Optician Deregulation

**Bob Rihl** · 01-11-2001, 02:45 AM

When I retired a few months ago, I decided to think only about boats, not Opticianry. But this Florida deregulation has the juices flowing.
What's happening in Florida will soon happen here in Georgia, and in all licensed states. Maybe there's still time to learn from the mistakes of my generation.
Our first, and biggest, mistake was to not require EVERY FITTER in a shop to have an Optician's license, not just the boss. When you go to get a haircut, every Barber needs a license, not just the shop owner. The public has gotten used to being fitted by amatuers and doesn't see what good it does to license the guy in the back room with the cash register.
Our second biggest mistake was our absolute refusal to accept academic credentials as a requirement for licensure. There is NO other health care profession that does not require some kind of a degree. Indeed, even those Barbers have to go to school. The public is not impressed by shadowy state examinations. They want to see an academic diploma on the wall, just like the one they all have.
Our third big mistake was our unwillingness to accept each other as professionals. I'm talking about reciprocity. This drove us apart and lead us far away from the national standards necessary for any profession to survive.
And do you know what each of these three, big mistakes have in common? Greed, that's what. We were all afraid that employees who were too educated and too mobile would cost us too much money. Now, we're about to lose the whole thing.
Big business is taking over a whole lot of industries, just like it is taking over ours, and we can't help that. But they have a lot harder time when they are dealing with a real profession.... people with degrees and national standing. At least when they do take over, the professionals are not replaced with unskilled teenagers. They still have high paying jobs. But we can ALL be replaced in a real short time the way things now stand.
And a fourth mistake. When MDs started dispensing, right about the time that their Medicare embursements got slashed, we all should have taken out full page ads calling attention to the opportunity for abuse and the lack of ethics. The MDs got kicked out of owning medical labs in a hurry. But we didn't. "We might offend the doctor." Well, we didn't have much to lose. You CAN fight city hall, you just have to do it as a group.
So get with it, young folks. Bring this business into the 21st Century. My generation never got it out of the 19th, and I was one of the Victorians.
lol,
Old (Seafaring) Bob

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There IS life after optical business!!!

**Roy R. Ferguson** · 01-11-2001, 07:50 AM

Our second biggest mistake was our absolute refusal to accept academic credentials as a requirement for licensure. There is NO other health care profession that does not require some kind of a degree. Indeed, even those Barbers have to go to school. The public is not impressed by shadowy state examinations. They want to see an academic diploma on the wall, just like the one they all have.

Hi Bob:

I thought you might be interested in the following quote from a 1992 Tennessee Dispensing Opticians Associations newsletter. "We received a letter from the opticians association of Michigan asking if we wished to support a resolution that they will be presenting at the OAA National Convention in June. The TDOA board of directors voted not to support this resolution."

As you remember, this was the OAA resolution calling for formal education of opticians.

