Help...new to optical manufacturing

**soullaidbare77** · 09-11-2016, 09:34 PM

Hey all. I am fairly new to the optical world and still learning but am eager to learn as much as I can. I am in the manufacturing side. Currently, with all the computer technology available, lenses are manufactured based on printouts with calculations, tools, etc. provided by a computer. I would love to learn how to determine the base/cross curve of a tool based on a patient's prescription. Although computer technology is great, this is something that I think would be valuable to know. Would anyone be willing to pass along some valuable knowledge to someone eager to learn?

**Chris Ryser** · 09-11-2016, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by soullaidbare77

I would love to learn how to determine the base/cross curve of a tool based on a patient's prescription. Although computer technology is great, this is something that I think would be valuable to know. Would anyone be willing to pass along some valuable knowledge to someone eager to learn?

What you want to know is a total course on the optical as you do not seem to know the basic basics.

Buy some books and start learning and start working in a lab and learn the basics.

**soullaidbare77** · 09-12-2016, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by Chris Ryser

What you want to know is a total course on the optical as you do not seem to know the basic basics.

Buy some books and start learning and start working in a lab and learn the basics.

Thanks for the reply Chris. But you are assuming I do not know the basics. Although I am fairly new to optical manufacturing, I do know the basics of optics. Although I may not have the experience that some may have, I do have a few years of it and have spent a lot of time studying and learning and was just eager to learn more, such as, is their a formula, etc.? Telling someone they don't know anything and they need to go learn, isn't really conducive to them learning...lol. And telling me to start working in a lab.....well, I did say that I was in the manufacturing side, right? "I am in the manufacturing side. Currently, with all the computer technology available, lenses are manufactured based on printouts with calculations, tools, etc. provided by a computer. I would love to learn how to determine the base/cross curve of a tool based on a patient's prescription."

**optical24/7** · 09-12-2016, 06:06 AM

Get a copy of Optical Formula's Tutorial by Ellen Stoner. It has a lot of basic to complex formulas. Good luck on your journey!

**wmcdonald** · 09-12-2016, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by soullaidbare77

Thanks for the reply Chris. But you are assuming I do not know the basics. Although I am fairly new to optical manufacturing, I do know the basics of optics. Although I may not have the experience that some may have, I do have a few years of it and have spent a lot of time studying and learning and was just eager to learn more, such as, is their a formula, etc.? Telling someone they don't know anything and they need to go learn, isn't really conducive to them learning...lol. And telling me to start working in a lab.....well, I did say that I was in the manufacturing side, right? "I am in the manufacturing side. Currently, with all the computer technology available, lenses are manufactured based on printouts with calculations, tools, etc. provided by a computer. I would love to learn how to determine the base/cross curve of a tool based on a patient's prescription."

It sounds as if he reacted correctly, because this is the very first thing anyone really in manufacturing should have been taught if you are on the technical side of manufacturing ophthalmic lenses. What you describe is the "basics", so relax.......he is not the only would who would consider your question strange. Someone in lens manufacturing would not last long not knowing this information. You will find Chris a valuable source of information if you listen.

Now to your "basic" question: There are a number of sites that can describe what you wish to learn. Google is your friend. You best investment comes from Dr. Clifford Brooks, who offers a wonderful text you can easily find called Understanding Lens Surfacing. Science Direct actually has an online version that can be downloaded in PDF for a nominal amount of money. That would be a good investment for you, so take a look at it. Good luck in learning this material, but some additional advice......find a mentor who can help you get your hands dirty in the lab. The theory is great, but you need to feel it to fully understand the process.

**optical24/7** · 09-12-2016, 06:40 AM

77, Warren has some good advice in the post above, but I understand your frustration. A mentor can only teach you what they personally know. Unless you have one that started in the 70's, it will be difficult to find a good mentor in a surfacing lab. When I got out of wholesale labs in the early 80's we were already starting to use simple formula computers.

You'll be left with self instruction to learn ophthalmic formulas. The book Warren recommends and the one I mentioned will get you a great start. I'll add that imho, prentice rule is one of the most basic, but most used in a lab.

( The above is no knock on you lab guys that aren't 60 that know your stuff. If you are in that category you either had a great mentor or are self taught or a combo of both.)

