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Thread: Crappier Zyls

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter ak47's Avatar
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    Crappier Zyls

    More and more over the past few years, I have found that many plastic frames can barely hold any adjustment at all, even from manufacturers that previously had solid zyls (including Lux). Is MAZZUCCHELLI still being used and have they lowered their standards? Which manufacturers do you find can actually hold an adjustment other than Cazal, Kio Yamato, ProDesign?

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter SharonB's Avatar
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    I find that the problem is not so much the manufacturers, but the material we all call "zyl", but may in fact be injection molded propionate, or a myriad of other materials that resemble zyl on the surface. Mazzuchelli zyl has been the gold standard for years. It is not injection molded. It is more costly. Propionate and polyamide (a nylon derivative) frames now flood the market because they can be made less expensively. An older optician can touch those materials and immediately tell the difference. That's because they cut their teeth on cellulose nitrate (don't ask.... a little heat and POOF it's in flames), and the 40+ years ago introduction of epoxy-based Optyl. I'm not trying to be snobby here, but the longer you've been in the business, the more you've seen materials evolve. We're a whole generation of opticians who have managed to ruin a "zyl" frame at least once. Especially when it wasn't ZYL.
    Lost and confused in an optical wonderland!

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    Ghost in the OptiMachine Quince's Avatar
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    Gucci Gucci Gucci! LOVE how when you apply heat the finish doesn't melt off (Tiffany, Bvlgari, Prada) or the frame doesn't explode (Nike, Oakley.) There is a reason I've been stocking up on the new craze of Matte finish. It doesn't look like a year old scuffed up frame after the first adjustment. I'm feeling your pain!
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quince View Post
    Gucci Gucci Gucci! LOVE how when you apply heat the finish doesn't melt off (Tiffany, Bvlgari, Prada) or the frame doesn't explode (Nike, Oakley.) There is a reason I've been stocking up on the new craze of Matte finish. It doesn't look like a year old scuffed up frame after the first adjustment. I'm feeling your pain!
    I love guccis also, both the optyls and other lines. I'm worried when Safilo is not responsible for distro my shop might lose them though. I will wait and see!

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    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Too young to remember Swan frames? Those Jimmy Connor's and Dorothy Hamill's were something!!!

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    Ghost in the OptiMachine Quince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    I love guccis also, both the optyls and other lines. I'm worried when Safilo is not responsible for distro my shop might lose them though. I will wait and see!
    One would think direct distribution would be a good thing, but I have my concerns as well. I sure hope Gucci quality stays true through the change over.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak47 View Post
    More and more over the past few years, I have found that many plastic frames can barely hold any adjustment at all, even from manufacturers that previously had solid zyls (including Lux). Is MAZZUCCHELLI still being used and have they lowered their standards? Which manufacturers do you find can actually hold an adjustment other than Cazal, Kio Yamato, ProDesign?
    Mikli, Lafont, Masunaga(titanium core), Seraphin/OGI, to name a few. I also carry two of the above mentioned lines, which are great products including O&X.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

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    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Redhot Jumper Next time you purchase frames from a rep ...........................

    Next time you purchase frames from a rep, let him state on the order form what material the frames are made in.

    ................then you can take the precautions necessary how to treat them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Next time you purchase frames from a rep, let him state on the order form what material the frames are made in.

    ................then you can take the precautions necessary how to treat them.
    most have no clue...they are just sales...most don't even have frames, just ipads. Drives me nuts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mervinek View Post
    most have no clue...they are just sales...most don't even have frames, just ipads. Drives me nuts.
    The same statement could be made about most opticians out there.....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_Garza View Post
    The same statement could be made about most opticians out there.....
    More true than not; an optician should not have to rely on the information of a frame rep but what their own eyes and hands tell them. Many of these Mcticians are products of the big box or the Doc's who hire them.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

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    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Redhot Jumper What sad statements. ...........................

    Quote Originally Posted by mervinek View Post

    most have no clue...they are just sales...most don't even have frames, just ipads. Drives me nuts.

    What sad statements. What used to be the must for an optician, seems to have evaporated into thin air. Material knowledge was one the most important points.

    Today it seems to be just the most expensive materials and not what they are made with.

  13. #13
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Zyle, or more properly Zylonite is a trade name of cellulose acetate. It was a welcome replacement for cellulose nitrate which was quite flammable. Zyle soon became the name of any plastic frame. New injection molded frames were introduced such as Optyl and Nylor which were made from different polymers. However many of the unwashed eye glass sellers continued to call any frame not made from metal as Zyle and the term became synonymous with "plastic frames."

    In todays marketplace a "zyle" frame could be manufactured from cellulose acetate or licorice. God only knows. There are some methods of determining what a given frame is made of but in todays "global" marketplace quality can vary dramatically.

