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Thread: New ABO Master Exam

  1. #26
    OptiBoardaholic OptiBoard Silver Supporter Alvaro Cordova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald
    I agree with Darrell that the idea of the paper is good, but if they are designed to compete on par with other disciplines, then those who do the writing need to be able to at least adequately write. Again, content is usually good (even better than good in some cases) but the papers need work.And we do no need folks with NO academic background designing and grading these kinds of things. We need to begin to grow a better educated crop of professionals for the future beginning with an adequate education.
    You've hit the nail on the head.

  2. #27
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    I could agree with a separate test on business in opticianry. I don't think it is a absolutely necesary part to the masters test but it is relevant in many ways. It is true that most opticiansdon't own their own business, but I would venture to say most opticians also don't have their masters. Make the business part separate and a requirement alog with a less watered down version of the test and you give more credibility to the whole process.
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  3. #28
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    Abom

    I agree with Darryl, I took the old test and passed. I liked the technical aspect of it, which we need more of in our business. Eliminate the business questions and focus on optics.
    Bill MacGillivray ABOM
    Director of Optical Operations
    Eyehealth Northwest

  4. #29
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    Bill Mac:

    Pure Blastemy! You knows that keeping inventories, and selling are the only thing that's important to todays optician. The very idea that an optician should have some knowledge of optics, frames, repair and math is totally hippocritical.
    You go wash you mouth out with soap and appologise right away!

    Chip

  5. #30
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    I take no issue with testing opticians on their ability to manage inventory and sell eyewear, although these topics are often subjective and probably outside the scope of a certification body for dispensing eyeglasses (as opposed to managing a dispensary). However, I do take issue with asking such questions on a test described as an examination for the "Master in Ophthalmic Optics" certification.
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  6. #31
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    My first post on optiboard! Interesting discussion on your master optician examination. I'm from Melbourne Australia and am in the middle of trying to develop an accreditation program for dispensing opticians. As of next year no Australian state will have government regulation of optical dispensing and we are on a crusade to try and self regulate. Unfortunately the standard of schooing for dispensing opticians has dropped considerably over the past ten years, and this is also our attempt to try and raise the bar again. We have come up with a plan to introduce a three level system of accreditation culminating in a master optician certification which will take six years industry experience to achieve. My question is this: How would I be able to get my hands on a copy of one of your original master optician examination papers? I'm really interested to see the content and perhaps align it somewhat with yours. Also, we're not interested in any management crap in our examination either. My view is if you want to learn management, go to management school!

  7. #32
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murray O'Brien View Post
    My first post on optiboard! Interesting discussion on your master optician examination. I'm from Melbourne Australia and am in the middle of trying to develop an accreditation program for dispensing opticians. As of next year no Australian state will have government regulation of optical dispensing and we are on a crusade to try and self regulate. Unfortunately the standard of schooing for dispensing opticians has dropped considerably over the past ten years, and this is also our attempt to try and raise the bar again. We have come up with a plan to introduce a three level system of accreditation culminating in a master optician certification which will take six years industry experience to achieve. My question is this: How would I be able to get my hands on a copy of one of your original master optician examination papers? I'm really interested to see the content and perhaps align it somewhat with yours. Also, we're not interested in any management crap in our examination either. My view is if you want to learn management, go to management school!
    You will not get a copy of the test, it's just never going to happen as this would invalidate any further test. But you can get information as to which subjects are on the tests.

    Basic Test - http://www.abo-ncle.org/basiccertifi...pecifications/

    Advanced Test - http://www.abo-ncle.org/advancedcert...ncedtestspecs/

    Master Paper (with examples) - http://www.abo-ncle.org/abomastersprogram/

    Whatever everyone says the portion on inventory management is relevant, an opticians with these certifications is supposed to be at the top of his/her game. The school soffer these subjects and many practices expect thes tasks of their optical employees so it's relevent. I am sure everyone would love to believe that the test was the hardest when they took it, bu that is more than likely not the case, keep in mind we grow everyday in this profession especially those that seek out advancement, so it would be more likely that those that took it years ago now consider the test easy, but at the time it was a tough one. You know what they say about hind sight.

