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  1. #1
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    VMail today

    LATEST NEWS
    Senator Schumer and AOA President-Elect Encourage FTC to Change Eyeglass Rule

    Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY).
    NEW YORK—Following the Federal Trade Commission’s (FTC) request for comment on the Ophthalmic Practice Rule (Eyeglass Rule) and the Contact Lens Rule, as reported by VMail Sept. 4, 2015, some prominent politicians and eyecare professionals have added their voices to request changes to the Eyeglass Rule.

    Standing in front of a LensCrafters on Sunday, Sept. 27, 2015, Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY) held a press conference and released a statement calling on the FTC to update regulations on eyeglass prescriptions requiring eyecare providers to give complete eyeglass prescription information to consumers. He cited “sky-high prices” and the need to shop around at stores and online among the reasons for changing the FTC rules to “promote competition and dramatically lower eyeglass prices.”

    American Optometric Association (AOA) president-elect Andrea P. Thau, OD, of New York, appeared at the news conference to ask the Senator to investigate any control over the market that some eyewear companies and some insurance companies that also sell glasses might have.

    In his statement, Schumer requested that the FTC allow “for 21st-century competition by allowing patients to obtain a full copy of their eyeglass prescriptions so they can take that prescription anywhere they want—even online. Eyeglasses are a necessity for millions of Americans, yet sky-high prices are making them unaffordable. We need more oversight when it comes to the cost of eyeglasses and one way to do that is to require patients get their full prescriptions so they can shop around in stores and online for the best deal. Consumers need more options when it comes to eyeglasses and that's why the FTC should update the ‘Eyeglass Rule’ in a way that helps spur competition and dramatically lower prices.”

    Schumer specifically requested that the FTC consider the following changes to the Eyeglass Rule: “require eyecare providers to provide complete eyeglass prescription information to consumers, including specifics like pupillary distance. Require prescription providers to verify prescription information for third party sellers in a reasonable time, allowing a consumer to take their prescription wherever they desire. Require eyeglass prescriptions to last longer than just one year, so consumers have more time to comparison shop.”

    Additionally, Schumer said his push is being made to spur the FTC to recognize the increasing role of e-commerce in the eyeglass marketplace.

    When asked what brought this issue to Senator Schumer’s attention, his office told VMail: “Our office became aware of this issue from speaking with constituents over the years. Whether at a fair or parade or incoming constituent opinion calls, this issue has been put on the Senator’s radar by New Yorkers. We looked into it and decided to take action based on the FTC’s own plans to revise the eyeglass rule. We are currently working with stakeholders on all sides, including eyecare professionals and the FTC, as we further examine this issue and the imminent changes to the eyeglass rule.”

    Many others, both inside and outside the profession, have already commented on the FTC’s Public Comments Page as well as in response to Vision Monday’s Facebook and Twitter posts about the FTC’s requests for comments on its Eyeglass and Contact Lens Rules.

    Many of the comments cited the adage “you get what you pay for,” explaining that there is a lot of technology that costs money behind producing quality eyeglasses. Others stated that adding the PD to a patient’s prescription will not alone encourage competition and ignores the need for additional measurements and a fitting of the final pair of glasses by an eyecare professional. “The issue here is to better educate the consumer,” one Facebook respondent said.

    Comments on the FTC page numbered 29 at press time and came from both eyecare professionals and consumers.

    In the comments, consumers complained about the difficulty of obtaining their prescription and/or their PD from their eyecare professionals and the timing when a new prescription is needed. Many cited their desire to buy eyeglasses online and were similarly worded.

    In their comments, eyecare professionals attempted to educate readers about the differences between a refraction and a comprehensive examination, and they also mentioned that their professionalism is often overlooked by their patients. One ECP who stated that her practice attempts to give every patient a printed copy of their prescription at the end of every exam, said, “Having a mandate to release a prescription is unnecessary as any ethical doctor will release a prescription to a patient at any time as long as the prescription has not expired.”

    Anyone can post additional comments on the FTC site by Oct. 26, 2015, and instructions for filing comments appear in the Federal Register Notices linked to above.