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    All frames should be marked with a code on the stem that indicates exactly of what they are made, and the code is from a list that identifies materials, and is created and used by the profession. Its absurd that someone makes a frame and one has to guess at exactly what material one is dealing with when a client comes in. I mean, seriously, does any other article that people wear not declare what they are made from? Clothes have to say exactly what they are, why should frames be any different?

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    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Blue Jumper However the profession has no idea what the good and not so good is ...............

    Quote Originally Posted by Lelarep View Post

    All frames should be marked with a code on the stem that indicates exactly of what they are made, and the code is from a list that identifies materials, and is created and used by the profession.

    However the profession has no idea what the good and not so good of the best materials are. It is the county of origin that should make manufacturers do that.

    For example, finished cellulose acetate sheets have to be stored for a certain time before they should be worked on for top quality products, which is probably not always done in these times of fierce competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak47 View Post
    More and more over the past few years, I have found that many plastic frames can barely hold any adjustment at all, even from manufacturers that previously had solid zyls (including Lux). Is MAZZUCCHELLI still being used and have they lowered their standards? Which manufacturers do you find can actually hold an adjustment other than Cazal, Kio Yamato, ProDesign?

    Observation: While the material quality a acetate frame is crafted from is important, of equal importance is the engineering of the frame components.

    I have seen epic fails from good manufacturers as well.

    1) Too thin of a rim, especially when coupled with a stiff, thicker temple assembly.
    2) Width of temple too wide, behaves like a pry bar.
    3) Insufficient stock in front of hinge assembly to facilitate filing to fit width.
    4) Insufficient or too robust spring mechanism.
    5) Temple length choice inadequate.
    6) Bridge fit choice, shape not necessarily for the human anatomy........
    7) Lens groove depth too wide, and or shallow.
    8) Main bracing structure of front inadequate.
    9) Lens groove position not curved, or over-curved creating forward or backward rim roll.
    10) And lastly........the infamous too straight of an upper rim profile which created the nasty upper rim " pop back ".
    Eyes wide open

  17. #17
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    Redhot Jumper today's optical frames are all made on the cheap side ...............................

    Quote Originally Posted by uncut View Post

    Observation: While the material quality a acetate frame is crafted from is important, of equal importance is the engineering of the frame components.

    I have seen epic fails from good manufacturers as well.



    ...................all the above translates into that today's optical frames are all made on the cheap side, where in the old days there was a difference between high quality frames and the classified under "others".

  18. #18
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncut View Post
    Observation: While the material quality a acetate frame is crafted from is important, of equal importance is the engineering of the frame components.

    I have seen epic fails from good manufacturers as well.

    1) Too thin of a rim, especially when coupled with a stiff, thicker temple assembly.
    2) Width of temple too wide, behaves like a pry bar.
    3) Insufficient stock in front of hinge assembly to facilitate filing to fit width.
    4) Insufficient or too robust spring mechanism.
    5) Temple length choice inadequate.
    6) Bridge fit choice, shape not necessarily for the human anatomy........
    7) Lens groove depth too wide, and or shallow.
    8) Main bracing structure of front inadequate.
    9) Lens groove position not curved, or over-curved creating forward or backward rim roll.
    10) And lastly........the infamous too straight of an upper rim profile which created the nasty upper rim " pop back ".
    Those factors have nothing to do with the material that a frame is made of. They are design flaws.

    A serviceable frame should be both properly designed and fabricated from an appropriate material. In as much as frames are a commodity and sold to indiscriminate buyers - whatever goes
    .

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter ak47's Avatar
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    Just kicking the dust around on a thread I started a year ago....what plastic frames that are manufactured in 2017 actually hold an adjustment?

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    One eye sees, the other feels OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak47 View Post
    Just kicking the dust around on a thread I started a year ago....what plastic frames that are manufactured in 2017 actually hold an adjustment?
    SPX. Fit and forget.

    SPX being lightweight...
    I'd guess about half the weight of acetate.

    …with a lacquered finish that offers a wonderfully high degree of polish.
    The finish still looks new after 3 years.

    https://sites.google.com/site/framematerials/spx

    Hope this helps,

    Robert Martellaro
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



  21. #21
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    I've had very good luck over the years with frames from Morel. I own two Koali acetate frames that have never needed readjustment. Tura's acetates have also worn well on my patients.

  22. #22
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    I am waiting for my first rep to come in with just an I pad and no samples and see how many of their frames I buy.

  23. #23
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Taylor Madison frames are the best Zyl I've worked with in a while, I'm all but sure its the old pre-Luxottica Oliver People's factory in Japan...

  24. #24
    Ghost in the OptiMachine Quince's Avatar
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    Still loving Optyl in 2017!

    Going off of what Dick said way back when, the buyers should be inspecting frames before committing to any line. I will even go as far as to adjust some of them myself. I'm trying it on and I want it to look and feel good for me before I even think about trying to sell it.

    Anytime there is a cool new design I look at how the lens is inserted and have my lab tech inspect it as well.
    Have I told you today how much I hate poly?

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