In-Office Lens Fabrication Systems

[LaurieC]

I need help in choosing an in-house lens fabrication system for a client. Any and all information on systems out there would be very helpful.

[Texas Ranger]

Laurie C ; you don't have a working knowledge of lens fabrication systems?, someone with less knowledge than you is asking you to set up a system for them?, just curious how things get done these days. But to help you out some; first, hopefully, don't consider lens "casting" systems, and unless you have someone "expert" doing it, don't do lens "surfacing", and if you have someone skilled, you might want to consider lens "finishing". then go with patternless/dry cut edging from National Optronics. and don't even think about processing glass! hope this helps.

[Jeff Trail]

Let me say right off, I am a wholesaler and do own a wholesale optical lab :) BUT I can let you in on some of the experience I have run into over the years. First there have been a ton of wafer and cast system and of course they all said "we solved the problems" and I seen them set and and fold many times leaving the opticians and OD's with a $20 grand paper weight.
Out of all of the systems I guess (if I had to make a choice) I would have to say "fast grind" .. it consists of a cylinder machine and the company gives you semi finished lens pre blocked and you finish in the cylinder powers with the blanks running.. the power is not real wide and the choice of lens is limited (specially in the PAL's) .. so be forewarned. .. the draw back? Well a lens hates to be run a long period of time on a cylinder machine and it will easily wave (due to heat) and if you do not up keep the machine you will start to have wondering optical centers.. so you really need to understand cylinder machines and be mechanical capabilities to keep it in good working order...
So the lesser of all evils..hmm I guess fast grind is it..I would go with the other post though and go with a finishing lab and get uncut work to save money.. untill the time comes you can make it profitable to install a full service lab.. the make smaller labs for retail spots that won't cost you a fortune...

Jeff "seen probably 10 "casting" companies fold in the last five years" Trail

[LaurieC]

Originally posted by Al:
Laurie C ; you don't have a working knowledge of lens fabrication systems?, someone with less knowledge than you is asking you to set up a system for them?, just curious how things get done these days. But to help you out some; first, hopefully, don't consider lens "casting" systems, and unless you have someone "expert" doing it, don't do lens "surfacing", and if you have someone skilled, you might want to consider lens "finishing". then go with patternless/dry cut edging from National Optronics. and don't even think about processing glass! hope this helps.

Hey Al, Thanks for the help but don't be such a critic without bachground. Yes, I have knowledge of lens fabricating. As a consultant, it is also my job to seek opinions and experiences beyond my own!

[Texas Ranger]

Sorry to be too critical, you didn't provide any background, just took the post at face value, you can't believe the extreme level of naivety of industry newcomers, or maybe you can; that's what your consulting is for,perhaps? I commend your flexibility and willingness to gather more knowledge, in order to better consult. so, again, forgive my criticism. Al.

[sgreen]

In office lens fab systems run from full surfacing to the "fast-grind" to "cast to RX". I have used full surfacing type labs on a regular basis, 20+ years, I have also tested the now defunct InnoTech casting system, for its time and what it could do it was a fair system for the time, you have to consider that it was, at the time a $10m company and was purchased by JnJ for 100+M, was it successful, you decide. I have, after 30 years in the lab/retail business, joined Optical Dynamics, this is the greatest technology I've seen in those 30 years, COLTS Testing Lab has issued two certifications to Optical Dynamics for Prescription Quality and one for their Photochromic performance. If you are looking for a system for in-office fab, you owe it to yourself to look at the Q2100 system.

[Ron]

I strongly agree. The system you need to check out is the one from Opical Dynamics. It does work and anyone can make lenses.

[Jim G]

First, the caveat. I am a wholesale lab. So there, I said it!

Inasmuch as you're a consultant, I'm sure you've already done this but I feel that it's really important to determine the objective of the potential user. What are they trying to accomplish? Save money? Provide better(?) service? Quality? How much room is available? How much is the client willing to invest? Both in real money and personnel.

Casting is viable for low volumes; probably not for high volume. Surfacing is viable for high(er) volumes; not low. Is the practice a Varilux/Precepta/Kodac/Hoyalux/ etc. user? Or a combination? Do they dispense much poly? 1.66? These aren't available in casting systems. What about AR (best done with a hardcoat on both sides)? Single vision and flat tops are probably cheaper to buy.

There are alternatives to wholesale labs but there is no one system "best" for everyone. A thorough and objective analysis of the business practices and objectives will (probably) lead you to the "best" decision...sure to change next year with the development of newer technology.

To tout casting/laminating/surfacing/uncut finishing etc. as the "solution" is unfair until the above (and many, many more questions) is answered.

