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Thread: Illegal Internet Dispensing ..................................

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    Blue Jumper Illegal Internet Dispensing ..................................

    Illegal Internet Dispensing

    THE RISKS OF INTERNET DISPENSING
    Don’t Pay The Price…With Your Vision
    Purchasing Eyewear on the Internet

    Online purchasing has made its way into virtually every aspect of life. In many cases, shopping on the Internet is easy and convenient and provides a quality, reliable service. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. The attraction of buying prescription eyewear over the Internet is that it may be faster or cheaper than visiting an optical store. But at what cost?Buying prescription eyewear is not like shopping for books or clothes. In Ontario, only Regulated, Licensed Opticians, Optometrists and Ophthalmologists are legally permitted to dispense prescription eyeglasses and contact lenses.

    UNREGULATED SELLING OF PRESCRIPTION
    EYEWEAR OVER THE INTERNET IN ONTARIO
    IS NOT JUST UNSAFE. IT IS ALSO ILLEGAL.

    See more at: =========>
    http://www.coptont.org/PUBLICINFO/in...dispensing.php


    However: Is it illegal to purchase them on-line ?
    Last edited by Chris Ryser; 07-14-2016 at 12:54 AM.
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    Blue Jumper

    March 03, 2016

    EYEGLASS AND CONTACT LENS PRESCRIBING AND DISPENSING REGULATIONS BY PROVINCE and Territories


    PROVINCE/TERRITORY GLASSES CONTACT LENSES British Columbia A patient may obtain an eye glass prescription from an optometrist, physician or ophthalmologist.

    A patient may also obtain specifications for eye glasses from a sight testing optician. Both the optical prescription and sight test results must include a measurement of the interpupillary distance. The patient can either use the eye glass prescription or the sight test specifications to purchase eyeglasses anywhere that eyeglasses are available. Dispensing is deregulated in British Columbia. A patient must have an optical prescription or specifications from a sight test to initiate a CL fitting. A patient must have an initial CL fitting done by an optometrist, physician, ophthalmologist or optician. Initial CLs may only be dispensed by the above regulated professionals. Replacement CLs can be dispensed indefinitely by anyone including internet CL sites.

    See regulations for all Provinces: ==========>
    https://opto.ca/sites/default/files/..._version_2.pdf
    Chris Ryser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Illegal Internet Dispensing

    THE RISKS OF INTERNET DISPENSING
    Don’t Pay The Price…With Your Vision
    Purchasing Eyewear on the Internet

    Online purchasing has made its way into virtually every aspect of life. In many cases, shopping on the Internet is easy and convenient and provides a quality, reliable service. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. The attraction of buying prescription eyewear over the Internet is that it may be faster or cheaper than visiting an optical store. But at what cost?Buying prescription eyewear is not like shopping for books or clothes. In Ontario, only Regulated, Licensed Opticians, Optometrists and Ophthalmologists are legally permitted to dispense prescription eyeglasses and contact lenses.

    UNREGULATED SELLING OF PRESCRIPTION
    EYEWEAR OVER THE INTERNET IN ONTARIO
    IS NOT JUST UNSAFE. IT IS ALSO ILLEGAL.

    See more at: =========>
    http://www.coptont.org/PUBLICINFO/in...dispensing.php


    However: Is illegal to purchase them on-line ?
    Yes Chris it is illegal to purchase glasses on the internet in Ontario.
    That's why that information is on our college's website, The College of Opticians of Ontario.

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

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    Redhot Jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post

    Yes Chris it is illegal to purchase glasses on the internet in Ontario.
    That's why that information is on our college's website, The College of Opticians of Ontario.


    So what has the College of Opticians of Ontario done so far to stop these illegal shipments by internet seller Clearly/Coastal out of Vancouver ?

    There are also a few more out of Quebec and Ontario, what has you college done about them?
    Chris Ryser
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    If it were illegal to purchase eyeglasses on line then the college would have to regulate all purchasers. The college of course can not regulate purchasers. They only regulate dispensing and they really only regulate members.

    The wording about buying on line is actually a recommendation to do so. They talk more about the reasons to buy on line rather than focusing on the reasons why not
    Chris Ryser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    If it were illegal to purchase eyeglasses on line then the college would have to regulate all purchasers. The college of course can not regulate purchasers. They only regulate dispensing and they really only regulate members.

    The wording about buying on line is actually a recommendation to do so. They talk more about the reasons to buy on line rather than focusing on the reasons why not
    Chris;

    If you think that the following (taken from the College of Opticians website) are reasons to buy glasses online then you have totally lost it. No reasonably intelligent person could construe that the following statements are an endorsement to buy glasses online so why do you think they are?

