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Thread: If you thought Opternative was bad enough...

  1. #1
    My Brain Hurts jpways's Avatar
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    If you thought Opternative was bad enough...

    From Vision Monday:
    NEW YORK—Warby Parker is stepping into the controversial field of online vision testing with the launch of a mobile refraction service that lets current customers measure their visual acuity using an app. Called the Warby Parker Prescription Check the test “helps eligible folks with expired eyeglasses prescriptions get a new one—without setting foot in a doctor’s office,” according to the company’s promotional literature.

    The app, which can be downloaded from the App Store, enables consumers to take a 20-minute test on an iPhone or computer that determines the sharpness of their eyesight. Consumers then send their test results and their current prescription to a Warby Parker-affiliated eye doctor, who determines if their vision has changed since their last eye exam.

    If the patient’s vision has not changed since their last prescription, the doctor will write them an updated prescription within 24 hours that can be used anywhere. If the patient’s vision has changed, the doctor may recommend that they get a comprehensive eye exam. Warby Parker did not specify whether an optometrist or ophthalmologist would review the results of the vision test.

    Initially, Warby Parker is limiting the availability of the service to customers who live in New York, Florida, California or Virginia, although the company said it plans to roll out the tool to new states rapidly. Patients must be between 18 and 40 years old to use the service and must have had a comprehensive eye exam within the last five years.

    Customers with a history of eye disease or risk factors are not eligible to participate. The service is currently limited to eyeglass wearers who have a single-vision distance prescription with a sphere between 0 and -6.0 diopters and a cylinder between 0 and -2.0 diopters.

    Although advocates of online refraction maintain that it is expanding the availability of vision care to a larger population, the technology has met with resistance from some optometrists. A leading provider of online vision tests, Opternative, has come under fire from the American Optometric Association as well as from state optometric groups which argue that consumers may not be able to distinguish between an online refraction and a comprehensive eye exam.

    In its promotional materials for Prescription Check, Warby Parker advises consumers that the test is not a comprehensive eye exam and it isn’t meant to replace visits to an eye doctor.

  2. #2
    My Brain Hurts jpways's Avatar
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    What's next you spin a wheel at the mall (or Wally World because who goes to malls) and if you spin a 20, your prescription must be good (because everyone knows that you can't cheat at cell phone VA checks)

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    Customers with a history of eye disease or risk factors are not eligible to participate. The service is currently limited to eyeglass wearers who have a single-vision distance prescription with a sphere between 0 and -6.0 diopters and a cylinder between 0 and -2.0 diopters.


    NICE!!! just so happens to be the power range of their "stock" lens powers!!

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    Redhot Jumper Warby Parker is stepping into the controversial field of online vision testing

    Quote Originally Posted by jpways View Post

    Warby Parker is stepping into the controversial field of online vision testing with the launch of a mobile refraction service that lets current customers measure their visual acuity using an app. Called the Warby Parker Prescription Check the test “helps eligible folks with expired eyeglasses prescriptions get a new one—without setting foot in a doctor’s office,” according to the company’s promotional literature.

    So what I have been posting right here on OptiBoard for the last many years is now actually happening, and becoming a fact, we all have to live with and eat the consequences.

    Essilux is also developing a sophisticated autorefractor that should hit the public level in a short while.

    The future of the traditional independent dispensing optical store looks bleaker as time races by.

    There is no better place than OptiBoard to discuss solutions to counter these new facts.

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    I'm sorry, but online refraction is not "vision care". That app doesn't give a crap about that patient's overall eye health. Sure, they state that people with a history of eye disease aren't eligible. What about the people who haven't been diagnosed yet, and now won't be for a few more years, since this app now allowed them to get glasses without seeing a doctor?

    Their disclaimer at the bottom that this isn't meant to replace visits to an eye doctor contradicts the beginning of the article, where it states that the app
    “helps eligible folks with expired eyeglasses prescriptions get a new one—without setting foot in a doctor’s office,” according to the company’s promotional literature."