**wmcdonald** · 01-11-2001, 02:22 PM

Dear Mr. Rihl,
I am encouraged to see your comments regarding education. It is important. I spent a great deal of time in a civic organization that gave awards for everything. The award presentations were often long and drawn out events that many in the audience found boring. But you know what, those that received the recognition thought it important and loved every minute. What does that have to do with Opticianry education? Well, my analogy is to point out that the only people who don't like education (or awards) are those that have none. They seem somewhat afraid that educated Opticians will take their jobs one day, or they will somehow get ahead of them.(I can see it now; someone is going to be offended by that. They have been doing what they do a long time, why change? It is not slam, but we must think of the future of the profession).
It is high time we change, before it is too late. I teach around the country regularly, and often those who speak the loudest about things and hold important offices within the profession can't even figure out the simplest optical formula. Asked about Prentice's Rule, they will often look in their pocket to see if they have one.
I hope that a few of the older leadership that cringe at the thought of educational standards will recognize soon, that we must advance or perish. It does not take a licensure requirement to measure a seg or take a PD, and most of the larger national organizations consider the highest grossing salesperson the best Optician. We must also get real about what we want to do. If all we are to be is an eyeglass salesperson, we don't really need a certification/license. I think we are more than that. Opticianry is a proud profession with roots in contact lenses and refraction, prosthetics and other medical devices that provide great service to humanity. We must assure our continued existance, and to accomplish that goal we must change!
I also agree that we need a more cooperative effort. However, as a former state leader, I was active in those efforts. My state has a strong licensure situation. We met with many other states whose requirements were less. They suggested we dilute ours to meet theirs which was unacceptable to us. Rather than attempt to advance themselves to a higher level, they wanted us to digress. No one id willing to admit another state has anything on them.
We need to develop some research through OAA to decide where we are headed and how we need to get there. A panel of experts (no not somebody's buddy), but truly people who are academically and professionally prepared and willing to provide direction to us all, should be assembled to seek a direction for the Opticians in every state to take. We need outside experts as well as those within.
I have gone on rather excessively, so I will stop here. I am passionate about our advancement.

**sgcuba** · 01-11-2001, 06:34 PM

Are licensed opticians upset because they have devoted time and money to a dying art? How hard is it to use a pupil-meter, bend a frame for correct fit, dot a pupil for a progressive, memorize which lens works best with which patient? C'mon we aren't talking about brain science here! I believe that is the real reason that deregulation is occurring! Why would anyone want to get licensed for such a low wage anyway?

**Jackie L** · 01-11-2001, 07:44 PM

sgcuba...........Licensing will mandate continuing education. Deregulation will not. How simple is that?

Jackie O

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Still a Maina for now

**sgcuba** · 01-11-2001, 08:17 PM

pretty simple, just like the work of an optician!

**Jeff Trail** · 01-11-2001, 08:44 PM

sgcuba,

What you descibe as an "optician" is a frame stylist. An optician should know and understand far more then just the things you listed. Such as indexes, materials, lens design .. basic knowledge on the medical side,ocular anatomy and physiology, basic pathology, amblyopia, macualar degeneration, ocular histoplasmosis, corneal topography, visual fields etc., etc.. Types of visual problems and corrective procedures through lens and or contacts.
Knowledge of prism, slabbing and use of segs for visual correction. Basic theory and UNDERSTAND those theories on refractive powers, base curves, fitting, dispensing, chromatic abberation, oblique astigmatism, fresnal's equation on loss of light transmission, prentice rule on induced prism, design availibilty in materials and indexes, knowing prism "how,why,when", and on and on.. and I haven't even touched on contacts, IOL's, etc., etc. ...
If you think the "cookie cutter" mentality and popping out "chain store" brands of PAL's and getting a spiff is what makes an "optician" then I would tend to think you would be correct in thinking "who needs regulated" :)

Jeff "no quote today" Trail

**sgcuba** · 01-11-2001, 09:31 PM

OK, and with all of your knowledge tell me how much you use it? I work at an optical boutique. We have a optometrist on staff, she is the owner. I have dispensed over 500 pair of spectacles, NEVER have I had a problem with any patient! If the M.D. makes a suggestion then that's what we go with. Otherwise I explain the lens differences and let the patient decide which they prefer based on what they tell me about their daily habits. Its great you have so much knowledge but how much of it do you really use? We use one of the finest labs in a five state area and I repeat we never have problems. Do you deal mostly with insurance patients with certain conditions that need special attention? It dumbfounds me that people are alarmed that this business is being deregulated