    UNREGULATED SELLING OF PRESCRIPTION
    EYEWEAR OVER THE INTERNET IN ONTARIO
    IS NOT JUST UNSAFE. IT IS ALSO ILLEGAL.The information provided below refers only to those circumstances where prescription eyewear is purchased over the Internet from someone who is not authorized to dispense – that is, from someone who is not a Licensed Optician, Optometrist of Ophthalmologist. Purchasing prescription eyeglasses and contact lenses from someone you do not know brings with it a range of risks. Some of these risks relate to the health of the eye (e.g. improperly fitted contact lenses can cause injury to the cornea) and some relate to the effectiveness of the eyewear (e.g. eyeglasses with lenses that do not match a patient’s eye measurements can impair vision). Improperly fitted eyewear can interfere with your ability to see, causing impaired depth perception, blurred vision, falls and other accidents, and worsened near or far-sightedness.
    The following is just a partial list of the risks and problems posed by Internet dispensing:

    • You have no guarantee that you are dealing with a Licensed Optician, Optometrist or Ophthalmologist. Vision care via the internet may be and sometimes is provided by inexperienced people who are not members of one of the regulated health professions.
    • Opticians have the ability to recognize health issues dealing with the cornea and to refer a patient to another health professional before any serious harm can come to the eye.
    • Opticians are also trained to take proper anatomical measurements, make appropriate initial and ongoing adjustments to eyewear, and to perform thorough pre- and post-assessment of contact lenses to ensure vision health and safety, comfort, peak performance and clear accurate vision. You cannot get this kind of care over the Internet.
    • Eyeglasses and contact lenses need to be fitted to each individual patient based on measurements of the eye and face. This also cannot be done over the Internet.
    • Improperly fitted eyeglasses and contact lenses can cause headaches, dizziness, and nausea.
    • Contact lenses are “medical devices” regulated by Health Canada. When you purchase contact lenses over the Internet, you may get a product that does not meet Health Canada’s requirements for safety, effectiveness and quality.
    • You may get a product that has been recalled due to safety concerns.
    • You may get a counterfeit product (e.g. a lower-quality product that is falsely labelled as being a higher-quality brand).
    • You may receive a product that has not been stored properly. Contact lenses need to be protected from freezing and heat. When you order contacts over the Internet, you do not know where the product has been stored or for how long.
    • You may receive a product that has expired. Contact lenses have an expiry date, after which it is not necessarily safe to use the product.

    Prescription eyewear is not “one size fits all”. Opticians are front line, regulated health care professionals who serve as public educators on eye care issues including disease prevention and detection and are trained to answer patients’ questions on a broad range of eye care issues, from dry eyes to corrective surgery. Opticians determine what kinds of lenses and frames are required based on a patient’s prescription, needs and individual circumstances. Opticians also receive training in eye health problems and may recognize an issue that should be treated by an Optometrist or Ophthalmologist.

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    Blue Jumper This is no "Mickey Mouse" competition this is serious big business ..................

    Golfnorth ..................very nice post.

    However you still have to face the facts, that the internet sellers are hurting our established business more as time flies by.

    Furthermore the largest ones of all of them and the fastest growing ones belong to:

    1) to your largest worldwide spectacle frame manufacturer
    Luxottioca

    2) The second largest ones worldwide are owned by your largest lens manufacturer Essilor.

    This is no "Mickey Mouse" competition this is serious big business and they know what they are doing, and are doing it right. Furthermore they have plenty of capital behind them to get them out of any arising problems or kill the problem before they get too large to handle them.
    Last edited by Chris Ryser; 07-14-2016 at 12:51 AM.
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Golfnorth ..................very nice post.

    However you still have to face the facts, that the internet sellers are hurting our established business more as time flies by.

    Furthermore the largest ones of all of them and the fastest growing ones belong to:

    1) to your largest worldwide spectacle frame manufacturer
    Luxottioca

    2) The second largest ones worldwide are owned by your largest lens manufacturer Essilor.

    This is no "Mickey Mouse" competition this is serious big business and they know what they are doing, and are doing it right. Furthermore they have plenty of capital behind them to get them out of any arising problems or kill the problem before they get too large to handle them.
    Hi Chris.......I agree with you that the online phenomenon is eroding market share from traditional players and I agree that Lux and E are major players in the online sites. That is why I personally do not deal with E and only carry one line from Lux and I believe that every optician should make a decision that fits with their ideals and situation.
    To answer your question from an earlier post as to what is my college doing about it........probably not a lot or nothing at all as IMO they don't have the financial resources to fight Lux and E.

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

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    Blue Jumper the online phenomenon is eroding market share ..........................

    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post

    Hi Chris.......I agree with you that the online phenomenon is eroding market share from traditional players and I agree that Lux and E are major players in the online sites. ..................

    To answer your question from an earlier post as to what is my college doing about it........probably not a lot or nothing at all as IMO they don't have the financial resources to fight Lux and E.

    Thank you Golfnorth.

    The internet trade is now at a point of no return in every field it has started over the last 10 years. It is gaining commercial activity by the day on a worldwide basis.

    The populations older generations that were living a life without internet, are slowly dying off, and are being replaced by people that grew up with computers, and the latest ones, that walk in the park or town with their latest cell phones in their hand not seeing nature any more.

    We all have to admit to these facts and will and must make some changes in our commercial life, and adapt to it, or end up as a has been.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    Re: unregulated selling is illegal in Ontario

    Tell that to the Supreme Court judges in BC and Quebec and the governments backing these entrepreneurs with your tax dollars.

