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Thread: Any experience on handemade acetate frames?

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    Wave Any experience on handemade acetate frames?

    Hi all,

    this is my first post.
    My name is Alex and I live in Italy after graduating in the UK in Design

    I used the search button but, although I found some very interesting threads, I could not find what I was looking for.

    Keeping it very simple... I am evaluating the idea of starting a handmade range of sunglasses and I am looking for people with previous experience to share them.

    Now a little more in depth... as I already mentioned, I graduated in Product Design and I "stumbled upon" a very small, family run, eyewear workshop.
    I chatted to the lady and we agreed on a collaboration as far as the creation/assembling of acetate frames are concerned.
    Then I went to a very small (again!) Company which cuts acetate with Laser and we agreed to co-work on this project.
    These guys have never fully explored the potential of the laser they own and so are happy to that together with me.

    I use a vector file software and I would like to know if any of you have already tested lasers for the aesthetic treatment of acetate (zyl) sheets.
    Anyone?

    I would appreciate if some of you could share experiences in order to speed up the start-up process and the test time in front of the laser machine.

    Many thanks.

    Alex

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    OptiBoard Professional Kujiradesu's Avatar
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    I am not a frame designer or engi-nerd, but to my recollection, most commercial acetate frames are made by injection molding. So you might be creating completely new manufacturing methods.

    EDIT: This comment is completely wrong. Please see below.
    Last edited by Kujiradesu; 05-13-2017 at 06:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilciuchino View Post
    Hi all,

    this is my first post.
    My name is Alex and I live in Italy after graduating in the UK in Design

    I used the search button but, although I found some very interesting threads, I could not find what I was looking for.

    Keeping it very simple... I am evaluating the idea of starting a handmade range of sunglasses and I am looking for people with previous experience to share them.

    Now a little more in depth... as I already mentioned, I graduated in Product Design and I "stumbled upon" a very small, family run, eyewear workshop.
    I chatted to the lady and we agreed on a collaboration as far as the creation/assembling of acetate frames are concerned.
    Then I went to a very small (again!) Company which cuts acetate with Laser and we agreed to co-work on this project.
    These guys have never fully explored the potential of the laser they own and so are happy to that together with me.

    I use a vector file software and I would like to know if any of you have already tested lasers for the aesthetic treatment of acetate (zyl) sheets.
    Anyone?

    I would appreciate if some of you could share experiences in order to speed up the start-up process and the test time in front of the laser machine.

    Many thanks.

    Alex
    Actually...

    ...never mind my previous comment. I mustve completely made that up or misremembered the actual process.

    From System For Ophthalmic Dispensing:

    "Frame fronts and temples can be milled from slabs of cellulose acetate. They are finished in steps until being polished, and usually coated to protect frame material from sunlight..."

    So I guess the question for your family-run eyewear workmen is: how does laser milling improve the process as opposed to mechanical milling?
    Optical Cross: n. crucifixion apparatus used by the New Jersey State Board.

    "It is not knowing, but the love of learning, that characterizes the scientific [person]." -Charles Sanders Peirce

    "A concept is a brick. It can be used to build a courthouse of reason. Or it can be thrown through the window. -Gilles Deleuze

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    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    With some cellulose acetate blanks and some hand tools you can fabricate an ophthalmic frame. You don't need no milling machines or lasers to run off a couple of prototypes.

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    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    frames

    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post
    With some cellulose acetate blanks and some hand tools you can fabricate an ophthalmic frame. You don't need no milling machines or lasers to run off a couple of prototypes.

    contact our resdent expert here on the optiboard, jerry huang very familiar with this and has made frames out of more things then you can think of

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    Redhot Jumper Handmade does not make them any better.......................

    Handmade does not make them any better. or more valuable with the exception
    of turtle shell or natural horn frames, as well as wood, because they are made from small pieces.

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    Well sorry Chris but I would much rather have a handmade acetate frame. The extra time spent polishing can make a huge difference in particular.

    I'm sorry you've lost all excitement about the industry and seem to think the future is all Chinese mass produced crap. It's not, but keep repeating yourself if it makes you feel good.

    I've designed sunglasses myself for an American brand which are hand made in Italy. If you've any questions please ask away! I've not been involved in the production but I do have a good understanding of that too.

    There's a French brand called Volte Face which uses laser cutting to beautiful effect. They are worth looking at for inspiration.