[new_eyeguy_01]

Just speaking for Al, I don't feel he was being ugly about his post. it sounded as if you were mad at him for giving you an intelligent reply. He's right, This is a HUGE topic. Where do you start? It was a pretty bleak and open-ended question. :D

[Alan W]

Laurie
Optical Dynamics is proving itself to be well worth it. I have a few people familiar with it.
I have it on good word that a company in Anaheim, Ca will be releasing a desktop generator using YAG laser technology around years end. It will produce an accurate surface in half the time in half the space. It is water cooled and can handle about 15 surfaces an hour with a fining quality finish. It will not be sold as such, I'm told, but leased on a flat rate plus useage program. Personally, I think that will open up new opportunities. Perhaps, it might be a good idea to look into it before a major capital expense on obsolescence. I don't know about you, but when laser technology hits this industry, there will be a revolution. Optronics can't be argued with . . . Horizon is the standard. I am only now appreciating what lasers can do after a short stint in the development of opaque contact lens coloration technology. More on that later . . film at eleven.
PS As R & D and product development goes . . releasing new items is the same as "The Show Ain't Over Until The show Is Over!"

[LaurieC]

I really appreciate EVERYONE'S feedback on this topic, especially Al, who I was not mad at. I am usually deliberately vague when asking a question of this sort because I'm looking for gut reactions and opinions that run the gamut of experience from technology to ease of use to experience with tech support, etc. That said, now I need specific help and would so appreciate any assistance. Does anyone out there have direct knowledge and/or experience with Conception fron Zeiss or Opticast, formally Optical Molding Systems? Thanks in advance!

[Leo Hadley Jr]

I really appreciate EVERYONE'S feedback on this topic, especially Al, who I was not mad at. I am usually deliberately vague when asking a question of this sort because I'm looking for gut reactions and opinions that run the gamut of experience from technology to ease of use to experience with tech support, etc. That said, now I need specific help and would so appreciate any assistance. Does anyone out there have direct knowledge and/or experience with Conception fron Zeiss or Opticast, formally Optical Molding Systems? Thanks in advance!

I have used the opticast system and it works great!!!
i must say that i am really impressed and i worked with a few different systems.

[Chris Ryser]

After having been a money looser, investing ......................in the first casting system 1982-1983 I have followed the trend and the many companies trying to make it. Wonder..........why we dont hear nything from the many opticians that got burned with or by a moulding system.

Soemhow they all disapeared into thin fog over time and always a new one has popped again.

Ther is a lot more involved in proper lens casting than these companies try to make you believe. Curing cycles differ considerably with lens powers and thickness.

My advise is to check carefully into all and everything before investing and maybe loosing a bundle of money plus the frustration that goes along with it.

[DocInChina]

Hi Laurie,

Being an old hand in lens casting I can offer my opinion. The last system I used was from Optical Dynamics. I became fairly proficient at using it but there were definite problems. Among those problems were fishing out the air bubbles that ineveitably found their way in as the molds were filling. Also, higher powers (plus) had problems with waves and distortion. Also, there were problems having these lenses AR coated. Apparently the UV curing process and/or the hard coat being used were not AR friendly. Overall though, if cost, convenience and time are a primary factor I would still recommend this system.

Doc

[Chris Ryser]

It is a known factor that curing times change with the thickness and power of the lens.

Therefore in these systems you can not mix different power lenses and get a good result of properly cured finished lenses.

[DocInChina]

Re: Curing times

The Optical Dynamics system I had used cured one pair at a time. The cure time changed depending on the power being fabricated. Fortunately the unit is computerized and determined the cure time. I stand by my recommendation if cost per pair, convenience and time are a primary factor.

[Pete Hanlin]

Mostly just responding to say "Hi Laurie & Jim!!!" However, that said- what kind of production numbers is your client looking for per day, and is there a primary material or two? If traditional surfacing is an option, the best set up I've personally worked in involved a privately held four store chain of superopticals with one store set up with a tri-axial generator (in this case, the Gerber SGX- this was some time ago), and the other store's labs operating as "satellites."

Other than the casting system (ILC) set up in one of our Dallas labs, I've really not seen a casting system that I would want to rely on for consistent production. Given the proliferation of designs, materials, and lens options these days, however, unless you have a client who can tightly control what products will be available through his/her locations, a traditional surfacing system of some kind would be the best option that comes to mind.
Come to think on it, given the fact that several labs can get you work in one or two days (and ordering systems like VisionWeb streamline the ordering process), there are very few situations I can imagine where an in-office (or store) fabrication system makes much sense. Finishing yes, but not surfacing. Then again, your client may have a very special need.

Hope all is well, keep in touch my friend!

[Chris Ryser]

Hope all is well, keep in touch my friend!

And that is it, the master spoke...........................