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Thread: Duty To Warn (Anyone Doing This)

  1. #1
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    Duty To Warn (Anyone Doing This)

    Is anyone doing any type of Duty to Warn process?

    Just trying to gather enough Yes/No answers to let me know if it is worth addressing as a topic for training purposes.

    Not really interested in right-wrong or how you "feel" about it...

    Thanks
    John

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    I call it "Duty to Advise", and I put a tag on every pair of lenses that I fabricate, include plano filters. It also includes warranty instructions. I use an abbreviated form when I send the filters I make to opticians/dispensers, this just covers the specifics of the filter and a reminder that scratches etc are indications that the filters should be replaced.

    I believe it should be done for every pair that has an issue of some kind that the patient could cause, for example, using a non-approved cleaning agent on an A/R coated lens.

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    Hmmmmm,

    I'm not sure that is what Duty To Warn is about.

    As I understand it (when it was all the rage) Duty To Warn has to do with acknowledging that every lens has the potential to cause bodily harm and that you are aware of that potential risk.

    Hopefully others will post their thoughts as well?

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    It is duty to advise of the lens options, and their various levels of impact protection. It was incorrectly named "duty to warn". You are supposed to record evidence of all the options presented, as well as the signed choice made by the buyer.

    The spirit is informed consent, not steering their choice.

    B

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    So is that yes i do it or no i don't?

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    Interesting topic... How far do we have to go with this? Even if you warn a patient of a "special situation", let's say, with the fact that glass or CR 39 lenses may shatter, you can still get sued if a patient gets hurt...because..."as a professional you should have known that the product was unsafe, and you knew there were safer substitutes, and you should have chosen not to use the more dangerous product".

    I've seen warnings to ODs that we should get patients to sign a form when they refuse dilation, showing that we educated them of the risks of doing without. But then....the others argue we need a form to warn the patient that dilating drops can cause an ocular emergency...or even death.

    Do we warn all contact lens patients, with a signed form, that they are more likely to go blind from acanthamoeba than if they wear glasses? Where does it end?

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    So is that a yes i do or a no i don't?

    And yes this is america where you can buy a gun with a smile and handshake but have to warn people in writing about wearing glasses

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    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    No I don't. I figure we'd get sued anyway in the rare case our small practice would have a patient incur an injury. The insurance company imo would settle to make the lawyers happy whether we did it or not. (The client being an afterthought.)

    In court I'd bet informed consent is not worth the paper it's written on. Now a glass company like Mike's or a major Lab is another story. They being the deeper pocket for the lawyer to also sue and get a settlement from.

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    In over 40 years of practice I've never heard of any opt. guy getting sued because the lenses were not protective enough. I believe everyone should wear protective glasses when driving. That's right, everyone. Due to the drying effect of air conditioned air on the ocular surfaces, and due to the cutting effect of shrapnel coming from an accident.

    Sure, I make more money the more people who buy my logic, but I always wear specs for those reasons myself, even though I have about 20/20 without specs. So call me a capitalist. I've been called worse.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John@OWDC View Post
    So is that yes i do it or no i don't?
    Exactly what I said.

    Or not.

    The choice is yours.

    Barry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Bill Stacy View Post
    In over 40 years of practice I've never heard of any opt. guy getting sued because the lenses were not protective enough. I believe everyone should wear protective glasses when driving. That's right, everyone. Due to the drying effect of air conditioned air on the ocular surfaces, and due to the cutting effect of shrapnel coming from an accident.

    Sure, I make more money the more people who buy my logic, but I always wear specs for those reasons myself, even though I have about 20/20 without specs. So call me a capitalist. I've been called worse.
    On the dashboard is a lever and switch combination that control the fan and the temperature, in addition to the venty thingies that move where the "wind" blows. Adjust them properly, and your eyes (sorry, "ocular surfaces") don't dry out.

    As far as "shrapnel" is concerned...don't stick your head out the window while driving.

    Seriously, doc, you have to remember that everything on Optiboard shows up on the 'net within about 30 minutes. You've just branded yourself as an eye doctor that will sell you eyewear that you don't really need for obviously silly reasons, just to, in your own words "make more money the more people who buy my logic". Keep that up and someone will report you to the State Board of Optometry.

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    OK let me explain a little more about my theory as to why full time spectacle wear is a good thing for everyone. Of course number one is that most people need refractive correction (or could benefit by it, no matter how weak). Second, there's a little space behind glasses that form a little microclimate that is somewhat moister than the ambient air and always calmer in terms of windage than ambient air movement. This reason applies to millions of people who have dry eye related conditions. The 3rd reason is obvious to most people. The eyes are often injured due to various flying objects, screws, nails, rocks, glass, you name it. Some of these eyes are lost forever from their injuries. I'm just doing my little part to help out. I personally have had a rock hit my lens while weed-eating. If I hadn't had my specs on, I'd have been definitely injured. One more testimony, I hit a deer in Montana doing about 80 mph (legal), which destroyed the front end of the car, blew the radiator, and luckily he flew over the top of the car and didn't fracture the windshield or deploy the air bags. Had the windshield shattered, I'd again have been glad I was wearing my very weak Rx glasses.

