If you thought Opternative was bad enough...

[Chris Ryser]

having a business that gets unionized, can make the employees become the dictators

Interesting. Good to know.

Not so good to know, because having a business that gets unionized, can make the employees become the dictators, and run you out of business.

[John@OWDC]

I think, whether we on a personal or professional level like it or not, online and auto-refracted glasses rxes are coming, whether we like it or not. Yes those rxes will be subpar to subjective refraction. Yes, symptoms of devastating eye diseases will be missed. The future is here, and as a whole, opticians and ODs and OMDs should find a way to work together, if the best interest of the bespectacled public is at the heart of the issue. If the heart of the issue lies elsewhere, it's a business discussion and not a healthcare discussion.

Personally, I think the "free eye exam with glasses purchase" opened the door for this. When you devalue a service, it actually does lose its real and perceived value.

For the record, I don't like or dislike that this is coming. It just is, and we all have to adapt, until it is squashed on the legal field, or incorporated into daily life. I dread some of the auto-generated rxes that will come through the door, and I dread having a retail salesperson explain the symptoms of glaucoma to someone who just got bad news way later than they could have, had they had a medical eye exam. I dread the kid whose auto-refracted results are +.50 but needs a +4.00. But I also see an easier way to get a refraction for many, many people.

"Yes those rxes will be subpar to subjective refraction."

What would make you say that?

http://www.laramyk.com/blog/self-refraction-technology-promises-optician-independence-sort-of/

[Java99]

"Yes those rxes will be subpar to subjective refraction."

What would make you say that?

http://www.laramyk.com/blog/self-ref...dence-sort-of/

You know, I shouldn't have said that. It was an assumption based on not much that's relevant anymore. I am going to do the opternative exam tonight and see how it goes. I am way overdue for an exam, and the results will be especially interesting as I am to turn 40 in a week or so.

I remember reading that article earlier this year. Food for thought, for sure.

[fjpod]

It's one thing to employ objective objective and subjective refraction techniques....automated or manual. Sometimes one works better, then sometimes the other does.

Prescribing is something else altogether.

[Chris Ryser]

It just is, and we all have to adapt, until it is squashed on the legal field,.......

For the record, I don't like or dislike that this is coming. It just is, and we all have to adapt, until it is squashed on the legal field, or incorporated into daily life. I dread some of the auto-generated rxes that will come through the door, and I dread having a retail salesperson explain the symptoms of glaucoma to someone who just got bad news way later than they could have, had they had a medical eye exam.

It will never get squashed in the legal field..............

The world over opticians refract, except in North America. However they have learned how to do it, and passed the exams needed, including medical problems to be forwarded to an Ophthalmologist.

The optical online retail industry is pushing it ahead at double speed.

So tighten your optical seat belts, as it will become a bumpy ride in the near future.

[John@OWDC]

You know, I shouldn't have said that. It was an assumption based on not much that's relevant anymore. I am going to do the opternative exam tonight and see how it goes. I am way overdue for an exam, and the results will be especially interesting as I am to turn 40 in a week or so.

I remember reading that article earlier this year. Food for thought, for sure.

Java99

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Good for you!

Please share your Opternative experience with us when you get back.

John

[drk]

It's one thing to employ objective objective and subjective refraction techniques....automated or manual. Sometimes one works better, then sometimes the other does.

Prescribing is something else altogether.

Nobody gets that, except people who do this for a living.

Everyone seems to be an expert on vision care. But not the ones that actually do vision care...they're just money-grubbing obstructionists.

Enjoy The Fantasy, people.

[drk]

It will never get squashed in the legal field..............

The world over opticians refract, except in North America. However they have learned how to do it, and passed the exams needed, including medical problems to be forwarded to an Ophthalmologist.

The optical online retail industry is pushing it ahead at double speed.

So tighten your optical seat belts, as it will become a bumpy ride in the near future.

Chris, our standards of vision care kick the living crap out of the UK or Europe. It's a fact.

So don't hold it out as apples-to-apples.

If we followed Europe's lead, we will actually have to reduce our standards.

So, it's not desirable.


Nevertheless, in the frenzy for unregulated/easier/DIY/cheap vision care, some will opt for a reduction of standards. That is a choice, these days. "Fake care". "Self-care". "Real care".


But it's not a good thing, all-in-all. Regulated "real care" is the best model, hands down.

[rbaker]

Chris, our standards of vision care kick the living crap out of the UK or Europe. It's a fact.

So don't hold it out as apples-to-apples.

If we followed Europe's lead, we will actually have to reduce our standards.

