Price vs Happiness, in glasses

[Lab Insight]

FF lenses in most cases are not guaranteed to be better. This post is very concerning to me, given the responses thus far.

There are products that make a significant difference, but you do need to know how they work and how to fit them. Are they worth the price? Yes. Worth more than what they currently cost? Not really.

When I started in the industry 14 years ago, CR-39 FF progressive lenses were >$600/lens. The price has only dropped over the years. I would dare say most people in the industry fail to realize that FF has been around as long as it has. Optics are optics, and we all still have to do our job as well as people generations past. You still have to understand how curvature, fit, and lens quality will affect the final product. A FF lens at its simplest is an aspheric lens. Why would you use an aspheric lens? If you can answer that question, then you have begun the journey to understanding FF lenses.

Now, if you don't understand the what and why, and simply regurgitate marketing to your patient without understanding how to properly fit/dispense the products, then you better gear up for an angry patient.

When it comes to the marketing jargon with branded FF designs, don't believe everything you read.

[userod]

FF lenses in most cases are not guaranteed to be better. This post is very concerning to me, given the responses thus far.

There are products that make a significant difference, but you do need to know how they work and how to fit them. Are they worth the price? Yes. Worth more than what they currently cost? Not really.

When I started in the industry 14 years ago, CR-39 FF progressive lenses were >$600/lens. The price has only dropped over the years. I would dare say most people in the industry fail to realize that FF has been around as long as it has. Optics are optics, and we all still have to do our job as well as people generations past. You still have to understand how curvature, fit, and lens quality will affect the final product. A FF lens at its simplest is an aspheric lens. Why would you use an aspheric lens? If you can answer that question, then you have begun the journey to understanding FF lenses.

Now, if you don't understand the what and why, and simply regurgitate marketing to your patient without understanding how to properly fit/dispense the products, then you better gear up for an angry patient.

Well, aspheric is not a new concept

[userod]

When it comes to the marketing jargon with branded FF designs, don't believe everything you read.

What is there to believe then?

[Browman]

What is there to believe then?

Some of the "propaganda" in the trades is actually unbiased product review. I'd start there.

[lensmanmd]

Why do so many practices charge a premium for FF when the COGs are significantly lower than molded PALs? Greed! You can't tell me that it is in the cost of the equipment. C'mon SV pucks are so much less expensive than molded, even considering the clicks. Remake and spoilage costs are further reduced.

And yes, there are differences in FF designs, but I can tell you that there is little difference from one MFR to another. They all have budget to super premium designs, just like molded PALs. The biggest difference is the "on-demand" customization of FF vs the rigid molded. And just like molded PALs, it is up to the optician to determine what is best for the patient. Even the best of the FF with POW, if measured incorrectly, will not perform better than the entry level FF that is fitted properly. Just saying.

[userod]

Some of the "propaganda" in the trades is actually unbiased product review. I'd start there.

I probably would guess that the unbiased opinion doesn't have any case studies, just optical data to make assumptions from.

[Lab Insight]

What is there to believe then?

Although there are some subtle differences in design performance (wider corridor, reading etc.) what they really want you to believe is the amazing science, math and marketing behind their self claims.

I'm not saying it's all hogwash, it's just those subtle differences are highly exaggerated by them to justify the enormous inflated selling prices.

Think about it for a minute...all designs start on the same $3 blank (assuming clear CR39), get taped, blocked, generated via Satisloh or Schneider (the point at which the design is carved into the surface with the guidance of advanced software), straight to polish (careful not to rub off the design that just got created) and then finally off to coating with hundreds of other lenses.

Sure the algorithm is slightly more complex with more calculations. But other than that part of the manufacturing process, the rest is exactly the same including the coating process.

How does that justify the huge price gap between the $100 pair of lenses and $500 pair of lenses? It doesn't...but what it does do is allow the companies to pay for the enormous overhead and marketing costs while offering a full price range portfolio and saying only they have the best lenses available in the market.

Could you imagine if the government allowed car manufacturers to sell low and high end automobiles (which are highly tangible like Rx eyewear) to be sold to consumers with performance and safety statistics not verified by engineers and test tracks and were self claimed?

Just saying...

[Craig]

FF lenses in most cases are not guaranteed to be better. This post is very concerning to me, given the responses thus far.

There are products that make a significant difference, but you do need to know how they work and how to fit them. Are they worth the price? Yes. Worth more than what they currently cost? Not really.