**soullaidbare77** · 09-12-2016, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by optical24/7

Get a copy of Optical Formula's Tutorial by Ellen Stoner. It has a lot of basic to complex formulas. Good luck on your journey!

Thanks so much! I will definitely get that!

**Don Gilman** · 09-12-2016, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by wmcdonald

It sounds as if he reacted correctly, because this is the very first thing anyone really in manufacturing should have been taught if you are on the technical side of manufacturing ophthalmic lenses. What you describe is the "basics", so relax.......he is not the only would who would consider your question strange. Someone in lens manufacturing would not last long not knowing this information. You will find Chris a valuable source of information if you listen.

Now to your "basic" question: There are a number of sites that can describe what you wish to learn. Google is your friend. You best investment comes from Dr. Clifford Brooks, who offers a wonderful text you can easily find called Understanding Lens Surfacing. Science Direct actually has an online version that can be downloaded in PDF for a nominal amount of money. That would be a good investment for you, so take a look at it. Good luck in learning this material, but some additional advice......find a mentor who can help you get your hands dirty in the lab. The theory is great, but you need to feel it to fully understand the process.

+10 on the Clifford Brooks book. Been doing surfacing for many years but still refer to it frequently.

**soullaidbare77** · 09-12-2016, 08:08 AM

Thanks WMcdonald! I will look into those books as well! I am all about learning. I understand that that may be very basic for lab manufacturing...that's why I said, I am new to the manufacturing side but am working it. The problem is, as Optical 24/7 stated, I am being taught everything by computer. I want to learn the MANUAL side of it. Unfortunately, I don't have anyone that's been around from the early days that knows they manual side before computers. It's frustrating cause everyone relies on the computer in my lab. I know the basic of figuring out the tool base and cross but not exact. Basically what i was taught in this lab was to subtract the sphere from the base then add the cylinder for a plus lens. Add the sphere to the base and then add the cylinder for the cross for a minus rx, and that tends to give us a round about but not exact. I want to learn the exact way/formula....

Thanks for the book recommendation!

**ml43** · 09-12-2016, 02:27 PM

you need to figure out what index your laps/machine is calibrated to.

you also need to know true curve of your blanks.

otherwise knowing the manual side won't help. This is mostly why computers are used. It'll adjust for true curve, material index, lap index, and machine error. This is especially important if you work in a digital lab.

**soullaidbare77** · 09-12-2016, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by ml43

you need to figure out what index your laps/machine is calibrated to.

you also need to know true curve of your blanks.

otherwise knowing the manual side won't help. This is mostly why computers are used. It'll adjust for true curve, material index, lap index, and machine error. This is especially important if you work in a digital lab.

Thanks! The true curve of the lenses, material index, I know. I would have to find out what the index of the laps are. Thanks!

**Kujiradesu** · 09-14-2016, 09:46 AM

Not sure that anyone mentioned this: In addition to Understanding Lens Surfacing by Clifford Brooks there is a companion workbook that you may find useful for some hands-on learning. It has practice jobs and examples that you can actually mess around with in your lab.

**A cursory look at the Elsevier website and Amazon doesn't yield any results but if you dig you might be able to find one. My college had two copies and I found some of the exercises helpful.**

**Wayland** · 09-20-2016, 03:38 PM

Does anyone know where the information would be at for the new digital lenses? I am just curious how complicated those formulas would be.

**Don Gilman** · 09-20-2016, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by wayland

does anyone know where the information would be at for the new digital lenses? I am just curious how complicated those formulas would be.

very!

**ml43** · 09-20-2016, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Wayland

Does anyone know where the information would be at for the new digital lenses? I am just curious how complicated those formulas would be.

Without a foundation in multi variable calculus, trig, and differential equations,
the equations themselves would be decently difficult to understand.

You can manipulate them algebraically for fun, but even then.
You would really want to let software handle it to get accurate result in a reasonable amount of time.

Hopefully that makes sense.

PM me if you want a more in-depth answer/resources.

**cajzmere** · 10-13-2016, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Wayland

Does anyone know where the information would be at for the new digital lenses? I am just curious how complicated those formulas would be.

I would guess they are proprietary and very carefully kept.
And I liked Brooks and Boorish's "System on Ophthalmic dispensing"...starts easy and gets more technical as you read. I recommend to all apprentices and newbies. Amazon's got older edition used ones cheap.