I really like the 3 choice idea, and use "good, better, and best" all the time. I actually mention "fair" also, but just to the rock bottom cheapsters.
One thing I have to constantly watch out for is my employees suggesting things that aren't necessary, and potentially problematic. Like suggesting transitions lenses for an elder person with pinhole pupils.
Hence an interview/assessment process.Originally Posted by Dr. Bill Stacy
I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain
of course. in optometry, both are parts of SOAP, a silly acronym for Subjective (complaints), Objective (examination), Assessment and Plan. All 4 always need to be done on every visit.
How do we know if a patient/customer is low or middle income or higher income? Dress and personal appearance often are misleading.
It's not always a matter of what is best, but rather how good they want it. It's not unusual to have an amish family with 12 kids in, and the parents are getting glasses also. Given the option of a higher end progressive, or a basic, the parents may opt for basic so they can afford to buy glasses for more of the kids.
That' what I love about this business; there' no black and white template that you can put over each patient.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Dress and personal appearance often are misleading.
Home address: If customer lives in a well to do suburb or in the slums.
What position : Will give of the income class information.
What is his job: ( They often answer, why do you want to know that ?)
"Depending on work he/she is doing we have to choose different types of lenses for perfect results and comfort.
Age and Birthday: What is your Birthday.
"Often the they counter ask "why do you want to know that ?"
So we can send you a Happy Birthday card.
..........and it works wonders because the elderly often write back that you were the only one to think about them at that time, and also tell all their friends how nice that optican is.
Appearance can be very misleading: The jazzy looking young to middle age ones might be looking for middle range or low priced solutions.
Older, unshaven simple dressed elders : Be very careful as they can be on a simple small pension or they can be the "Warren Buffet" type. Learn to judge from the address they give.
The more information you can get by reason of statistics, the better records you have for the future when they come back..
The recipe for unhappiness:
1. Senior
2. Small pupils
3. Nuclear cataracts
Doc says: "Oh you have a small cataract. Nothing to worry about. Surgery is a long way off. "
Patient: " I cant read newsprint clearly with my new, expensive glasses"
Me: ". It's your (nuclear) cataract"
Patient: " Doc told me nothing to worry about"
Me: (Ugh)
Seriously, this whole thread revokves around product pricing/value only. Its no wonder online is having such a field day at our expense.
You are more than just product. Get it?
B
This means you are owned by your creator; VSP and if you really could survive offering one level ( We have prospered doing this way) if only makes sense to all except those that take insurance and must justify the cost differences paid by the patient.
We give everyone the same exact lenses and quality if they get a $99 frame or a custom solid gold piece; we treat everyone as they deserve and want to be treated if given a choice. All of our clients can go somewhere else and pay less if they want but choose to come to my door to get it done one way, the right way for them and everyone else who walks in my door.
Ask them if they would rather pay a medium price and always get premium product no matter who you are and what insurance you have?
You will surprised to find out folks don't want a choice but you make them decide so the pick the middle one as expected when we put them in the premium with no discussion about something they can't understand nor can you quantify.
This almost never occurs but we just had a lady who insisted on Crizal so we charged her an extra $100 and made sure she got what she wanted.
We sell any thing they want and we did have a guy who wanted a Zeiss a few years ago; we did it for him at an extra $100 and when he came back for new lenses he got my version. He had problems in the past and Zeiss worked for him but after 2 years he had faith in Eyetopian and not a lens brand.
We tell them we only offer the best and if they have an issue we will take care of it but it is not because of the brand of lens or coating.
I love the way you run your business and it is so different from mine; that is the best part. Success is based on internal beliefs that we can enroll others to our way of thinking to achieve a positive for all.
Great example. My clients are almost all retired but some have financial issues and we help the kids by giving them a frame we have had for awhile and all the money goes towards the lenses. This is most likely to occur when we do a specialty lens for dyslexia or the like!
Chris is the perfect example; a rich guy who likes to look and act poor! Have you met the man, he is a trend setter and very happy to do things his way.
WE LIVE IN FLORIDA AND NEVER PRE-JUDGE ANYONE!
We treat everyone like they deserve the best and let them tell me they don't want it; they get what makes them comfortable.
Couldn't agree more! Choice or no choice, you can't stray from this.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
I used to get upset when a -10.00 wanted CR-39, I would explain the difference in materials and try to convince them that hi-index would be better. Sometimes they still chose the CR-39 option and I would make the script in CR-39. The client walked away unhappy that I made such thick glasses and I would end up in a confrontational situation explaining to the client that the choice was theirs.
Then I woke up, the choice was mine; the clients choice was what was presented and where they chose to purchase, my choice is to offer a great product and great experience. I am good at what I do but when my hands are tied with poor client choices then I am doomed from the start.
