Definity Lenses

**Ryan** · 03-04-2004, 06:20 PM

We recently started selling the J&J Definity lens and so far, the patients love it. We have sold about 25 pairs and the response has been great. I was curious if anyone else is having good success with these, and what is the quality of the lab? We so far have had some problems with the quality. We mostly do uncuts, but drill mounts we send in. We have had lenses with axis off, rx entry error, nolines 'twisted' in frame (not straight along the 180), complete job come in with no ar when it was marked on rx, etc. All of this in only about 3-4 weeks.:finger: Just wanted some feedback on others who sell this lens. Thanks alot;)

**Rophod** · 03-05-2004, 02:10 PM

I have not started selling this lens. Not many labs deal with it. The cost is significantly higher than even Varilux or Rodenstock lenses. What do you charge for them? I have heard only good things about them in articles but have not had any experience with them. Seems you patients love them.

Just a note. Since we have started really educating our patients and selling higher end materials and lens treatments we have had more patients tell us they LOVE their glasses with enthusiasm. I LOVE it.

**mrba** · 03-05-2004, 09:13 PM

Heres a thought. Do we want to see J and J do to the progressive market what they did to the contact lens market?

Just a thought...
mrba

**PAkev** · 03-06-2004, 07:40 PM

I have sold several pair of Definity Lenses since they became available in Aug. 2003 and have had NO non adapts or unsatisfied patients.

Indeed they are pricier than conventional premium PAL designs. However we present it as a "Super Premium" lens and when the patient is educated of the free form technology, their extra cost is justified easier.

On the thumbs down side, their turn around has been running around two weeks since they are exclusively distributed through J&J's own lab.

I believe the future will deliver more players in the free form lens design market place. Hopefully this will also enable more labs to become distribution channels to provide better turnaround and make pricing more competitive.

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Kevin

**mrba** · 03-07-2004, 12:44 AM

I don't think the standard of a lens should be non adapts. Non adapts are so rare in this day and age if the fitter is competant and prepares the wearer for what they are getting into.

And of course any free form is going to be superior to any molded design... Thats a no brainer.

**karen** · 03-07-2004, 10:14 AM

Rophod said:
. Not many labs deal with it.

I was under the impression that no labs deal with it-that you have to go directly to J & J. Which is why I will fervently pray that it does nt become successful...

**Pete Hanlin** · 03-08-2004, 12:20 PM

I don't think the standard of a lens should be non adapts. Non adapts are so rare in this day and age if the fitter is competant and prepares the wearer for what they are getting into.

And of course any free form is going to be superior to any molded design... Thats a no brainer.

I fervently agree with the first point. Even an average PAL design will have very few non-adapts these days (with the possible exception of some of the harder "short corridor" designs). Today, PAL technology has moved to solving other problems inherent with PALs- but non-adapts have been relatively "conquered."

Regarding the second comment, "freeform" is simply the process used to create a PAL. You can use freeform to create any kind of PAL you want as long as you have the correct datapoints. In other words, a SOLA VIP can be made with a freeform process- it doesn't make the design any better or worse.

Freeform gives the designer the potential to create designs with greater customization. However, it is also going to be a tool that helps laboratories reduce their inventories- this aspect will have nothing to do with design. SOLAOne, for example, is created with freeform in 1.67 (to reduce inventory) but is molded in other materials.

Regarding Definity, I'm glad you are having success with it. However, based on an analysis of the design, there is no particular reason to dispense this lens over any other modern PAL. Nothing about the design is particularly new or revolutionary. In fact, it is quite similar to the Sola XL Gold, which also featured a wide intermediate and low levels of cylinder.

**mrba** · 03-08-2004, 12:29 PM

Pete makes a good point. Freeform can make any lens actually. However, when I think of the first free form lenses I am thinking of Zeiss Gradal Individual, Shamir Autograph etc.

No question that these are desighned atoric, and actually even more advanced curve combinations than that, hence someone with a lot of cylinder doesn't suffer from the peripheral distortion all molded progressives are known for.

They take longer and are more expensive, but isn't annything worth having?

**PAkev** · 03-08-2004, 02:22 PM

Aside from the technical dialogue exchanged, there are indeed many other marketing reasons compelling patients to purchase Definity lenses.

1. It is nice for a change to have patients coming in asking for or about a specific product. Although media advertising is no guarantee of quality, it has already developed their interest in recognizing good performance from their eyewear.

2. When something is presented as new technology, folks want to know what benefit the new technology affords them. Therefore, they are much more attentive to your explanation of free form technology than options such as AR,Transition, High Index, etc. as their information is yet limited. This puts more value on an opticians professional understanding of industry changes to also make them look like less of a salesman.

3. We find when folks attach a consumer trusted brand name such as J&J, they believe this is a right choice in the interest of their vision.

**mrba** · 03-08-2004, 02:39 PM

Just remeber that when a patient comes in asking for a specific brand.... You are still the optician!:hammer:

**Pete Hanlin** · 03-08-2004, 02:40 PM

Aside from the technical dialogue exchanged, there are indeed many other marketing reasons compelling patients to purchase Definity lenses.
I definitely agree with you (pun definitely intended)... The dual ADD design is a really nifty marketing tool, freeform is an exciting new technology, and a name like J&J does usually inspire trust. Therefore, I'm sure the product is an easy sell.

This will be interesting, because up until now Varilux has been the only PAL to make a serious attempt to create consumer awareness (since we are such a push industry, marketing wise, there isn't a lot of pull advertising).

My hope is simply to define what freeform technology really is, so that dispensers can be knowledgeable when hearing about "freeform" lenses. mrba makes a good point, there are freeform designs out there which are also customized. Customization is something made possible by freeform. I believe the Seiko Super Proceed Internal One was the first such lens on the market back in 1997 or 1998. Varilux Ipseo will be hitting test markets across the US this year.