**Alan W** · 01-11-2001, 11:38 PM

Dear sgcuba
Did you know that one of the most respected optical chains in the United States was Benson Optical Co? Never heard of it? You never will!
It was destroyed by a corporate raider named Martin Franklin, an outsider. Benson had a requirement that all dispensers be ABO Certified and all managers have an Associates Degree . . . 700 of them. The quality and professionalism of this company made it extremely succesful. I was privileged to be their training director in the latter years . . . but too late!
They were bought and sold 3 times, each time for its wealth, size, and locations. It was almost exclusively located in doctors offices in a "host environment". You would have died in that environment. Most doctors would describe you as . . . . certainly not suited for their environment, for sure! But, it was vulnerable to commercialism and managed care. So, it lost its footing. It later became Omega and Optical Radiation . . . but died in the retail marketplace.
You speak of retail mentality. You speak of success based on the acceptable minimum to survive in the retail marketplace. So did Lenscrafters. In fact Lenscrafters ws actually started by some damned smart optical people mixed with smart retailers. Lenscrafters didn't make glasses that were outside the parameters of its technical ability in its early days. You are no big shocker, sgcuba. You are a little PD taker in a big business. They did fine in the retail marketplace. Unfortunately, Lenscrafters took off in the wrong direction.
What's my point here?
My point is that knowledge is power. The segment of the professional community which is truly technically strong must also be politically strong. It isn't enough to be higher on the technical totem poll. We, who are technically strong must also be in the chambers of the legislature. We have tried. But, we have failed politically. What we really need to do is get rid of the likes of you. Our goal should be to search and destroy in the marketplace. But, I dare say, I know of very few real professionals who play dirty in the marketplace. But, we all need to be painfully aware that our ophthamologist friends who wouldn't dare do a commercial 3 years ago are doing gingles on the radio today selling laser surgery.

Mr. sgcuba, you may be more accomplished than you think. One of us might even agree that you can bend a temple pretty well. The problem is that you are insulting your colleagues. And, you do that because you are not a professional at heart. You are a retailer who picked up a few technical skills here and there.
Be assured, however, that one of us have seen one of your victims at one time or another. You ain't Gods gift to optics. You simply make money off of someone who knew more than you did, and who created a thing called a lens, or a tint, or a PD ruler, or a patternless edger. You are at the bottom of the optical food chain. Hope you enjoy the fruits of our technical ability. You may be seated now.

Remember the plight of the physical therepist, the dental hygenist . . . see what they have accomplished. Then see how we have allowed the "sgcubas" of this world to perform on a retail turf and degrade what should have been a profession doing a lot more than it does. The paramedics doing the run on "Rescue 8" had to call in to the hospital (remember Bobby Troup and July London?) and get instructions from the doctors. Now the doctors rely on the decision of the paramedic to save lives.

Hello! What are we getting behind, folks?

PS . . . I'm beginning to think a 40 foot Grand Banks berthed in Boca Raton is definitely much more attractive than working at Wally World.

**Thumper** · 01-11-2001, 11:46 PM

Bob, I am shocked that the king of DEREGULATION AND NONGOVERNMENTAL INTERFERENCE is in favor of rules and regulation.
What's up?

**stephanie** · 01-12-2001, 02:10 AM

While I am NOT opposed to licensure, what really throws me about all of this is the fact that anyone CAN and DOES do this job. Then why if that is so do all people who sell glasses or cut jobs in the lab not be manadated to pass a rigorous testing to allow them to be viewed as "competant"? I am not talking about the ABO or NCLE I am talking a state mandated testing. Why also do even licensed opticians NOT seem to be making the money they so deserve? Why does the optician organizations do something about the salaries of licensed opticians and make it truly something to be proud of. I am not saying all of this to be negative, but rather out of the perspective of someone who just does not understand the difference. To me it just would not affect me since I am unlicensed still anyway. Yes I am persuing my license but really am not sure why. I love optical and would do anything to learn all I can of the industry, but does having a license mean that I am going to be better at my job? How about those of us who are on the apprenticeship program? Do these organizations take an active interest in us? I feel like everything I have learned came out of a book primarily. No licensed optician could be bothered to help me with my studies, or even seem to take any interest with questions I had about things they should have been more than willing to help with. I have also found that quite a few times I did e-mail TDOA to no avail. I have a lot of questions about things concerning licensure and I hardly ever get a reply from either the licensed opticians or from any organization. Usually I am better off just to come on the optiboard and ask at least I know on here someone will take the time to answer me. I truly don't mean to sound negative but when it comes to my career I want answers and so far have found few.
Have a good day!!
Steph

[This message has been edited by stephanie (edited 01-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by stephanie (edited 01-11-2001).]