When I go to the doctor I never haggle over which medications are prescribed, for instance I don't say to the pharmacist, "I know I have an ear infection and antibiotics are what's recommended but OTC cough drops are cheaper so I am buying cough drops" my expectation is that my doctor prescribes what I need. I provide the same service, I give the client what they need.
Any good book on ophthalmics has lens material as being a fundamental cornerstone of lens design (aka my choice), the client explains their needs to me and based on those needs I chose a design of lens that accomplishes their goals (my choice), the patient tells me they hate the lenses that smudge and scratch I pick a ARC that is oleo, hydro, and scratch resistant (my choice). The client has a high plus RX, I remove any frame choice that is rimless or groove mount (my choice), at the end of the day the client walks away with a good experience because I make them feel good about my choices and why I chose those options (only if they ask).
The price is irrelevant good glasses costs coin, at a certain point I will walk away from a transaction; it took years to realize that was the best thing to do. I am happier letting the next guy allow the client to make all the choices and them blame the results on the fabricator when they are; too thick, too heavy, too smudgy, too hazy, too etc. The client eventually gets feed up and comes back or they are doomed to troll the landscape being disappointed time after time. My long term goal with every client is very little discussion about the products and services and more discussion about what they need and want, I don't want to spend time justifying MY CHOICES. I definitely don't want to spend lots of time going over why I think an option will not work, so some things are not optional.
The best clients deserve a hassle free experience with all expectations set correctly and needs meet, I in turn deserve a decent profit and healthy return on investment, PERIOD. That's a good business transaction for me.
Those are my feelings on the subject, of course I understand that different models exists so your millage may vary. I also have the unique capability and knowledge to visualize the end result of the many complex choices that go into production of quality eyewear. I use that last statement to highlight a point that I have learned; if superman used his powers to fix things after the evil villain destroyed things he wouldn't be a super hero he would be a great construction worker.
In conclusion: my clients expect me to be able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. I gladly oblige.
http://www.opticians.cc
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A lot of this discussion seems to be centered around what the customer wants and while that is a valid consideration I feel that a more important consideration is what do you, as the provider of these services want? After all you do have to live with yourself and the consequences of your business decisions.
I will bet dollars to donuts that there are opticians out there whose business model is to provide eyewear at the lowest cost to their customers while across the street is an optician who takes great satisfaction in being the most expensive shop in town. There is plenty of room in this business for both of there businesses and those who fall between these two extremes. The important thing is that the business owners/proprietors needs are being met, be they altruistic or pecuniary. If you are an employee, which seems to be the majority of OptiBoarders, what do you want at the end of the day (hmm, another thread, methinks)?
I'm happy with all the replies to this topic. I was pretty sure that I'd get some action with this.
My prime target here was the "latest greatest" progressive lenses. We are getting sold (in the worst sense of the word) products that sell for exorbitant prices that make us look like crooks, and we are falling for it. We, as an industry, are getting labeled as snake oil salesmen because we believe the meticulously crafted sales pitches by Essilor or Zeiss or Shamir etc.
I once made six identical pairs of glasses with various PAL's, for free, for a particularly picky customer of mine. I did this for my own information, and spent a ton of $$ doing so. I challenge every owner out there to do the same. I think you'll wipe many products from your menu and focus on more palpable benefits to the end user. Quality frames, not just fancy branded models. Computer progressives, Rx Sunwear. Even fancy AR coatings actually DO provide real benefits the consumer will appreciate after the sale.
I don't care if your average customer makes $150k a year. I guarantee you they'd rather have two pairs of glasses with your labs "house brand" freeform instead of a Varilux "just came out last week" branded sales-job. PAL technology is not in its infancy folks and it is not even in any sort of renaissance either. It's well-developed technology. Nearly ALL progressive lenses are perfectly functional for 95% of your patients. Besides, most of these lenses aren't even profitable enough to justify the inevitability of eventually losing that patient. Even the most loyal patients will eventually buy a pair at Costco. Don't lie to yourself, they will. You had better be damned sure that costco will screw up enough to send them crawling back to pay you double or triple.
We are giving away the goodwill we have with our patients in order to "feel" like we "sell the best".
I'm only advocating against the extremes. While I don't use the cheapest possible lens, I also blatantly refuse to recommend or sell any PAL in the top 20% of the price range.
I will also be the first to jump on the bandwagon when someone comes out with a progressive that eliminates distortion/adaptation/narrow fields, but it ain't happened yet.
If you need to compete, which you do, make the decision to give your patient balanced products so that WHEN they decide to try Costco or Walmart or Coastal, they come back.
If you like the idea but feel that you can't make the transition because you will lose out on profits in the short term, I advise you to find a new lab. I've used so many different labs it would make your head spin. 80% of them are a rip off too, which trickles down to your patients wallet also. Rule of thumb, if the lab sends you a fruit basket, a christmas card, and your contact person is like an old friend, drop them. You're getting ripped off.