    An AOA representative told VMail that the organization would submit comprehensive formal comments on the rule before the Oct. 26, 2015 FTC deadline. Thau was not available for additional comment at press time.

  2. #2
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    When are they going to regulate coffee? Starbucks cost more per day than any eyeglasses I've ever sold when considering the average consumer comes in every 2.4years.

  3. #3
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
    When are they going to regulate coffee? Starbucks cost more per day than any eyeglasses I've ever sold when considering the average consumer comes in every 2.4years.
    There is no gatekeeper or second party involved in your purchase of a cup of coffee. You can buy a cup of coffee from whoever you chose. where ever you chose, whenever you chose. As the Reverend Wright stated some years ago "the chickens are coming home to roost."

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    Would make more sense if Sen. Schumer made the announcement in front of a local Dollar Tree.



  5. #5
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Blue Jumper "the chickens are coming home to roost." .........................

    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post

    There is no gatekeeper or second party involved in your purchase of a cup of coffee. You can buy a cup of coffee from whoever you chose. where ever you chose, whenever you chose. As the Reverend Wright stated some years ago "the chickens are coming home to roost."

    Is it not funny that everything I have been saying for years is falling slowly into place.

    And do you know who is financing all this ?

    You the optical retailers that embrace all the latest technologies that sell for high prices and make everybody a bundle including the manufacturers and lab owners that turn around and become your fiercest competitors on line, wanting to sell even more online by easing any laws or rules that slow them down.

    Soon you will see similar actions coming up in other states.

  6. #6
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Good God, people, don't fall for this "we've brought this on ourselves. I want to slit my wrists with an optical screwdriver."

    Schumer's been paid for by Warby Parker or someone else in the onliner industry.

    Suprise, suprise, suprise.

    Don't be a Gomer. Defend opticianry. I guarantee there are few fat cat opticians getting rich off the American public.

    And I, as an optometrist, sure as hell am not getting rich, despite brilliance and good looks.

    Follow the money, world.

    What a farce.

    Wake up.
    Last edited by drk; 09-30-2015 at 09:27 PM.

  7. #7
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Yea, glasses are sooooo expensive. Has Senator Scummer ever heard of America's Worst where you can get 2 pr. of glasses AND A FREE exam for 69 bucks! There are plenty of low ball deals out there where price is the ONLY consideration.

  8. #8
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    What this really, really shows is that money drives politics (no duh!) and businesses need to pay off the government to protect themselves. (You know about "protection rackets"?)

    Opticianry has NO PULL in Washington DC, because the profession itself is damned near dead. You can't collect PAC money from a non-profession.

    More bad news: you have to rely on optometry to do the heavy lifting, and optometrists are dumber than a box of rocks.

  9. #9
    OptiWizard
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post

    More bad news: you have to rely on optometry to do the heavy lifting, and optometrists are dumber than a box of rocks.
    sad truth.

  10. #10
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    If you take out the hyperbole from both sides, all that is being asked is:

    1. To include sufficient information to allow an eyeglass Rx to be filled by an online (or any) entity.
    2. To increase the expiration date default in an eyeglass Rx to 2 years.

    I know drk has stated that his "treatment plan" Rx is not forecasted to be efficacious beyond the expiration date he chooses to include, and that's fine. But really: Are Expiration dates any guarantee of full satisfaction now for the time frame included?

    B

  11. #11
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Nope. I am 100% on board with no expiration dates. Patient can fill it as long as he wants. Optician can fill it as long as his professional judgement dictates.

    Expiration dates on spectacle Rxs have become misleading. They are neither a guarantee nor a hammer to force routine examination.

    They were probably conceived as a recommendation, and we can go back to that for all I care.
    Last edited by drk; 09-30-2015 at 02:49 PM.

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    If you take out the hyperbole from both sides, all that is being asked is:

    1. To include sufficient information to allow an eyeglass Rx to be filled by an online (or any) entity.
    2. To increase the expiration date default in an eyeglass Rx to 2 years.

    I know drk has stated that his "treatment plan" Rx is not forecasted to be efficacious beyond the expiration date he chooses to include, and that's fine. But really: Are Expiration dates any guarantee of full satisfaction now for the time frame included?

