Thank you very much for explaining your design and responding to all the comments, and for offering demonstration lenses!
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Originally posted by drk View PostThank you very much for explaining your design and responding to all the comments, and for offering demonstration lenses!
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Originally posted by Uilleann View PostHere's the white paper:
At it's most basic, the concept seems to be something like a Camber blank, just backside? May try a pair to see how it feels on these old eyes. Of course, the marketing used paints even modern PALs as some sort of horrid ancient optical torture device, rife with "swim and distortion", the buzz words of every powerpoint slide bemoaning PALs since their inception. I've not seen "swim and distortion" be even a minor factor with almost any of the better lenses now for close to 20 years. And if you're struggling at all in taking a proper PD or seg height, the problem isn't with the lens design... *shrug*
Wooo boy this "white paper" is wordy AF. This feels like when you have a paper do and you need to pad the word count.
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Originally posted by juno View PostHow does add affect the corridor (for want of perhaps a better term). We're all aware a +2 add vs a +3 add in a PAL is going to have reduced channel width, does the NAL also experience a similar diminution?
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Originally posted by Prentice Pro 9000 View PostWooo boy this "white paper" is wordy AF. This feels like when you have a paper do and you need to pad the word count.
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Originally posted by JerGuinnip View PostThe reason the channel width with a progressive narrow in this instance is because the power progression increases quite a big over a short corridor length. Our power progression is through a 22mm power progression backbone which means the increase is much more subtle (which is why you don't get the same unwanted astigmatism/swim you get with a PAL) so it doesn't narrow the width.
Has this Omnilux design been compared accordingly with a progressive design of similar progression length and if so, how did it fare?
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JerGuinnip, I understand that QLDS just released a new NAL lens design named "OmniLux Custom".
From what I understand, this new "OmniLux Custom" lens is an Omnilux concept and in the same group as the original "OmniLux NAL", but for placing vertically this lens design in to the frame, a Fitting Height is used (not frame shape, position of DBL, and large statistical data as used for the original "OmniLux NAL"), and that since the Fitting Height is used to position this design, a tracing is not needed and it could run as an uncut lens, is that correct?
Can you please explain what the difference it between the "OmniLux Custom" vs the original "OmniLux NAL"?
And what benefits will the wearer gain w/ the Fitting Height use compared to the regular NAL?sigpic
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Originally posted by AndyOptom View PostI believe any progressive that can be ordered with a progression length of 22 mm would be significantly softer than whatever it is most patients dread about progressives. Haven't ordered a corridor that long before, the longest I've personally dispensed was a Seiko Superior with an 18 mm corridor (to a highly enthusiastic response, I quote the patient, "I'm a lucky ******* with vision like this"), but I've definitely seen at least one indie lab here that offered such an option.
Has this Omnilux design been compared accordingly with a progressive design of similar progression length and if so, how did it fare?
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Originally posted by brucekrymow View PostJerGuinnip, I understand that QLDS just released a new NAL lens design named "OmniLux Custom".
From what I understand, this new "OmniLux Custom" lens is an Omnilux concept and in the same group as the original "OmniLux NAL", but for placing vertically this lens design in to the frame, a Fitting Height is used (not frame shape, position of DBL, and large statistical data as used for the original "OmniLux NAL"), and that since the Fitting Height is used to position this design, a tracing is not needed and it could run as an uncut lens, is that correct?
Can you please explain what the difference it between the "OmniLux Custom" vs the original "OmniLux NAL"?
And what benefits will the wearer gain w/ the Fitting Height use compared to the regular NAL?
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Lots to unpack and understand here (for me, at least), hope you don't mind the further inquiries :)
Originally posted by JerGuinnip View PostI have to stress that this is not a progressive lens. It was granted a new US utility patent in 2022 so it is not just another design of progressive lenses it is a new multifocal concept and the first since the original progressive patent 60 years ago.
Progressives have 3 distinct zones, Distance, Intermediate and Near, so essentially a no line trifocal. The NAL (Omnilux) on the other hand has a slow power progression backbone which uses a mathematically created curvature based on natural downward gaze focal length deceleration requirements to correct for all focal lengths from 20ft to 1ft (so 20ft, 19ft, 18ft, 17ft) with one continuous curve through the lens. So as you look down through the lens it will correct for whatever distance you are needing not just 3 distinct fields while depending on your reserve accommodation.
Regardless of how a lens design is accomplished mechanically (PAL as a no-line trifocal with an extra long corridor versus NAL with this single continuous curve), how much is the perceived improvement when placed in front of the end user's eyes? Compared to a progressive of equivalent corridor length?
Doesn't matter that whatever the NAL uses is not a corridor, how does it measure up functionally and feels-wise versus a corridor that gets stretched out that long (therefore widening and further softening the PAL anyway)?
With NAL you don't get that because it is correcting for all distances.
Therefore the entire corridor/curve can work for any distance between 20 to 1 feet, and the wearer doesn't have to look down to fixate closer?
That is the impression I get when you say the NAL corrects for all distances in a way PAL cannot.