    If you want study material for the basic test try this link, it even has a few questions that are similar to those on the test.

    http://onlineopticianry.com/wordpress/?p=176
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  8. #33
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    Thank you for the links and comment.

  9. #34
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    Whatever everyone says the portion on inventory management is relevant, an opticians with these certifications is supposed to be at the top of his/her game.
    Harry, I respectfully disagree: 1) The Master in Ophthalmic Optics certification was intended as a test of expertise in ophthalmic optics, lenses, and dispensing, as implied by the title, not as a test of whether a given optician is at the top of his or her game, 2) questions pertaining to the management of a dispensary are relevant only to the dispensary manager, and there are a heck of a lot more opticians out there who aren't dispensary managers, and 3) since the number of questions on the exam has not increased, expanding the scope of the exam in this manner serves to water the test down.
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  10. #35
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    How would I be able to get my hands on a copy of one of your original master optician examination papers? I'm really interested to see the content and perhaps align it somewhat with yours.
    Murray, for the level of expertise that you envision for your "Master" certification, I would encourage you to contact the Association of British Dispensing Opticians. They should be willing to provide your organization with some of their tests. Their examinations are considerably more challenging and technical in nature than the current ABO Master examination offered in the US.
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  11. #36
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    Consider this, Harry.

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryChiling View Post
    You will not get a copy of the test, it's just never going to happen as this would invalidate any further test. But you can get information as to which subjects are on the tests.

    Basic Test - http://www.abo-ncle.org/basiccertifi...pecifications/

    Advanced Test - http://www.abo-ncle.org/advancedcert...ncedtestspecs/

    Master Paper (with examples) - http://www.abo-ncle.org/abomastersprogram/

    Whatever everyone says the portion on inventory management is relevant, an opticians with these certifications is supposed to be at the top of his/her game. The school soffer these subjects and many practices expect thes tasks of their optical employees so it's relevent. I am sure everyone would love to believe that the test was the hardest when they took it, bu that is more than likely not the case, keep in mind we grow everyday in this profession especially those that seek out advancement, so it would be more likely that those that took it years ago now consider the test easy, but at the time it was a tough one. You know what they say about hind sight.

    If you want study material for the basic test try this link, it even has a few questions that are similar to those on the test.

    http://onlineopticianry.com/wordpress/?p=176
    We respectfully have to disagree on this one, my friend. The schools do teach management courses, but they are seperate courses. For example, we do not teach management topics in Opthalmic Optics 1 or 2, but in management class. The Masters exam is entitled Master of Ophthalmic Optics. What some may think is needed is a seperate certification in management? ABO/NCLE would love it, but in my mind, an actual education in the subject area would be the best route versus some additional certification. We have enough of those already! The ABO-AC is very difficult right now, as evidenced by a very small pass rate, so I am not saying it was better when I took it in the stone ages. I am saying that in those days it measured knowledge of optics. I think we need to either re-title it, or the Master of Ophthalmic Optics certificate should only focus on what it was designed to measure, optics. We also must improve the process. Some of the papers are excellent content-wise, but the folks who "write" them need to be able to write effectively compared to other disciplines if we are to ever gain the respect we need and deserve. Just food for thought.

  12. #37
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    The trends seem to indicate that the profession is headed in the opposite direction, business will be a more valuable skill in the future of our profession than optics. It would be wise to hedge bets and include both in any certification. I could agree that the original test should be kept in it's entirety and busines added but to loose the business element would not be a wise move.

    I am sure we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this suject, but I love hearing from both Darryl and Dr McDonald, you keep me grounded. ;)
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  13. #38
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    The trends seem to indicate that the profession is headed in the opposite direction, business will be a more valuable skill in the future of our profession than optics.
    Do you really think so? In my experience, there are fewer and fewer optical dispensaries that are actually owned by opticians. Corporate-owned optical dispensaries have become increasingly accessible to eyewear consumers and many ophthalmologists have begun investing in their own dispensaries to capture that profit center.

