lens. It is like comparing a Ford Taurus to a Ford Crown Victoria; both are nice cars but the Crown Vic. has more room and better features.

The sales person is trying to talk you into the stock lens. They are thinking about what will make their life easier not your life better. Even LensCrafters will get a Comfort for you and only at $75 over the cost of a regular progressive. I believe that no matter where you go you will end up waiting for the lens to be ordered for you. If you haven't bought anything yet, shop around. If it is an insurance issue perhaps you just need to go to a different Sears or find out if you can go to a different store entirely on your plan.

[This message has been edited by Jo (edited 03-12-2001).]

[Alan W]

Newalice
You certainly have some pretty serious opinions from colleagues. I'm afraid I don't feel quite so comfortable opining. I'm a Naturals wearer. It's a great lens. When it's out of adjustment I get everything you described. You really need to hook up with a real quality optician and Sears is like looking for a needle in a hay stack. So, go to an independent. I will, however, strongly advise you to add specialty progressives to your cache. Outlook, Access, Tecnika are made for "computer applications." However, if you don't say anything to the lenses they won't know they are serving an artist! And, I know by having hung dozens of pairs of them on people with special needs, they will make you a happy camper. I believe in the KISS principle. Works for me. Happy whatever holiday is coming up!

[newalice]

All of the techs I have talked to I have told them I paint and that I wanted the latest, best, premium lenses. They(3) have all been at various Pearle Vision centers.
Sears was the only place on the phone that told me they could order Hoya(many of you seem to like them).
Please don't be afraid to give me an opinion I value your opinions. I just want to see things as they are. I know I can't use the the edges of the glasses don' even try after all these years. Holding my head steady I have moved my glasses up and down on my face and I can see the shapes of things change. This is with an old pair of glasses. You all seem to be right just get the right fit. What should I tell them so they know what I am talking about.

[This message has been edited by newalice (edited 03-12-2001).]

[John R]

Well if you are only looking at a desk and then into the distance why not try a pair of exec bifocals rather than varifocals or even if your distance vision is clear enough (do you wear glasses all the time ?) a pair of half eye s/v.

[Homer]

Talk about "in the box" thinking or "circlular" reasoning! Are all opticians pleagued with the disease?

All replys, while presenting some good, fundamental advice and comments, assumed that there is one person and one Rx and so that equals one pair of glasses. How dumb and blind can we get?

People in this hemisphere don't even drive just one automobile, or have one suit and god only knows how many pair of shoes! Why in the name of good business would knowledgable opticians think that people should have only one pair of glasses???

This painter and computer operator should have one of the new generation progressives like the RD, Access, Office, P and possibly others. Nearly every presbyope could benefit greatly from a task specific pair. And another for bike ridding not to speak of various sun and sportswear options.

Imagine going on a hike in your dancing shoes or running a marathon in your office shoes. That's what we as opticians are asking people to do if we continually ask this stupid question of which progressive is best.

As far as I am concderned, they are all great and can be used at different times for different purposes.

This b'active sounds great from an article I just read in Visioncare product News. I can't wait to find out who will benefit most from it.

As knowledgeable, educated and experienced opticians, I'm afraid we need to be retrained to offer the whole meneu of products to our patients (some say customers; others consumers) through a discovery process rather than looking at the Rx and proudly saying, "I know what's best for you"

Now I said it and I feel better.

All Ya'll have a great day

[HenryB]

Alice,

Any eyecare provider who deals with SOLA (I guess you could say they are the parent company of AO, who makes it) lenses should be able to hook you up with them. Keep in mind that my previous comment about this lens was my only experience with it so far....but the experience the gentleman in my lab had with the b'active was exactly what the manufacturer claims about it.

[John R]

Yep having heard a bit more about the b-active it would appear to be the lens for folks who have never got on with other progresives. More like a single vision with a blob for an add was the expression i heard :D

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Every day a grind
Every week a bind
www.iooi.co.uk

[Texas Ranger]

newalice, for what I gather in the thread, you are an eyewear consumer looking for a vision solution to your problem, most noteably paiting. first the pal designs mentioned are about a decade old technology, which is what cole vision markets in their sears,pearle,etc, retail stores. lens designers such as Varilux(who invented pals in 1952),zeiss, hoya and rodenstock are not likely to be marketing their fine designs in cole stores. for your insurance benefit's $200, you could get a varilux panamic, and be thrilled to death! Add crizal ar coating and you'd be even more pleased. but the painting problem would be best solved with a seperate lens that would be a correction 0.75 less than your full reading power as the main lens rx, with a 0.75 add in a small bifocal, then your wouldn't have to deal with any distortions in your painting work area, this is great for computer users also.

[Homer]

Hey Al, What's a pal? Is that someone NewAlice can take to lunch or home to meet her mother?

Hey Al, What's with the +.75? You aren't prescribing on the web are you?

Hey Al, You are right about the older generation progressive addition lenses but why would you prescrib older technology bifocals for the painter that works at various distances and there are so very many new technology lenses out there for this very purpose.

Just a little friendly head butting, Al ;-)

[Texas Ranger]

Homer, I should have said (P)rogressive
(A)ddition (L)ens: P.A.L. pal. i.e. "no-line", the idea of the .75 add is sound and is generally the concept of the Varilux readale (no longer available), the Zeiss RD, etc. but a ft-28 also works fine, just less expensive, as a seperate, specialty lens,do them all the time for hackers; they love them. Sometimes use the Nikoneyes "pal" for this since the cost of their "low add" pal is really reasonable. Either way, a second pair for just painting would work well for her, and definitely panamics with crizal for her regular glasses.

[newalice]

Do I have a difficult Rx. ?

[Homer]

Absolutely not, Alice. It is just us difficult opticians jostling each other about the best way to help you. It's kind like reading somebodyelse's mail here at times.

There are many good way to make your prescription work well for you. The important thing is to obtain the services of an optician that you can trust and that listens to your needs. Too often there customers are "sold" the latest technology just because it is the latest technology or because they get a commission on that product this week.

You might want to copy some of the more helpful post and take them to your optician and let him / her explain some of the benefits of the products mentioned.

Now if you want to drive to a very scenic spot in Colorado ..... no, that probably not a good idea either.

Good luck. Hope you have enjoyed the fun we had with your question.