**PAkev** · 01-12-2001, 03:57 AM

One of the most promising qualities of a good optician is motivation and pride. Motivation creates the drive to learn while pride develops a measurement of their accomplishment. I would much rather pay someone posessing these qualities a premium than pay someone minnimum wage to punch a clock at 9 and 5.

When we see the expectations of our profession as sgcuba indicated, we also see it followed by substandard performance and quality.

It doesn't appear that these folks have either motivation or pride in "their job". Notice I called it "THEIR JOB" when the rest of us call it "OUR PROFESSION"

Without MOTIVATION to become a professional they like all other JOBBERS will get tired of fitting and/or grinding sphere lenses all day long or else pressing the start button on their patternless edgers. No motivation to stay and no motivation to learn and the word optician on their name tag has less meaning than it did when they started. Unfortunately, they will have the privelage to tell folks they worked as an optician when moving on to their next JOB.

Perhaps they enjoy working under the thumb of an optomotrist and decide to be the puppet on the end of a string. But, without PRIDE they will have many opportunities to use their little spool of washer material and fill the gaps of all those expensive frames.

The context of sgcuba's post indicates little knowledge about the scope of opticianry. To demean opticianry indicates limited confidence in oneself and their abilities. If in fact sgcuba has dispensed 500 RX's and is in a modestly successful practice, It is very Liberal to estimate involvement in opticianry for less than 6 months. If it has been longer than that it appears that most of the days go by without "Bending frames"

Optician Wanted
SGCUBA'S need not apply

[This message has been edited by PAkev (edited 01-11-2001).]

**Jeff Trail** · 01-12-2001, 08:11 AM

sgcuba,

First, an OD is NOT an MD, the least you could do is get that correct if you want to have a half way decent debate

Second 500 pair huh? .. you really cranking them out. Lets see when I had my two stores (now I'm just a lowly wholesale lab owner) my stores averaged 20 pair per day..lets do the math, that's 40 per day.. so the way I see it you should have about a months worth of experience. :)
Third the "best lab" in five state area.. hmm with all your "experience" I can see where you are speaking with authority about lab quality.

Fourth, there is a FAR wider range of field in optics BESIDES dispensing cookie cutter third party jobs. Things like low vision (very profitable) sports vision, vision therapy, pediatric visual care, etc., etc. It's visual care that you actually need to have a little further understanding then just tossing out a few suggestions and then selling a pair of .50 spheres.

The main difference between my experience and your experience is I made a six digit paycheck last year BECAUSE of that experience. It may have been a "low six digit" check :) but still ones experience can be useful. One other thing you seem to not be looking at, as you get more experience then people start to take notice. I get referrals from all over the state in low vision work and with an average sale of over $600 then that experience comes in handy.
Another advantage of always trying to expand your experience and knowledge is you become a valuable asset to someone and not as easily replaceable.
I would think you are not looking for any advancement in the field and to you it is just a job, so be it. To me I think it's a fairly lucrative job and I find that knowing a little more then "taking a PD or "dotting" a lens" pays off.
Oh well just one lab rats opinion.. BTW I lost my box of optical centers, you seen them up your way, "I repeat" seen them up your way

Jeff "those that want to CAN those looking for that $7.00 an hour apply to work with sgcuba" Trail .. :)

punisher · 01-12-2001, 10:12 AM

.

**Joann Raytar** · 01-12-2001, 11:51 AM

Jeff:

Perhaps that is the trouble. Today's LO's don't have to grind a +6.00 lens with 8D of prism or -18.00 biconcave lenses. They don't have to edge into complex frames with homemade patterns. If you don't actually know what is behind your end product you will never have a true understanding of what you are doing. Sure a Px with a -1.50 may not care if you have a clue or not but someone with one of the above Rx's will.