    What are you thinking of using the laser for? Or do you prefer to keep your ideas a secret? If so I understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujiradesu View Post

    So I guess the question for your family-run eyewear workmen is: how does laser milling improve the process as opposed to mechanical milling?
    The laser is usually used not to cut out the shape of the frame but to add details to the acetate which would be too intricate otherwise. In this respect it's very useful and complements the regular milling techniques rather than replacing them.

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    Redhot Jumper I'm sorry you've lost all excitement about the industry .......................

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_S View Post

    Well sorry Chris but I would much rather have a handmade acetate frame. The extra time spent polishing can make a huge difference in particular.

    I'm sorry you've lost all excitement about the industry and seem to think the future is all Chinese mass produced crap. It's not, but keep repeating yourself if it makes you feel good.


    Hand made frames of top quality are beautifuls items, but just the name of hand made says that they are exclusive and expensive.

    However that type of frames has no chance in mass distribution, where the market seems to be going these days, looking into the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujiradesu View Post
    Actually...

    ...never mind my previous comment. I mustve completely made that up or misremembered the actual process.

    From System For Ophthalmic Dispensing:

    "Frame fronts and temples can be milled from slabs of cellulose acetate. They are finished in steps until being polished, and usually coated to protect frame material from sunlight..."

    So I guess the question for your family-run eyewear workmen is: how does laser milling improve the process as opposed to mechanical milling?
    Ok, the idea would be that of having the laser company laser cut the fronts and temples from the sheets to my design, then we would try to engrave them too in different ways to see if we can use the laser to achieve various finishes and effects as neither them or me have a clue if it will be at all possible.

    Then I would take the laser-cut and engraved parts to the lady whom will then hand grind the frames to achieve the desired sections; then she would tumble-smooth the parts and then flex them to the desired shape before actually putting all the parts together with the hinges.

    So the laser milling will cut cost down by being faster and more precise. Moreover I hope that the laser will allow me to create some cool finishes on the frames.

    I hope the above is a little clearer now. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post
    With some cellulose acetate blanks and some hand tools you can fabricate an ophthalmic frame. You don't need no milling machines or lasers to run off a couple of prototypes.
    I am aware of that but laser milling will ensure a faster and more precise production, before finishing the products by hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harry a saake View Post
    contact our resdent expert here on the optiboard, jerry huang very familiar with this and has made frames out of more things then you can think of
    Cool! Thanks for the advice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Handmade does not make them any better. or more valuable with the exception
    of turtle shell or natural horn frames, as well as wood, because they are made from small pieces.
    I could agree with you, however handmade is the way I would like to try and go about as the products would have to bear a "niche" feel to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_S View Post
    Well sorry Chris but I would much rather have a handmade acetate frame. The extra time spent polishing can make a huge difference in particular.

    I'm sorry you've lost all excitement about the industry and seem to think the future is all Chinese mass produced crap. It's not, but keep repeating yourself if it makes you feel good.

    I've designed sunglasses myself for an American brand which are hand made in Italy. If you've any questions please ask away! I've not been involved in the production but I do have a good understanding of that too.

    There's a French brand called Volte Face which uses laser cutting to beautiful effect. They are worth looking at for inspiration.

    What are you thinking of using the laser for? Or do you prefer to keep your ideas a secret? If so I understand.
    Thanks for your comment, I will check Volte Face right away.
    I am not sure what I can achieve with the use of laser as far as finishes are concerned, that is why I asked if anyone in the froum had any experience in this field.
    For sure I should be able to obtain some kind of bas-relief, but I am interested in finding out if I can have types of frosting finishes, rock like roughness, etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_S View Post
    The laser is usually used not to cut out the shape of the frame but to add details to the acetate which would be too intricate otherwise. In this respect it's very useful and complements the regular milling techniques rather than replacing them.
    These effects are exactly what I am looking to find out about! :D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Hand made frames of top quality are beautifuls items, but just the name of hand made says that they are exclusive and expensive.

    However that type of frames has no chance in mass distribution, where the market seems to be going these days, looking into the future.
    I understand, but I am interested in selling a limited number of products locally and online. So the "handmade label" suits my needs. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilciuchino View Post
    Ok, the idea would be that of having the laser company laser cut the fronts and temples from the sheets to my design, then we would try to engrave them too in different ways to see if we can use the laser to achieve various finishes and effects as neither them or me have a clue if it will be at all possible.