Last edited by VisionAiry; 09-27-2015 at 02:55 PM.
Fourteen of my family members (including: aunts, uncles, cousins, parents, grandparents...and a great uncle) are, or have been in optical and...that's just crazytown at Christmas
I actually believe there are some major differences between various PALs, but the problem is it's not particularly easy to quantify these differences. I'd love it if someone would actually plot unwanted astigmatic errors across the entire lens for every power/add combo, but that's probably never gonna happen. So we're left to experiment, use what we know, follow or run from the reps' recommendations. I've worn PALs for years and hate them. They are an optical abomination, but I still wear them because it's very slightly less annoying that lined bifocals/trifocals, except when doing heavy near reading, and I still opt for SV when desktop computing. It's good for business that they cause multiple pairs to be almost required.
Rant setting still on.
While i'm at it I can also complain about the whole digital lens surfacing deal. Am I alone, or does anyone prefer good old molded and or conventionally ground lenses? Don't talk to me about atoric/aspheric/etc either, unless you can also show me plots of those lenses that show unwanted astigmatic error across the entire lenses.
Does anyone beside me ever occasionally see the little tool marks? Looks a bit like a miniature plowed field. The polishing out with a flexible SPHERICAL(??) sponge seems just wrong to this old style optometrist, especially for PALs and high cyls.
One suggestion to the labs, you might track the percentages of non-adapt redos by brand/style/material of PALs, and go ahead, PUBLISH IT FOR EVERYONE TO SEE!!
Rant off... (can you say "publish it" 3 times fast?)
Equally informative would be to see the percentage of non-adapts by provider, but, as the old mamasan used to say "nevva hoppen" GI !
I have very small pupils and love my transitions.
Many marketers swear that real profits are not in the first sale, but rather in the up-sell, cross-sell or down-sell. In fact these techniques are as old as marketing itself, and most mainstream businesses employ them in one way or another. But do you know what each of these terms mean? No? Well, don’t worry. We’ll explain everything below.
First of all you need to understand that these techniques take place after the customer is sold. That is, the customer must already have explicitly agreed to buy your product or service before you up-sell, cross-sell or down-sell. Now let’s talk about each of them individually.
Check it out at: =========>
http://www.carlocab.com/up-sell-down...what-they-mean
Last edited by Chris Ryser; 09-28-2015 at 05:20 AM.
I read it and do understand what they are saying but that is not what we are trying to do; all out profits are made off existing clients who spend more after the initial sale.
We have found that price is only an obstacle the first time they purchase from us; when we look at account history the most important thing is to make them a client and we don't care what they buy the first time. If we do our job properly and introduce them to the Eyetopian way of doing glasses, they come back with friends and family to get what they want. Price is always less of a concern after a purchase and we work very hard on the making them a client and then keeping them.
We do not up-sell as much as present different options: a Lindberg titanium does not compete with a Maybach sale; they compliment each other and we show the clients frames from $99.00 to $10,000.00 so they can decide to up-sell themselves or plan for the next pair.
Most folks don't know Maybach exists so we must educate and then they will come back to buy them.
We sell only 2x the units of Maui Jim that we do in Maybach because of this approach.
Chris,
Please stop in this year to say hello.
Craig
This is the only way to polish a "free form" back side lens with an aspheric surface. Because of the stroke required (front to back, side to side, rotationally), a back-side progressive would be ground out using traditional hard surface tooling.
In the precision optics industry, front aspheric lenses are made all the time, and a rubber bladder is used for the final polish. There is simply no other way to polish a surface that is not perfectly spherical (or at least spherical in two axis 90 degrees apart).
+1
Non-adapts are pretty much equal for all brands with the provider ( as you stated) being the common element; if a organization normally uses one or 2 brands they do very well but if they are brand hoppers, they blame the lens and try another one for no reason with same results.
MD's always have higher non-adapts than OD's and we as opticians do not get any credit for non-adapts so we are very motivated to ensure accuracy the first time around! It is a huge waste for everyone if any re-do must occur.
Transitions are fine for small pupils with one major caveat/warning: Under certain conditions they can be dangerous when the lenses are fully dark and the wearer enters an area of low lighting (under shade trees, entering a building, etc) where they still have small pupils and the lenses are still very dark, their visibility will be quite low and they might be better off removing them for a few minutes until they clear.
Having said that, there are conditions (like under shade trees) where there's enough ambient UV to KEEP them DARK, darker than might be safe for the ambient visible light around.
Those exceptions aside, they are otherwise fine lenses.
I understand the physics of it, but I suspect (have no way to quantify this) that some aberration is added to the surface when being polished by a flexible tool, the longer the polishing goes on, the more the aberration. But that plus the extra cost for free form and other lens types requiring this kind of production may or may not justify their use. Kind of moot, I know, since everyone seems to be jumping onto the digital bandwagon.
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