    Why does our current society seem to think that medical professionals can or should be replaced by a phone app?

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    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plculver View Post
    ...Why does our current society seem to think that medical professionals can or should be replaced by a phone app?
    Because it's only pandering to the lowest possible denominator. Thankfully, the vast majority will always understand the need and value of in person medical visits - optical or otherwise.

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    Hi. I got on to check it out and put my true DOB. It rejected me because I was over 40. Went back and changed my DOB and "surprise", it was fine. and also, regardless of previous diagnosed medical issues, anyone can put in "no medical problems".
    Providing exceptional service will allow practices to thrive.

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    Ghost in the OptiMachine Quince's Avatar
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    I find it interesting that they don't want you using it if you are outside of NY, CA, VA, or FL...
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

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    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    This would fall under the rubric of "telemedicine" and "DIY". It's a physician analyzing results of self testing.

    It's not really new or different. It just gets around laws that are in place to protect people from bad medicine.

    There is no "right" to "bad medicine", though.

    A nice, fat tort will stop this, as the world slowly turns. Lawyers are going to hit some MDs malpractice carrier very, very hard. The insurers will fight back, and exclude such practitioners.

    It will take time.

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    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Redhot Jumper It is all a matter to increase the traffic if you like it or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post

    It's not really new or different. It just gets around laws that are in place to protect people from bad medicine.

    However it is new to online opticals and will make waves among other onliners to compete.

    It is all a matter to increase the traffic if you like it or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    So what I have been posting right here on OptiBoard for the last many years is now actually happening, and becoming a fact, we all have to live with and eat the consequences.

    Essilux is also developing a sophisticated autorefractor that should hit the public level in a short while.

    The future of the traditional independent dispensing optical store looks bleaker as time races by.

    There is no better place than OptiBoard to discuss solutions to counter these new facts.
    I have to give Chris Ryser due credit. He did indeed predict this happening, and as much as I scoffed at it at the time, it has indeed happened. Despite seeming a little nuts, apparently Chris is more aware of what is going to happen than most of us. We would do well to listen more closely to what he has to say about future trends. I owe you an apology Chris, you are clearly more well versed in what is going on than I am, by at least a few orders of magnitude. It was my own myopic bias that prevented me from seeing you could indeed be correct. I will endeavor to give what you say more reflection and thought rather than dismiss it out of hand as rambling nonsense.

  12. #12
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    The actual percentage of B&M dispensaries who's business will show a measurable slump due to this will end up being what in reality?

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the original "occulists" solely concerned with refraction, leaving actual eye health to MDs?

    Seems like we're coming back around to the beginning in a very strange way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    This would fall under the rubric of "telemedicine" and "DIY". It's a physician analyzing results of self testing.

    It's not really new or different. It just gets around laws that are in place to protect people from bad medicine.

    There is no "right" to "bad medicine", though.

    A nice, fat tort will stop this, as the world slowly turns. Lawyers are going to hit some MDs malpractice carrier very, very hard. The insurers will fight back, and exclude such practitioners.

    It will take time.
    Health care by proxy. What will be next? I shudder to think.

    To quote the Rolling Stones....You'll come runnin' back.....

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    Blue Jumper apparently Chris is more aware of what is going to happen

    Quote Originally Posted by Lelarep View Post

    I have to give Chris Ryser due credit. He did indeed predict this happening, and as much as I scoffed at it at the time, it has indeed happened. Despite seeming a little nuts, apparently Chris is more aware of what is going to happen than most of us.

    Lelarep, ............ Thank you for your statement.

    I have followed the development and trends in the optical lab and retail trade in details for the last 52 years to be exact, and which puts it long before OptiBoard existed.

    OptiBoard to me is a record of optical opinions in time frames, by the actual participants and will serve me in my next project of a lifetime, which will be a book about the rise and demise of an age old profession.