    In any case, I think both Warren and I believe that business management principles are important, at least to some opticians, but that business management principles are not important on a test of ophthalmic optics knowledge.
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  14. #39
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl Meister View Post
    Do you really think so? In my experience, there are fewer and fewer optical dispensaries that are actually owned by opticians. Corporate-owned optical dispensaries have become increasingly accessible to eyewear consumers and many ophthalmologists have begun investing in their own dispensaries to capture that profit center.

    In any case, I think both Warren and I believe that business management principles are important, at least to some opticians, but that business management principles are not important on a test of ophthalmic optics knowledge.
    Well if you think an opticians only metric is a diopter then I would agree, but in this world of capture rates and year over year growth, performance is measured by the dollar.
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  15. #40
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    Well if you think an opticians only metric is a diopter then I would agree, but in this world of capture rates and year over year growth, performance is measured by the dollar.
    But we are discussing a test on "How to be a Master of Ophthalmic Optics," not a test on "How to Be a Financially Successful Optician." Ophthalmic optics has very little to do with profit margins and revenue.

    High sales has nothing to do with your skills as a competent dispenser, only your skills as a competent sales person or business manager. And, frankly, not many people would consider an ABO certification (as opposed to say, an MBA) a meangingful indication of your ability to run a successful business.
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  16. #41
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    You know I'd just rather not disagree with you, your right.
    Last edited by HarryChiling; 09-03-2009 at 01:37 PM.
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  17. #42
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    Well, it's certainly a controversial topic, and many of us are passionate about our opinions on the matter. I don't know that my opinion is any better than yours, but at least this kind of open dialogue allows other OptiBoard members to see and consider both sides of the issue.
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  18. #43
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl Meister View Post
    Well, it's certainly a controversial topic, and many of us are passionate about our opinions on the matter.
    Not really I have been so much more relieved since I stopped caring. What difference does it make anyway we could argue all day and still never reach a consensus, but by argueing that the test is harder in the past then it is now, we take another opportunity for an optician to feel success. They'll never be as great as those that came before them, I am fortunate enough to know what a boob most can be that's knowledge enough for me.
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  19. #44
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    I'm not really arguing that the old test was harder necessarily. Since I never took the new exam, I could only speculate anyway. I just think that the test has now lost focus by including addititional content areas that are not relevant to ophthalmic optics. Nevertheless, I still believe that any optician who has demonstrated true dedication to his or her craft by successfully completing either the Master certification or the ABO Advanced certification should be commended, regardless of the specific content areas of the associated exams.
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

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    Darryl, thanks for your comment regarding the standard of the British test. From what I can deduce, it's becoming a bit of a "gold standard" throughout the world. As an example, I believe the Malaysians now take the British examination to gain registration there. Here in Australia, we all used to do the Guild of Dipensing Opticians diploma and examination, which I didn't realize at the time was the British standard. I will check in with the Brits and see if I can access something there.
    Anyway, it's an interesting discussion. We still do have a separate diploma in ophthalmic practice management available here. I don't think that we will be making management questions part of our test however. The thing that is obviously lacking here is knowledge of optics. I run a small fitting laboratory, and I must say the lack of knowledge of even so called "qualified" dispensers is astounding.
    The main driver of the lowered standard here is a Luxottica owned chain called OPSM. They are about 50% of the market and have enormous clout due to the fact that they take on so many dispensing trainees. They recently changed their educational provider to one which would dumb down the course, allow more students to graduate, thus providing the company with the government kick back for having got another dumb kid through the course. It's just about money here, nothing more.

  21. #46
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    I know that Dr. McDonald may disagree with me, but I don't think that its education that stands in the way of optician advancement.

    Rather, it's that age-old saw...money$!

    With wage level no where near what they must be for truly competant optician to remain an employee, the motivated ones simply move into positions of ownership or partnership in order to be rewarded at the level of their skill set.

    It's so sad when management/corporations make most of the profit on the backs of the truly dedicated.

