Viva La France NOT!

[Jim Stone]

Remember that Essilor, a french company owns Varilux.

[Joann Raytar]

Yes, but they have offices here in the US and employ US citizens. Boycotting businesses based on their national base may have worked in the past but the world's economy has gotten too global for that to be effective without harming your own nation economically.

[Pete Hanlin]

Jo is correct, Essilor of America is a very large chunk of Essilor International.

Additionally, as far as I know all Essilor makes in France is lenses- not policy.

Finally, to whom do you propose everyone turn for their lenses? The other major companies are based in Japan, Germany (who is also against an invasion of Iraq), and Australia.

[Jim Stone]

yea, policy!

[Joann Raytar]

Besides, I don't think our government needs permission from France to do anything; they almost always seem to be the odd country out.

[Jim Stone]

I'm sorry. I just never liked Variluxes. It was personal. Has no place on this board.

[Jeff Trail]

Jim,

No need to say "sorry".. the nice thing about this board, Steve (and other moderators) hardly ever delete or put people into a corner..other than if it gets real personal (attacks) or mentioning "prices" :-) and using off color language more or less it's a free wheeling post'em as ya want site..I have yeat seen any debate go off to crazy (well some of the political stuff was out of control) but more or less anyone debating in any thread and you come or came across with coherant arguments it seems to always be fun from the "point counter point perspective..
More or less with this many people in a "fish bowl" all being in optics every one of us could toss a horror story out about every lens supplier, optical, lab, chain etc., etc...Posting at times it might be hard to NOT let a previous frustration show through from dealing with a product or supplier...
Jo is right in one sense, we are a "global" economy now, and even our little "optical world" has shifted by the lens suppliers going more towards direct contact with the public pushing product by name brand.. some people like the "free advertising" some do not.. post away is my motto.. if something has you irked, I found that chances are somewhere and someone on this site has probably experienced the same thing or might have went through it and found an answer that might save others a lot of trouble.. I'm always surprised by the people who just read our posts and get E-M's ever so often with follow up questions from a posting..
I guess I'm as guilty as most for getting in there and bashing away at times (more so since I one of the minority Dem's on the board :)) but ya never know til ya toss it out there..

Jeff "being shy is ONE thing I was never labeled with" Trail

NOW..if you wanted to say, bullheaded, know-it-all, pain in the a$$, opinionated ..THAT might hit closer to the mark :p

[Pete Hanlin]

I'm sorry. I just never liked Variluxes.
That's okay... If Essilor/Varilux has done something to turn you off as a customer, you have every right not to like our product or the country. Just as long as its not only 'cause we're French!
;)

[John R]

Pete Hanlin said:
Additionally, as far as I know all Essilor makes in France is lenses- not policy.

Finally, to whom do you propose everyone turn for their lenses? The other major companies are based in Japan, Germany (who is also against an invasion of Iraq), and Australia.

Nice one Pete...Boycotts is not the way to go...Unless you say
Dont buy Iraq's oil...
Essilor could just as well say stuff America as they rule the market in France, almost to the extent of a monopoly.

To be honest with a Mod head on this thread would be better in the converstaion forum.

[Joann Raytar]

Jim Stone said:
I'm sorry. I just never liked Variluxes. It was personal. Has no place on this board.

You are allowed not to like Varilux. :D

I thought you were taking up the sword against France's politics in the name of Optics. And you sounded so rebellious. ;) We could say Viva La American Optical but I believe they are made outside of the United States.

If it makes you feel better, I don't like the Panamics I am currently wearing and wish I had a pair of Comforts, Naturals or Adaptars. (Pete, please don't tell me Panamic, Comfort and Natural are the same lenses and it's all psychological.) Of course, I am not bright enough to go back to what I am comfortable with and I think Pentax AF or SolaMax may be the next lens to try on myself.

[Pete Hanlin]

(Pete, please don't tell me Panamic, Comfort and Natural are the same lenses and it's all psychological.)
Well, this sort of takes a side road to the original thread, but...

Nope, they are all different lenses. Although extensive wearer tests show >60% of wearers prefer Panamic new design, that means 30% or so still prefer Comfort. Perhaps you're just one of these folks.

;) Perhaps one day when I'm old enough to need PALs, I'll be able to relate better...

[Jim Stone]

I just don't like any of Essilor products period. I also am very disapointed in Frances chicken spit policy. My point now is that I should not have posted the the two things together on this board. Never worn Verilux. It's the poeple you have to deal with and their way of doing bussiness. I think Jo will like Solamax. I had a pair once and I liked it a bunch. By the way I also dissapointed with Sola going into Wholesale.

[David Wilson]

Pete,
I agree with what you said in your first post (and most others) but I'm curious why Australia was listed with the other countries. It tends implies that Australia has not supported the US. I'm not sure where Japan stands either.

Regards
David

[Tim Hunter]

No particular feelings either way on Essilor, surely though if you disagree with someone's opinion then reasoned argument is more appropriate than boycotts.

I can't say I'm partial to the French's view of the world (although I have to give them their due it's very France orientated)but on Iraq it is a perfectly reasonable refection of how many people in the world feel.

It's not my view of the world but I've never felt that an alternative viewpoint to my own is necessarily a bad thing, although I feel free to ignore it if I think I'm right!:D

[Pete Hanlin]

It tends implies that Australia has not supported the US. I'm not sure where Japan stands either.
Actually, Australian PM Howard is a staunch ally of W's stance on Iraq. With an election around the corner, this is denting his popularity, since most Australians do not favor a war (at least from what I've read). I have to admit, I do like the way John Howard carries himself. I believe he said something to the effect of- "If the people don't like the job I'm doing, they'll kick me out at the next election- that's what democracy's all about!"

Japan, with only a couple dozen nationals in Iraq, is busy right now worrying about its neighbor- North Korea. From what I've seen of Japanese PM Koizumi, he isn't necessarily against U.S. action, but wants to make sure the U.N. provides a resolution to back it up if we go in.

I didn't mean to imply that Australia and Japan were against the U.S. regarding Iraq. However, I was trying to make the point that the alternatives to buying product from the French leaves you buying products from some other foreign country (since there are really no major American-based lens manufacturers). With the possible exception of Australia, I believe we've probably been at war with the countries of all the other manufacturers at some time or other.

In fact, even though a company like Essilor may have its international HQ in France, its products are actually manufactured all over the world- the U.S., Ireland, Mexico, Asia, etc. We simply live in a world that is so integrated that it is impossible to boycott products from a particular country (well, except maybe Cuban cigars- but that boycott is a joke perpetuated by each new admin).

Concerning alternative viewpoints, they are a definitely a good thing. For instance, if it weren't for people who "don't like Varilux," there would never be any change in the way Essilor does business or interacts with accounts. If there weren't countries who challenged the concept of going to war, there would be no need to solidify our own resolve on why we are going in the first place. Occasionally, heaven forbid, alternative viewpoints may even cause one to change his/her intended course of action or thinking (I know, I know, but I've heard this actually does happen from time to time).
;)

[Tim Hunter]

Liked the Voltairte quote, I'd attempt the one from the French General at the Charge of the Light Brigade but I'm sure I'd get it wrong.

I'll stick with plus ca change...

[EyeManFla]

Actually, I'm beginning to change my mind about the French.

The has got to be somethin great about a people who don't bathe for weeks, eat runny goat cheese and love Jerry Lewis!

There's just gotta be....????!!!!