    Where are the ads telling the public it's illegal ?

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    Blue Jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post

    To answer your question from an earlier post as to what is my college doing about it........probably not a lot or nothing at all as IMO they don't have the financial resources to fight Lux and E.

    The optical associations in the old days were heavily supported by Imperial Optical in the good old days.

    When Imperial went the way of no return, Essilor stepped in and took its place, so they have some say there.

    I my own opinion I think that they do not even want to fight for it.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    Blue Jumper This is an non reversible trend ................................

    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post

    Re: unregulated selling is illegal in Ontario

    Tell that to the Supreme Court judges in BC and Quebec and the governments backing these entrepreneurs with your tax dollars.

    Where are the ads telling the public it's illegal ?

    I get bombarded with online optical ads on the internet. They are on all sites that have a high Alexa ranking and take ads.

    If you could advertise it on a local level you can reach a much wider area on the internet which is a free for all.

    This is an non reversible trend with some commercial giants like Sears and others closing down their stores.
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    Any Optician, that is not new to the biz, can tell you that the average consumer has a hard time picking an eyeglass frame when allowed to try on frames in a store with hundreds if not thousands of frames.
    Its beyond me why anyone would be happy with something they think might look good without trying it on. The younger consumer buys online to SAVE $...because in this day and age, that consumer often doesn't have the income. I own and operate an independent dispensary in a mall. Retail dispensing has changed...trying to adapt to that change is the hard part. The global economy is recessionary, if not depressionary depending on where you live.
    We have been fighting the 2 for 1 for more than 25 years. why?? I have now sourced frame and lenses that allow me to make a sale with a profit on almost all levels. Its just mindset that stands in the way.I eye test independently with the aid of
    an eyelogic system, well almost independently, as I am above board by submitting my results to an Ophthalmologist...many don't. Internet quality eyewear is the lowest in most cases. The consumer that wears progressive lenses is now my bread and butter. They are the toughest challenge, and the internet will not challenge this.

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    If multiple judges won't drink the koolaid and the public won't drink the koolaid then there is probably something wrong with the koolaid.

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    Blue Jumper the public won't drink the koolaid then there is probably something wrong with the...

    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post

    If multiple judges won't drink the koolaid and the public won't drink the koolaid then there is probably something wrong with the koolaid.

    The Koo laid an egg, and the egg hatched ............and they named the chick
    "Internet", a very weird name.

    However Internet grew up at double or triple speed. However nobody ever thought that Internet was changing the world on a commercial level in just a few years but it has been very successful so far.

    Guess how conservative the optical retail trade has been forever and has been thinking everything would go on forever in the way as it has done for over a 100 years.
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    If, when you look around, you find that your province is the most highly regulated, then you should expect your situation to move in the other direction. Especially if there is a huge differential. It may be scary to you but the odds of Ontario deregulating is just about 100%

    I live in a completely unregulated US state, and always have, so I come from an opposing world. It is competitive but everyone finds a way to make a living. You need to be good at something. A good doc, a good dispenser, a good lab optician, or a good salesperson or manager (who's competent at something else too). Hell, I know a few docs who can't refract worth a damn. Literally, they have no idea how to refract, but they either sell well or manage well. So, they make a living.

    If your license is the only thing keeping you in business then you are going to have a problem. Not suggesting that you aren't competent, but when deregulation comes around, you need a 'cowboy' attitude.

    Make people see...for money. That's how it works in "no-regulation-land". You will be fine.
    Fourteen of my family members (including: aunts, uncles, cousins, parents, grandparents...and a great uncle) are, or have been in optical and...that's just crazytown at Christmas

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    Well said Visionairy.

    Get educated to do something exceptionally well, don't rely on licensing boards.

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    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Regulation without enforcement is worthless. Between regulation and enforcement there exists a whole world of monkey business. Money is the mothers milk of Monkey business. Need I say more.

    Unless my Canadian brothers and sisters come to realize this the band will continue to play the same old song and it will be "monkey business" as usual.

    In order to move things along you have to "grease" the skids. That's true in Nicaragua, North Korea, China, The USA and Canada.

    Make these "Colleges" or whatever you call them an offer that they can't refuse.

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    Redhot Jumper The offers have been made and kept up by the worlds largest optical corporation

    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post

    Make these "Colleges" or whatever you call them an offer that they can't refuse.
    The offers have been made and kept up by the worlds largest optical corporation already many years ago.

    North America has been their commercial policy training ground forever, because there was never any professional unity at any level.

    The internet eyeglass seller are popping up on every continent at a fast rate and have some extremely good ratings.
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    Blue Jumper The consumer that wears progressive lenses is now my bread and butter ..............

    Quote Originally Posted by mike.elmes View Post

    The consumer that wears progressive lenses is now my bread and butter. They are the toughest challenge, and the internet will not challenge this.

    ............you got a good point here and I hope it working out fine.

    What is you position to change your billing for product at lower prices, but charge for professional services according to experience and education, instead of selling at a package price ?
    Chris Ryser
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