    I think you could raise the bar on education of opticians, but there would not be a commensurate increase in the level of compensation. Therefore, knowing how to succeed in business is essential to those skilled opticians who want to remain in this industry.

    For the rest...I offer a heartfelt "thank you."

    Barry

  22. #47
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    I do disagree

    Barry, Barry,
    How do you know that education would not make a difference? The terminal degree for Opticians in the AAS or some form of it, which is the same for many technical fields. Unfortunatly in most states the schools are poorly attended. Most Opticians train now through what they call "apprenticeship" which is nothing more than on-the-job cheap labor. Little actual training occurs and these folks are left to train themselves. That dumbs us down with every new generation, and we no longer attract the best and brightest as we used to do. That said, Opticians still make a substantial salary in many states, including New York. An Optician in NC will make 40-50K, more than school teachers that require a bachelor's degree. How much can you pay someone with a high school education? Most Opticians now measure PDs and take seg heights and say thank you very much, quite a difficult professional task, wouldn't you agree? Now remember.....I said most. There are many competent folks on this very board like Darryl, and Harry and your yourself, Barry, but you are not the norm. Some on Optiboard complain with great trepidation about passing the dreaded ABO! That test is very basic, and in fact to prove it many years ago, we took a secretary with no experience who did not even wear glasses, and had her read some selccted material for a month. We got them to allow her to test and she made an 80! Someone adequately trained would pass that easily. We are judged by our lowest common denominator and the only way to improve that situation is through education to right the ship. Along with that education should come a commensurate increase in scope of practice. ODs did it. Nurses did it. Dental Hygenists did it. Why do we still argue a point like the need for education? Once we start moving in that right direction salaries will rise, just as they did for ODs. It is our only hope. I wish you all well, and while I know I will have absolutely no effect on Barry, I hope some will at least consider my points.
    Last edited by wmcdonald; 09-04-2009 at 08:05 AM.

  23. #48
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    Hi Guys:

    Warren and Darrel are hitting excellent points as usual. As many of you know I have developed, validated, and now administer an entry level practical examination for opticians seeking licensure in several states. The following are a few results from the last exam. The percentages listed indicate the number of candidates who could correctly answer this question.


    Measure prism thinning 48%
    Analyze the lens for unwanted vertical prism 44%
    Determine the add power for a standard bifocal 44%


    I feel these numbers correctly reflect the knowledge level of the average optician. While there are those who will argue that our field is well served by our current standards, test results reflect otherwise. Perhaps this explains why the ABO “advanced certification” has been so watered down. In my opinion, we need formal education, more in-depth optical knowledge, and higher entry standards.

    Roy
    Last edited by Roy R. Ferguson; 09-04-2009 at 12:26 PM.

  24. #49
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Good points again, Warren. It' just that between ny's inability to set higher standards for fear of cracking those fragile student eggs (or is it egos?), and my own parochial standards, the lowest common denominator and associated wage rules.

    It's simple: you either are for higher standards, or you are not. Enough of compromise to soothe those who think the standards ask too much.

    In the old days, NY had the toughest and fairest exam. It took four full days to complete. Compare that with 3 hrs today.

    If you really believe there's another way, I'm all ears!

    Barry

  25. #50
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    Existing Model

    The way to a better future (and that is the key, the future) can be readily found in the route ODs, Nurses, and others have taken. Educate, and then legislate. We will get absolutely nowhere without education. And I do not speak of these half-degrees.....I mean a legitimate, college education that covers the full spectrum of competencies an Optician may do, both now and in the future. The problem is, many of the leaders have no education and therefore do not support it. We MUST try to elect leaders who will begin to plan for the future, and make education a part of the plan. We are what we are currently, and the transformation will be slow. It took ODs 20 years of courses before they could use any pharmaceutical agents, but they achieved their goals. Now they have educated themselves and enacted laws that give them great freedom and latitude. If we begin now, we can develop a better prepared Optcian for the future. If we wait much longer, technology just may replace us. My career is close to the end.......I want things to be better for our colleagues of the future.

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