    B
    I totally agree Barry, in fact these changes will have little/no effect on me or the practice here, (even some good!) my point is that if the good senator thinks there are not low cost options out there, he's sadly mistaken/mis-informed.

  13. #13
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    As to your point #1, Barry, it has been debunked numerous times, here.

    No, there's no such thing as "good enough glasses" and "really good glasses" and two different standards.

    If I had my druthers, there would be no Rx release at all...If someone wants to come to me for their vision care, great. If they don't...great. Just don't bother me by making me do half of my job, and then come in complaining that in the end it didn't get done right.

    Be that as it may, we have seen the FTC's (Fragmentation To Care) Eyeglasses I and II. I'm not looking forward to III.

    And you shouldn't, either.
    Last edited by drk; 09-30-2015 at 02:57 PM.

  14. #14
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post
    I totally agree Barry, in fact these changes will have little/no effect on me or the practice here, (even some good!) my point is that if the good senator thinks there are not low cost options out there, he's sadly mistaken/mis-informed.
    We tend to agree, usually, but consider that this is bigger than just what happens to 24/7 and his little corner of the world.

    You have a profession obligation, do you not? Or you just a cog, bro?

  15. #15
    looking up the answers smallworld's Avatar
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    opensecrets.org allows searches of all donations to Senator Schumer.

  16. #16
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    I looked. Not specific enough information.

  17. #17
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    As to your point #1, Barry, it has been debunked numerous times, here.

    No, there's no such thing as "good enough glasses" and "really good glasses" and two different standards.

    If I had my druthers, there would be no Rx release at all...If someone wants to come to me for their vision care, great. If they don't...great. Just don't bother me by making me do half of my job, and then come in complaining that in the end it didn't get done right.

    Be that as it may, we have seen the "Fragmentation To Care" Eyeglasses I and II. I'm not looking forward to III.

    And you shouldn't, either.
    Mmm. Interesting.

    Buy I clearly see common instances of "good enough" glasses recommendations by docs:

    "Oh, there's such little change in your Rx that you don't need a new Rx"

    Mmm.

    B

  18. #18
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    Chris was right!

    I am so glad we don't take insurance and I did sell over the internet and getting a PD was easy and we did progressives with no re-makes.

    The FTC rule changes amount to nothing! Why would anyone care if we need to put a PD on the RX; means nothing and who who is responsible when there is a typo? Same as the RX; the maker of the glasses ends up with the re-do.

    If most of the work is VCP's and the patient is going to VCP doctor, why do we need to separate the eyeglass sale for the patient; they went to a provider and why wouldn't they get the glasses there as well? What is wrong with the OD office that the VCP client still wants to go elsewhere.

    I believe the future of VCP is simple; get an OD to do the exam and then order them directly from VSP on-line! So you OD's better get ready to see 2x the patients to make up for the loss of eyeglass sales.

    We just had an MD in town (High-end no insurance) close his optical after he could not make any money 5 years after he opened it.

    I hope all VCP's encourage on-line purchases; it is the best thing that can happen to our business.

  19. #19
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    We tend to agree, usually, but consider that this is bigger than just what happens to 24/7 and his little corner of the world.

    You have a profession obligation, do you not? Or you just a cog, bro?
    My obligation is to my patient/clients. I feel obligated to inform them on the age of their last Rx. That even if they see *well*, it doesn't mean that they shouldn't go back in, if for no other reason than a health check. BUT, I'm not their mommy nor nanny. If they insist on using grandma's glasses, and wish to have them duplicated because they see *fine* with them, so be it. They've been *informed*. There's little reason for the public not to have screening/preventative care since most of us have some type of insurance to reduce the cost. But I also think 1 year expiry's on EVERY SINGLE Rx isn't (most of the time) in the patient's best interest.

    As far as the inclusion of PD on the Rx; I won't be using it, but if the patient wants online, let 'em try them. I'm not worried about the competition. I know your concern (and rightfully so) is when they return to you complaining about the *Rx*. I have no idea why your industry (optometry) doesn't institute a charge for a "recheck". It's a friggin' office visit and deserves a charge. If you wish to wave that fee for glasses you dispensed, that's up to you. Why do OD's recheck at N/C? My MD's sure don't.