When I started in the industry 14 years ago, CR-39 FF progressive lenses were >$600/lens. The price has only dropped over the years. I would dare say most people in the industry fail to realize that FF has been around as long as it has. Optics are optics, and we all still have to do our job as well as people generations past. You still have to understand how curvature, fit, and lens quality will affect the final product. A FF lens at its simplest is an aspheric lens. Why would you use an aspheric lens? If you can answer that question, then you have begun the journey to understanding FF lenses.

Now, if you don't understand the what and why, and simply regurgitate marketing to your patient without understanding how to properly fit/dispense the products, then you better gear up for an angry patient.

FYI, Free form lenses do not have to be aspheric and most are actually spherical. What does curvature, fit and lens quality have to do with with free form specifically? What is different between dispensing free form vs non digital?

I am the Founder of LenSync lenses and platform while also bringing free form to the US market from Japan 15 years ago.

[lensmanmd]

FYI, Free form lenses do not have to be aspheric and most are actually spherical.

To be quite honest, FF is an aspheric-atoric lens. Its just on the backside, not the front.

[Browman]

I probably would guess that the unbiased opinion doesn't have any case studies, just optical data to make assumptions from.

Product reviews don't tend to include case studies-- unless Consumer Reports has radically changed in the time since I last read it.

[DanLiv]

When it comes to the marketing jargon with branded FF designs, don't believe everything you read.

What is there to believe then?

The marketing jargon cuts both ways. Plenty independent lab reps hype their house brand lenses and AR as "just as good" as VX and Crizal, but for much less. I find that hard to believe too. At least with the branded products there is tons of research, white papers, and studies from which I can make my own judgments. And they are the companies doing the optical research, from which they derive new products, not copying existing products. With house product there is usually nothing *but* claims.

There are products that make a significant difference, but you do need to know how they work and how to fit them. Are they worth the price? Yes. Worth more than what they currently cost? Not really. Now, if you don't understand the what and why, and simply regurgitate marketing to your patient without understanding how to properly fit/dispense the products, then you better gear up for an angry patient.

Agreed. Optical products are tools that opticians use to craft vision. A poorly trained or unknowledgeable optician will not eek any value out of a high end FF progressive, these products are not the panacea for lack of optical skill. In the hands of a very skilled optician these are the tools that close the gap between very good and flawlessly comfortable vision. Practices that blindly throw the highest end products at everyone who will pay for it are just carpet bombing to make up for lack of optician skill. In the hands of an expert golfer the right high end club can make a discernible difference. In the hands of an average golfer it may make zero difference, except in the expense. If you don't understand the difference in the products, and what makes one better than another, then you are probably not going to be able to take full advantage of the best tools.

[Quince]

ALL of these labs will give free trial pairs. If they aren't then they sure better have some amazing stats. A rep can tell me how good a lens is until they are blue in the face, but I'll have patience and wait to get feedback from those trial pairs. That's proof enough for me.

[userod]

ALL of these labs will give free trial pairs. If they aren't then they sure better have some amazing stats. A rep can tell me how good a lens is until they are blue in the face, but I'll have patience and wait to get feedback from those trial pairs. That's proof enough for me.

I get what everyone is saying. It's a spaghetti meal with spices and no one knows for sure what exactly is in it but you know how to wrap your spoon or fork around it to consume it. Just thought I'd ask. I'm afraid I still don't know how to "be sure" other than a carpet bomb or a GPS guided hit (lens design) works for just, just about everyone.

I learned Sheard's criteria (I've completely forgotten how it works and probably spelled it wrong here) so I was wondering if there are any physiological tests that could measure the performance of the eye and the lens. But that would be one helluva study.

[Browman]

I get what everyone is saying. It's a spaghetti meal with spices and no one knows for sure what exactly is in it but you know how to wrap your spoon or fork around it to consume it. Just thought I'd ask. I'm afraid I still don't know how to "be sure" other than a carpet bomb or a GPS guided hit (lens design) works for just, just about everyone.

That's not what some of us have said at all. You've been referred to product reviews, white papers, and even seeking out free samples.

[Robert Martellaro]

I get what everyone is saying. It's a spaghetti meal with spices and no one knows for sure what exactly is in it but you know how to wrap your spoon or fork around it to consume it. Just thought I'd ask.

Someone's grandfather once said- you pay, you get. Still true. I thought I should mention that you should review your first year optometry "Optics of Ophthalmic Lenses" course...most of the answers you seek can be found there.

Best regards,

Robert Martellaro