    Then I would take the laser-cut and engraved parts to the lady whom will then hand grind the frames to achieve the desired sections; then she would tumble-smooth the parts and then flex them to the desired shape before actually putting all the parts together with the hinges.

    So the laser milling will cut cost down by being faster and more precise. Moreover I hope that the laser will allow me to create some cool finishes on the frames.

    I hope the above is a little clearer now. :)

    Hi, I assume that you want to make rapid prototyping. A 30watts laser cutting machine should be powerful enough to cut through most plastic material within 8 mm thickness in any shape you like! However, the laser beam can only perform straight down cutting while most acetate frames are done by profiled cutting with curves and that is something cannot be done by laser! For example: We can easily find round edges near temple sides on the frame fronts, the curve of the bridge pads on the back, the inner rim grooves for lens insertion....can only be done by profiled cutters!

    For your application, I would suggest you to get all manual operated milling machines and profiled cutters( different shapes and curves) for frame front forming include inner eye shapes forming, outside frame shape forming. The laser cutter will be great to cut the required jigs to put on those milling machines since it is very precise & fast processing.

    Most manufacturers stamp out temple profiles by steel molds and punch out thounds of temples with that steel mold! For one of the kind design----you may prepare rectangle acetate blocks and mill them down in half of the temple thickness, milling 1/2 diameter of temple core groove and laminate temple core in between. After completely cured, laser cut out your temple designs. Nevertheless, you still need a temple shaving machine to shave off thickness especially near temple bending and tips.

    Instead of of getting a giant size tumbler, you can use a knife blade and sandpaper to smooth out sharp edges follow by buffing. All works must be done including fine polishing before processing laser engraving. Since acetate is one of the plastics and they do melt, light power from laser 10-15% , 100% speed, 100% DPI is recommended. For any heavy weight engraving or etching, I would use laser plus sandblasting. I hope my information is helpful. Cheers!
    Last edited by JERRY HUANG; 05-16-2017 at 02:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilciuchino View Post
    Thanks for your comment, I will check Volte Face right away.
    I am not sure what I can achieve with the use of laser as far as finishes are concerned, that is why I asked if anyone in the froum had any experience in this field.
    For sure I should be able to obtain some kind of bas-relief, but I am interested in finding out if I can have types of frosting finishes, rock like roughness, etc...



    From CorelDraw You can can design and assign a space on the finished temple to creat rock like roughness by either chemical attack on a thin layer of polycarbonate sheet to crack the surface, hand carving the depth of the crack and then sandblast to create the roughness. By duplicating the the pattern to another piece of acetate sheet, you may laser etching the frosting finishes. Tint all 3 pieces and maybe apply spray painting if needed. Laminate all 3 pieces together result in volcano effect

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    Quote Originally Posted by JERRY HUANG View Post
    Hi, I assume that you want to make rapid prototyping. A 30watts laser cutting machine should be powerful enough to cut through most plastic material within 8 mm thickness in any shape you like! However, the laser beam can only perform straight down cutting while most acetate frames are done by profiled cutting with curves and that is something cannot be done by laser! For example: We can easily find round edges near temple sides on the frame fronts, the curve of the bridge pads on the back, the inner rim grooves for lens insertion....can only be done by profiled cutters!

    For your application, I would suggest you to get all manual operated milling machines and profiled cutters( different shapes and curves) for frame front forming include inner eye shapes forming, outside frame shape forming. The laser cutter will be great to cut the required jigs to put on those milling machines since it is very precise & fast processing.

    Most manufacturers stamp out temple profiles by steel molds and punch out thounds of temples with that steel mold! For one of the kind design----you may prepare rectangle acetate blocks and mill them down in half of the temple thickness, milling 1/2 diameter of temple core groove and laminate temple core in between. After completely cured, laser cut out your temple designs. Nevertheless, you still need a temple shaving machine to shave off thickness especially near temple bending and tips.

    Instead of of getting a giant size tumbler, you can use a knife blade and sandpaper to smooth out sharp edges follow by buffing. All works must be done including fine polishing before processing laser engraving. Since acetate is one of the plastics and they do melt, light power from laser 10-15% , 100% speed, 100% DPI is recommended. For any heavy weight engraving or etching, I would use laser plus sandblasting. I hope my information is helpful. Cheers!
    Hi Jerry,
    thanks a lot for your comment.
    Sorry for the delay in replying but I have had limited access to the net whilst in Turkey.
    Anyway, all very good information. Thanks.