Dr. K

You hit the nail squarely on the head. We can, and do, pi$$ and moan all we want but the fact is our health care in the US is second to none.

How many Americans "ROTC" (Run Over To Canada) for their health care? How many Americans go to England, France or Germany for their health care?

[Chris Ryser]

Regulated "real care" is the best model, hands down.........................

Regulated "real care" is the best model, hands down.

drk..................you got a good point, but...........................


You give top care as a professional..............then hand the Rx to your patient who wants to purchase wherever.

In the USA half the States are not even regulated for the sellers of the end result = the glasses.

In Canada 2 Provinces are now officially deregulated, and the 3rd one (Ontario) is not far behind of getting there.

[drk]

Deregulation, so far, is an attempt to steal business from regulated "markets".

If deregulation becomes universal then the scorched-earth nature of their callow policy will be evident: short term gain and long term loss.

[Java99]

Nevertheless, in the frenzy for unregulated/easier/DIY/cheap vision care, some will opt for a reduction of standards. That is a choice, these days. "Fake care". "Self-care". "Real care".


But it's not a good thing, all-in-all. Regulated "real care" is the best model, hands down.

For the record, I agree with you. Regulated care is the best model. Maybe a few months ago I would have thought that most people who need glasses and contacts would agree with you.

I don't think so anymore. I think many people want cheap and convenient unless they have a proven need to choose otherwise or have a specific "want" to fill. I think people feel there has been so much regulation that they feel is unnecessary that they fail to see how a lot of regulations provide necessary protections. People won't "get it" until they start to suffer. Sad.

That being said, I think there is room to separate the eye exam from refraction. Medicare has for years. Europe has for years. Consumers want this. Opticians want this. Large corporations with dollars to spend on lobbyists want this. There is a group within the Optician's Association of America developing a refraction course. States like NC are losing federal lawsuits over internet dispensing, which will eventually take the teeth out of all the state dispensing regulations. I think that's going to set the precedent for refractions. Good or bad, the future is here.

[Java99]

Got my Opternative rx. Both my husband and I did the test. I provided my written current rx to them, he did not. Our tests were different. He has more cyl and an add; I don't have an add, but we are both up there in sphere. He got an email this morning saying they could not proceed without his old written rx. I got my new rx just now. Will be a few days before I can wear it, I don't stock lenses this high and will have to order.

Old - OD -7.00 OS -6.00 -1.50 x37
New OD -7.25 OS -6.50 -1.50 x37

Sounds about right. Distance hasn't been great lately. It's been 2 years. If it's terrible, I will post back, but I bet it will be fine. It did come with big suggestions to get an eye health exam, FWIW.

[drk]

#1: Is the avatar your daughter?
#2: You're right, people are in a frenzy. They will have to learn the hard way.
#3: You're wrong about separating "refraction" (a misunderstood concept right there) and "eye exam". That's a bad understanding, and I could explain it, again.
#4: Medicare has nothing to do with it. That's way off base.
#5. The future is not here. We have some way to go.
#6. What consumers want matters a lot at a steakhouse. Less so at a critical cardiac care unit. We're somewhere on that continuum, but let's not overstate it. Patients are clueless on this issue.
#7. You include a lot of conjecture/prognostication. We'll see.

[drk]

Got my Opternative rx. Both my husband and I did the test. I provided my written current rx to them, he did not. Our tests were different. He has more cyl and an add; I don't have an add, but we are both up there in sphere. He got an email this morning saying they could not proceed without his old written rx. I got my new rx just now. Will be a few days before I can wear it, I don't stock lenses this high and will have to order.

Old - OD -7.00 OS -6.00 -1.50 x37
New OD -7.25 OS -6.50 -1.50 x37

Sounds about right. Distance hasn't been great lately. It's been 2 years. If it's terrible, I will post back, but I bet it will be fine. It did come with big suggestions to get an eye health exam, FWIW.

Pretty damn amazing they got your cyl axis exactly as before. Not! Sounds like they can't do jack squat without piggybacking on a real ODs old work! I could read your case history, have your old SpRx, and add the proverbial "1/2 D more minus". Garbage.

Now, as I said, if your avatar is a reflection of your age, you are far from presbyopia. But what if you bump up your minus a 1/2D OU and you're, say, 41? Does Dr. Opternative consider your near vision? Consider how long you want to keep these glasses (surely you wear contact lenses) and plan for the future with a starter PAL (or at least a digital "eyestrain" design)?

Did Dr. Opternative offer you a better binocular experience by recommending FFSV lenses what with that unilateral cyl?

Garbage.