Before anyone says anything, yes I do know folks out there who still do this stuff in house. Some of them are even running old Coburn and Shuron generators; but that doesn't matter, some of people I know running automated generators can run rings around a number of folks out there. It breaks down to respect. Some customers don't care and want their glasses fast others do care.

Think of yourself. What if you were so in love with someone you wanted to buy them the best diamond engagement ring you could find. Would you go to the local department store and trust their opinion on the quality of the diamond or would you rather go to a reputable jewelry that specializes in diamonds?

**sgcuba** · 01-12-2001, 04:34 PM

Hmm, 500 pairs at average cost of $400=$200,00. That's in 6 months, 60% profit margin=$120,000. Not a bad half a year for a idiot like myself! Maybe I should get licensed because after all this time "maybe" someone will come I with a question that will stump me! Its a wonder that I get all these referrals if we do such a under qualified job of dispensing! Its not that we don't have PRIDE in our work people, the point I'm making is our patients have pretty strait forward needs. To fulfill these needs doesn't take a brain surgeon. Sorry if you are offended that a store can be very profitable without having to employ a certified "optician."

**HenryB** · 01-12-2001, 04:41 PM

60% profit margin huh? You might want to include your expenses in those numbers, THEN you will have an accurate profit margin.....doesn't sound to me like you have backed out rent, utilities, salaries, supplies, and so on.......and if you have, and still make a 60% profit margin....you should be consulting, not dispensing glasses....lol.

**sgcuba** · 01-12-2001, 05:54 PM

that is "gross profit margin." Expenses run 8k per mo. Two employees. Bottom line? We will net around 110K after paying ourselves. Kinda makes your opticians license look pretty pitiful!

**Jeff Trail** · 01-12-2001, 08:13 PM

I can only say one thing, as an owner of two stores for more then 15 years and a wholesale lab I can only quote Darris and Pete's buddy G.W. "your math seems kinda fuzzy to me" :)
Oh BTW if you do not add a active E-M account to your profile Steve will knock you off the board. Better fix it toot sweet :)
One other thing to consider.. all that money you said you were going to make ? That's going into the OD's pocket not your's.. one thing to think about if you were Lic. you could have your own store :) Oh that's right we opticians are dumb..I forgot.. better to make money for someone else..

Jeff "playing hall monitor today" Trail

**sgcuba** · 01-12-2001, 09:50 PM

Jeff, I don't understand how the math is fuzzy. Oh, and by the way I live in a great state that is deregulated so I could open if I wanted to! Good luck with your stores. One thing I'm kind of confused about. If you opticians are so full of pride then why do you sell crap? Calvin Klein? Armani? This stuff is trash! You should be ashamed selling this stuff. I cant tell you how many customers have walked in wearing this junk then bought a pair of L.A Eyeworks and cant believe they were ever stupid enough to fork out money for designer trash. Good luck with it though! Makes my job easier!

**Jeff Trail** · 01-13-2001, 06:20 AM

Why do I think you are having problems with the math? Well, being a wholesaler as well as a retailer I can pretty well gauge your prices...
You said $8,000 to do business in a month. With the amount of jobs you posted that you were doing and with two employees.. well it just does not add up..
If you break it down you are averaging 83 jobs per month.. now even if I'm liberal and say you have 80% private and only 20% third party (which would buck about EVERY OD and MD I know) but still, giving you the benefit of the doubt.. lets see even if I do not add in a lot of the xtra's(rent,utilities etc., etc.) and just base it on two wages and lab bill and frame bill .. then say you each draw $2,000 ..now we are down to $4,000 ..83 frames and jobs in a month... lets try to be liberal here as well and split it again.. $2,000 for the frames that would be $24 a frame... and if your lab bill is $2000 that's an average cost of $24.00 per job in lens .. which means there is NO WAY you are selling more then 20% high end lens .. Wholesale pricing I know forward and backwards.. you figure in an average of $5 for edging and mounting for every job so now we have a lens price of $19 .. which means you are doing a ton of FT's and SV's.. with that kind of split it has to be about 7 to 1 low end to premium.
So now we have an average frame price of $24 an average lens price of $19 and your average sale is ..what was it you said $600?
That is what I call FUZZY math...