    Anyway, it is not matter of rapid prototyping as the final products will be made using laser to cut the outline and perhaps to create various finishes and detailing, then the parts will be hand finished, tumble-buffed and assembled by a lady who already creates her own frames.

    The use of a milling machine is not feasible at the moment for 2 main reasons: 1) its cost and 2) my 3D modelling skills would have to receive a huge boost since I have not designed in 3D software since Uni years... :D

    Have you had any experience with using acid paste or similar to achieve frosting or "special finishes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JERRY HUANG View Post
    From CorelDraw You can can design and assign a space on the finished temple to creat rock like roughness by either chemical attack on a thin layer of polycarbonate sheet to crack the surface, hand carving the depth of the crack and then sandblast to create the roughness. By duplicating the the pattern to another piece of acetate sheet, you may laser etching the frosting finishes. Tint all 3 pieces and maybe apply spray painting if needed. Laminate all 3 pieces together result in volcano effect
    Err...

    it all sounds very interesting but I am not sure I have understood the process...
    Would you have any pictures to share in order to allow me to fully understand the process and final finish? :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilciuchino View Post
    Hi Jerry,
    thanks a lot for your comment.
    Sorry for the delay in replying but I have had limited access to the net whilst in Turkey.
    Anyway, all very good information. Thanks.

    Anyway, it is not matter of rapid prototyping as the final products will be made using laser to cut the outline and perhaps to create various finishes and detailing, then the parts will be hand finished, tumble-buffed and assembled by a lady who already creates her own frames.

    The use of a milling machine is not feasible at the moment for 2 main reasons: 1) its cost and 2) my 3D modelling skills would have to receive a huge boost since I have not designed in 3D software since Uni years... :D

    Have you had any experience with using acid paste or similar to achieve frosting or "special finishes?

    Hi Ilciuchino

    You can do a lot with laser cutter/engraver! You can laser cut jigs in 2-D design and mount 2-D jigs onto the milling machines and using profile cutters( cutters are made with angles or curve shapes) to achieve 3-D sculpturing. The exactly same process to marble counter top!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JERRY HUANG View Post
    Hi Ilciuchino

    You can do a lot with laser cutter/engraver! You can laser cut jigs in 2-D design and mount 2-D jigs onto the milling machines and using profile cutters( cutters are made with angles or curve shapes) to achieve 3-D sculpturing. The exactly same process to marble counter top!
    Thanks Jerry for your comment.

    Right now I have finalise a deal with the laser company and I am going to spend some time with them to test files and laser power and speed.
    Then I also have the deal with the lady who is going to finish the eyewear up and assemble it.

    I cannot wait to see what the laser can achieve!
    I have prepared a lot of different file to test... :)

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    Hello everyone,

    I forgot to post some results achieved with a laser I had the pleasure to work with for a few hours.
    The first couple of hours I always got the same result, no matter which file I would feed the machine.
    Then, all of a sudden I managed to fine-tune the laser power and speed with the following results.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	test17.jpg 
Views:	50 
Size:	66.4 KB 
ID:	13668

    Mmmhhh, I seem to be able to post only 1 image...

    Anyway it is an encouraging starting point. :)


    Then I met with a CNC router technician and we will soon begin to carry out the first tests.

    I shall keep you updated.

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    Moreover, I have also met up with the guys from a FabLab in my hometown and I believe I will spend quite some time with them in the coming year! :)

    Oh, let me see if the system allows me to upload another laser test...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	test14.jpg 
Views:	26 
Size:	31.1 KB 
ID:	13669

    :)

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    Blue Jumper I'm sorry you've lost all excitement about the industry .............................

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_S View Post

    Well sorry Chris but I would much rather have a handmade acetate frame. The extra time spent polishing can make a huge difference in particular.

    I'm sorry you've lost all excitement about the industry and seem to think the future is all Chinese mass produced crap. It's not, but keep repeating yourself if it makes you feel good.



    Actually I made my first handmade frame from raw pieces of genuine turtle shell at the optical school lab of the Northampton Polytechnic in London a long time ago, by fusing the raw pieces together with steam to make the plate were the front could be cut out and properly finished.

    So I am not a novice in making frames from scrap with the most rare and expensive plastic material there ever was.

    I have not lost the excitement for the industry that is now changing at the fastest speed it ever has, since its introduction ages ago.

    The new trends in the optical trade should not be ignored as they will be forced on all of us within the next few years.

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