    YOU may consider these "silly" reasons to wear glasses, but I and the State Board of Optometry in CA don't think they are silly at all. "Overprescribing" glasses is rapidly fading away as a reason to criticize optometrists' prescribing proclivities.
    Last edited by Dr. Bill Stacy; 08-25-2015 at 12:43 PM.

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    Redhot Jumper pretty strong language for a friendly discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post

    Seriously, doc, you have to remember that everything on Optiboard shows up on the 'net within about 30 minutes. You've just branded yourself as an eye doctor that will sell you eyewear that you don't really need for obviously silly reasons, just to, in your own words "make more money the more people who buy my logic". Keep that up and someone will report you to the State Board of Optometry.

    ...................pretty strong language for a friendly discussion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    It is duty to advise of the lens options, and their various levels of impact protection. It was incorrectly named "duty to warn". You are supposed to record evidence of all the options presented, as well as the signed choice made by the buyer.

    The spirit is informed consent, not steering their choice.

    B
    Exactly, our job is to inform the client of all the lens material options and share with them our knowledge regarding the various lens options. Of coarse, there are groups within the population that the choice is made for them, because of safety. For the rest of the populous the ultimate decision is theirs to make. The means to obtain this is through the interview process that you should be conducting with each of your clients.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post
    On the dashboard is a lever and switch combination that control the fan and the temperature, in addition to the venty thingies that move where the "wind" blows. Adjust them properly, and your eyes (sorry, "ocular surfaces") don't dry out.

    As far as "shrapnel" is concerned...don't stick your head out the window while driving.

    Seriously, doc, you have to remember that everything on Optiboard shows up on the 'net within about 30 minutes. You've just branded yourself as an eye doctor that will sell you eyewear that you don't really need for obviously silly reasons, just to, in your own words "make more money the more people who buy my logic". Keep that up and someone will report you to the State Board of Optometry.

    Mike,

    I do not know what your issue with Dr. Bill Stacy is all about. I will advise you to chill out. Optiboard is not the place to wage a personal vendetta against another member or company. It will not be tolerated.

    I suggest that you step away from the computer, get outside and breathe some fresh air. It will do you, and Optiboard, some good.

    Fezz
    Last edited by Fezz; 08-25-2015 at 01:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John@OWDC View Post
    So is that a yes i do or a no i don't?

    And yes this is america where you can buy a gun with a smile and handshake but have to warn people in writing about wearing glasses
    It can't hurt, I usually make sure to warn people who have limited vision in 1 eye, and keep them the hell out of glass and plastic. I've also refused to sell glass to people with vision in one eye only, because I truly feel it isn't safe. But the second you tell the average joe schmoe about this, they hear "bulletproof! they cannot break or scratch or do anything bad" ... and those will be the people you have trouble with.
    "what i need is a strong drink and a peer group." ... Douglas Adams - Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy

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    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fezz View Post
    Mike,

    I do not know what your issue with Dr. Bill Stacy is all about. I will advise you to chill out. Optiboard is not the place to wage a personal vendetta against another member or company. It will not be tolerated.

    I suggest that you step away from the computer, get outside and breathe some fresh air. It will do you, and Optiboard, some good.

    Fezz
    I agree. I once told you to just put Dr. Stacy on your Ignore list and instead of heeding my advice you continue to go out of your way to find new ways to insult him. This is simply not acceptable.


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    Point taken.

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    law

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post
    Point taken.
    i know of one case that happened in chicago years ago. an optician sold a pair of raybans g 15 glass, unknowingly to an undercover agent. agent goes to make arrest, perp punches him, shatters the glass, permanent damage to the eye, and the rest was a lawsuit, dont remember the outcome.

    personally i was sued once for making a ladies lenses too thick, according to her, she lost,but does show you how inane these matters can become

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    OK

    Let me try this one more time...

    Do you or do you not provide each and every patient/customer with some form of written Duty to Warn that you have them sign and that you keep on file?

    Uncle Fester - thank you for following instructions.
    Looks like you are the only one that can read here!

    I was really hoping to gather enough Y - N answers to make an informed (statistical) decision.

    So far I have 1.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    You are supposed to provide a duty to advise form. Many do not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John@OWDC View Post
    Is anyone doing any type of Duty to Warn process?

    Just trying to gather enough Yes/No answers to let me know if it is worth addressing as a topic for training purposes.

    Not really interested in right-wrong or how you "feel" about it...

    Thanks
    John

    no

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    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    I see a risk in using a real name and saying no.

    From the Q&A Forum: You should look into creating a poll that does not show names.

    http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...-I-post-a-poll

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    No

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