Otherwise, no-line trifocal or not, PAL also correct for all distances. Just using a shorter corridor (and therefore with a narrower FOV + more swim).
It also uses peripheral defocus to help combat the unwanted astigmatism generated from the power progression which is why between the defocus and the longer ramp you do not get the swim feeling you get with progressive lenses.
Design etc aside, has the NAL been compared side by side with a progressive of equivalent above average corridor length? And if so, which designs + what were the results? The white paper makes no mention of this.
Otherwise, beg pardon for me saying so, this sounds like how the bigger labs compare a brand new freeform progressive design in high index with multicoat to a bog standard molded design uncoated in CR-39.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for innovation and advancements in lens technology, and routinely dispense PAL, multifocal contact lenses, bifocals, you name it, for purposes other than their actual intended designs... as long as to the patient, the vision + function provided meets expectations + requirements. So this NAL has definitely piqued my curiosity, although I'd definitely subject it to the same professional skepticism I would any new lens from any lab (all of my regular lens reps know, if they can't at least clarify such details reasonably to aid the fit and dispense, I'm not selling those products).Last edited by AndyOptom; 04-16-2024, 02:11 AM.
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Originally posted by AndyOptom View PostLots to unpack and understand here (for me, at least), hope you don't mind the further inquiries :)
Ok, noted.
Be that as it may, how does this design functionally differ from a progressive with a 20 mm corridor? One continuous curve or not, once a progressive corridor gets that long, they're smoother than the usual anyway (as with certain office progressives whose designs are basically one extended corridor running through the entire vertical of the lens, those definitely don't feel like a no-line trifocal, as you describe).
Regardless of how a lens design is accomplished mechanically (PAL as a no-line trifocal with an extra long corridor versus NAL with this single continuous curve), how much is the perceived improvement when placed in front of the end user's eyes? Compared to a progressive of equivalent corridor length?
Doesn't matter that whatever the NAL uses is not a corridor, how does it measure up functionally and feels-wise versus a corridor that gets stretched out that long (therefore widening and further softening the PAL anyway)?
So if an NAL wearer is looking through the upper part of the corridor/curve (intended for about 20 feet), they can also see clearly a fixation target within about arm's length (supposed to be only viewable through the lower part of the corridor/curve, if we were talking about progressives)?
Therefore the entire corridor/curve can work for any distance between 20 to 1 feet, and the wearer doesn't have to look down to fixate closer?
That is the impression I get when you say the NAL corrects for all distances in a way PAL cannot.
Otherwise, no-line trifocal or not, PAL also correct for all distances. Just using a shorter corridor (and therefore with a narrower FOV + more swim).
Various progressives also have built in design features with the same stated aim, so my initial question remains:
Design etc aside, has the NAL been compared side by side with a progressive of equivalent above average corridor length? And if so, which designs + what were the results? The white paper makes no mention of this.
Otherwise, beg pardon for me saying so, this sounds like how the bigger labs compare a brand new freeform progressive design in high index with multicoat to a bog standard molded design uncoated in CR-39.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for innovation and advancements in lens technology, and routinely dispense PAL, multifocal contact lenses, bifocals, you name it, for purposes other than their actual intended designs... as long as to the patient, the vision + function provided meets expectations + requirements. So this NAL has definitely piqued my curiosity, although I'd definitely subject it to the same professional skepticism I would any new lens from any lab (all of my regular lens reps know, if they can't at least clarify such details reasonably to aid the fit and dispense, I'm not selling those products).
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I received my sample pair yesterday. After wearing them all afternoon and now this morning I am already impressed. The flow from my distance Rx to the reading is pretty well seamless, I will say there seems to be just a little bit of adaptation (maybe not the best word, just getting used to), but about the same as putting on a pair of Eyezen + lenses for the first time or a change to a new Rx. Driving I had full clear visibility of my dash and odometer, looking at the road felt just as natural as when I used to wear single vison glasses! These feel very natural to my eyes, sitting at the computer I can already tell I am not straining as hard to read continuously and am hoping to see less eye fatigue at the end of the day. If you are iffy still I say give them a try, I am extremely intrigued by this lens and honestly very impressed. Thank you Jeremy and Quest Labs for the opportunity to try these first hand!
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I would like to thank Jeremy for posting so dilligently on this lens design.
Jeremy, I hope I'm not going over old territory, but can I characterize the design this way?
First of all, it seems that in aspheric multifocal CL design, some (B+L, e.g.) aim for "stabilized zones" which means it wants to make a "trifocal-like" effect but with "blends" in-between the zones. They feel it gives more dedicated "area" (it's all about "area") to, say, 40cm and 66cm. The "gaps" (like, say 50 cm) have less area dedicated and in fact you zip through that on your way from intermediate to near.
I think some of the spectacle lens PALs are aiming for the same thing...a quick ramp up of power to a larger area for intermediate use, where the power change slows down, and then another quick ramp up to another "stabilized" zone (no further progression) for near.
If that's right, can we characterize the Ominlux as a "continuous" power change without the "speed bumps" for stabilized, dedicated areas?
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