  20. #20
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    I'm with Schumer...

    Of course he has to even the playing field for his constituents.

    1. Require all online sellers to hire NY licensed dispensers.
    2. Require all internet sellers to meet the same standards NY opticians, Optometrists and Ophthalmologists are required.

    If I were selling glasses on 42nd street, I would be arrested in NYC.

    Schumer is advocating using the internet to circumvent NY laws.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post
    My obligation is to my patient/clients. I feel obligated to inform them on the age of their last Rx. That even if they see *well*, it doesn't mean that they shouldn't go back in, if for no other reason than a health check. BUT, I'm not their mommy nor nanny. If they insist on using grandma's glasses, and wish to have them duplicated because they see *fine* with them, so be it. They've been *informed*. There's little reason for the public not to have screening/preventative care since most of us have some type of insurance to reduce the cost. But I also think 1 year expiry's on EVERY SINGLE Rx isn't (most of the time) in the patient's best interest.

    As far as the inclusion of PD on the Rx; I won't be using it, but if the patient wants online, let 'em try them. I'm not worried about the competition. I know your concern (and rightfully so) is when they return to you complaining about the *Rx*. I have no idea why your industry (optometry) doesn't institute a charge for a "recheck". It's a friggin' office visit and deserves a charge. If you wish to wave that fee for glasses you dispensed, that's up to you. Why do OD's recheck at N/C? My MD's sure don't.
    The simplicity of your last paragraph belays a subtle brilliance. How often do we just give our services away. Public perception, civic duty, a remanent of the past.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  22. #22
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by braheem24 View Post
    I'm with Schumer...

    Of course he has to even the playing field for his constituents.

    1. Require all online sellers to hire NY licensed dispensers.
    2. Require all internet sellers to meet the same standards NY opticians, Optometrists and Ophthalmologists are required.

    If I were selling glasses on 42nd street, I would be arrested in NYC.

    Schumer is advocating using the internet to circumvent NY laws.
    Just remember, we have two jurisdictions regulating the eye care business, Federal and State. Each State regulates the individual practitioner while the Federal government regulates interstate practices. The FTC is concerned with, among other things, regulating the restraint of trade.

    Dogs bark, ducks quack and regulators regulate.

  23. #23
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    but at least not as dumb as an ophthalmologist. Can't refract or use a retinoscope for beans but think they can do LASIK...

  24. #24
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    Mmm. Interesting. Buy I clearly see common instances of "good enough" glasses recommendations by docs: "Oh, there's such little change in your Rx that you don't need a new Rx" Mmm. B
    That's a reasonable point, but let's examine it more closely.

    I guess in saying "your current glasses are adequate" that could mean different things, but hopefully it means they:
    1. have no unwanted prism in their glasses
    2. have appropriate seg heights
    3. have been confirmed to be 20/20 by an optometrist
    4. no additional money has been spent
    5. safety of lenses have been confirmed previously by an optician
    6. the actual lens powers have been measured and compared to the refractive findings
    7. I, at least, observe the patient's existing glasses for fit/POW.

    So after I tell them "your glasses are adequate" don't you agree...they're pretty darn adequate?

    In saying "people should be able to buy glasses they design themselves through unregulated channels" it means that:
    1. they may have unwanted prism in their glasses
    2. seg heights could be anywhere
    3. no one knows what the VA through such glasses is
    4. money has been spent for sub-standard products
    5. safety?
    6. lens powers measured? Nope.
    7. frame fit? POW? Har-dee-har-har.



    So I guess your point, while sounding reasonable on face, falls apart easily.
    Last edited by drk; 09-30-2015 at 09:24 PM.

  25. #25
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    I believe the future of VCP is simple; get an OD to do the exam and then order them directly from VSP on-line! So you OD's better get ready to see 2x the patients to make up for the loss of eyeglass sales.
    You have forgotten one very important point that makes your utopia less likely.

    If VSP or EyeMed or anyone pulls that crap, ALL ODs will dump vision care plans like a flaming bag of dog crap, and they will have no providers. Tough to sell that to employers, no?

    So sorry, Mr. Internet Optician.

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