If you are going to try to prove your point by using statistical numbers you may want to recheck your math. I know exactly what it costs for lens (wholesale) and frames and probably just about everyone else with some experience on this board seen it did not add up as well.. spouting the numbers you posted may sound great to someone outside the industry.. But to people who have a wide array of experience in wholesale and retail..nope it don't jive...
I'm finding this thread starting to become tiresome.. let someone else "play" Al? Pete? Darris? Chad (haven't seen you grace the pages for a while) .. take over, I'm finding the argument becoming tedious...

Jeff "oh to be a rookie again" Trail

**Jackie L** · 01-13-2001, 01:37 PM

sgcuba................It isn't always about the bottom line and who has the best toys. Some men brag because they lack. (licensing that is)

20 years for me and licensed in an unlicensed state. Why? Because we can.

To quote Alan W........... Mr. sgcuba, you may be more accomplished than you think. One of us might even agree that you can bend a temple pretty well. The problem is that you are insulting your colleagues. And, you do that because you are not a professional at heart.

Now do you "get it"?

Jackie O

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Still a Maina for now

**EyeManFla** · 01-13-2001, 02:21 PM

Childern, childern, don't fight-play nice!

Believe it or not, the "bottom line" has NOTHING to do with license or non-license. It does have to do with what type of businessperson you are.

Profit margin is a tricky thing. Sure, you can make a few bucks selling $5.00 frames for $100.00. But in the long run, it will come back to bite you in the butt.

I have a competitor down the street that sells nothing but discontinued and knock-off crap. He treats his staff like crap and plays fast and loose with state regulations. "Bottom Line", his profit margin is 5x what mine is. So why did he just lay off his two best salespeople....
because he is a bottom feeding preditor and everybody knows it.

I sell first class merchandise and I pay my staff well. We are not open seven days a week and we are not cheap. Our profit margins are lower......and we are doing quite well, thank you.

If deregulation happened tomorrow, noting would change. You see, my opticians here are not Florida licensed, but they are very, very good at what they do. And I pay the accordingly.

When I hear other Opticians talk about how deregulation will be a disaster, all I can say to them is that the marketplace will decide.

**sgcuba** · 01-13-2001, 03:51 PM

I never said 8k a month cash flows the business. I dont know where you got that idea. I havent included frame cost or lab cost. The 8k is pretty much fixed. Rent, utilities, ins... Anyway, im done arguing.

**Joann Raytar** · 01-16-2001, 04:29 AM

A small apology to sgcuba.

This is not an attempt to continue an argument just to offer an apology. I guess we all jumped on you without listening. Back in the summer you posted to a topic:

Hasn't todays technology with frame materials and high-index/polycarb lens materials made it incredibly easy to do a job that 10-20 years ago was much harder? I work with a good lab that does incredible work and have had nearly no problems. Listening to your client seems to be the biggest problem some opticians have. Listen and sell them what works with what they want. You can teach any idiot to fit frames and dot lenses. This approach works well for me, have I been lucky for all these years?

Most definitely technology has made a difference. You are right on one of your points the biggest problem some opticians have is listening and fitting to needs. Even though making the glasses isn't as work intensive as it used to be fitting to patient needs is still a key part of our profession. I also believe you can teach anyone off the street to handle mild Rx fitting. You still need experience to handle non-adapts and troubleshooting, especially with folks who have high Rx's. This is where listening and learning become very important to survival in our business.