    When I retire from my present occupation I will have experienced all stages of the profession, from retail to successful wholesale of brand name frames, wholesale lab and development and manufacturing of optical lens treatments.

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    Blue Jumper Why does our current society seem to think ...................................

    Quote Originally Posted by plculver View Post

    Why does our current society seem to think that medical professionals can or should be replaced by a phone app?

    Your current society in the USA, being dispensing opticians are the only ones that insist of medical terms on a worldwide basis.

    Your customers, that purchase eyeglasses, buy a mechanical device that makes them see better through a physical bending of the light rays by their lenses.......................

    However you believe that you are medical related profession and call your customers patients. These so called patients are on a worldwide basis everywhere, in the optical retail not patients, but just customers.

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    Ghost in the OptiMachine Quince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Your current society in the USA, being dispensing opticians are the only ones that insist of medical terms on a worldwide basis.

    Your customers, that purchase eyeglasses, buy a mechanical device that makes them see better through a physical bending of the light rays by their lenses.......................

    However you believe that you are medical related profession and call your customers patients. These so called patients are on a worldwide basis everywhere, in the optical retail not patients, but just customers.

    We have a terrible relationship with the doctor associated with us. Separate businesses but sharing a wall. Instead of walking people to his door, I let them know we are like a pharmacy- you can go next door or bring a prescription from anywhere and we can fill it.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter lensmanmd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    you believe that you are medical related profession and call your customers patients. These so called patients are on a worldwide basis everywhere, in the optical retail not patients, but just customers.
    There are those of us that work in a 3 O's environment, where customers are actually called patients. There are those of us that are affiliated with HMOs, which also call their customers patients. In the big box retail environment, where one to one service is generally lacking, they are customers. It is semantics, but there are reasons for the nomenclature.

    Personally, being a 'patient' sure beats being a generic customer.

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    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    "customers" shop online.

    "patients" lean towards qualified ECPs and a b&m office.

    There is a difference.

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    Blue Jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post

    "customers" shop online.

    "patients" lean towards qualified ECPs and a b&m office.

    There is a difference.


    online opticals started about 12 years ago, opticians have been around for a few hundreds of them.


    what is the percentage of qualified ECPs versus the non qualified ones ?


    where is the difference?

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    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    100,000 / 1?

    You tell us?

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    Blue Jumper In roughly half the state's, licensing is not a requirement..........................

    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post

    100,000 / 1?

    You tell us?


    Actually I do not know, or I would not have asked the question. I only know that
    about half the States in the USA are not even regulated

    In roughly half the state's, licensing is not a requirement to make or dispense eyewear. Many eye doctors do their own dispensing, and it is frequent for eye clinics to have an optician on their premises; or, conversely, for large optical chains to have optometrists in offices on their premises.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Bronze Supporter
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    Corporate is only interested in profits. Profits come from greater sales and less expense. Eliminate the cost of a professional optometrist or opticians and you end up with enormous profit margins.

    So how do you fight that. Well opticians should have, but can still save their profession by joining a union. If all opticians were unionized, they would have the power and control to fight back against the corporate power.

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    Blue Jumper That is the ugliest idea that could become reality .............................

    Quote Originally Posted by coupe View Post

    So how do you fight that. Well opticians should have, but can still save their profession by joining a union. If all opticians were unionized, they would have the power and control to fight back against the corporate power.

    That is the ugliest idea that could become reality, and also did so in the late 1970s to 1980 in the optical industry of Canada.

    It killed Imperial Optical and their subsidiary National Optical in Quebec. It also infected some independents, as my own private independent company, and ended up, all of us loosing what we built up over a 20 year period.

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    OptiBoard Professional Kujiradesu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quince View Post
    I find it interesting that they don't want you using it if you are outside of NY, CA, VA, or FL...
    They probably have laws against writing a prescription for a patient you've never seen in person. (^-^;A
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