Repairs....Repairs......Repairs, are we still doing it ?

[Uncle Fester]

The ability to touch up/cut down a lens with a hand edger is the skill I would say is most important. Frames can be so inexpensive today I think that's the way to go.

"Here's the spare pair with the old scratched lenses for $75. Now let's look at getting an appointment to check your eyes health and then make a new pair."

Again, I know I'm a bit of a burr under the saddle of the well rounded optician here but to repair today's frames is just not worth it.

If you still want to acquire the skill by all means do! But as others state you really need a mentor. Your local jeweler would probably know more than 98% of the optical world out there. In fact many of them do just that on the side.

Also I see more and more metal frames today being made from sheet stock stainless steel and titanium which are welded, not soldered.

[AngeHamm]

The ability to touch up/cut down a lens with a hand edger is the skill I would say is most important. Frames can be so inexpensive today I think that's the way to go.

"Here's the spare pair with the old scratched lenses for $75. Now let's look at getting an appointment to check your eyes health and then make a new pair."

Again, I know I'm a bit of a burr under the saddle of the well rounded optician here but to repair today's frames is just not worth it.

If you still want to acquire the skill by all means do! But as others state you really need a mentor. Your local jeweler would probably know more than 98% of the optical world out there. In fact many of them do just that on the side.

Also I see more and more metal frames today being made from sheet stock stainless steel and titanium which are welded, not soldered.

+1, absolutely.

[wmcdonald]

[QUOTE=Uncle Fester;510390]You date yourself Dr. McDonald!

I'd learn with a torch.[/QUOTE

Absolutely, we need up-to-date materials, and I am old! A torch, etc. but they can be purchased fairly inexpensively. Sorry about that, but you get the picture. We need to be able to do those things, and can turn it into income. In my research, I always ask the question, "Do you do frame repairs, and if so what do you do?" Most say tinting (which is not repairs at all) and replacing screws.

[Paul Smith LDO]

Paul, this fact that state boards do not test this is irrelevant, really. Most state boards are made up of ill-prepared high school graduates, and should never be in the position to begin with. To top that, most could not pass the boards they administer. They have absolutely no clue in most cases I have seen, and is one case for doing away with them altogether. I was in Atlanta this weekend and had a 30-year Optician that had never heard the term focimeter, and could not neutralize a pair of spectacles for my refraction students! We are in a real mess, but soldering and other repairs is an art that can be learned, and is inexpensive to do. That said, your state board also does not require you to have a calculator or computer. Does that mean you should not have one? If a business (not sure what you mean by program, but if it a school program, they should have it) or a school cannot afford a soldering iron and materials to do this, they need not be in business to start with.

You missed my point. That being in response to Chris's comment as to what defines an Optician. My point is that Schools/programs are not teaching soldering as part of the curriculum. I was fortune enough to have had several hours of class time dedicated to soldering, hot finger repair and some basic acetate repair. I was never asked to demonstrate any ability at the time of the State Boards. Politics and funding has dwindled and the new generation of Opticians are not being taught some of these skill sets. School Boards are more interested in bottom line, butts in the seats or enrollment in on-line classes. As to the initial question, did at one time but like Fester I send it out or refer.

[Chris Ryser]

Again, I know I'm a bit of a burr under the saddle of the well rounded optician here but to repair today's frames is just not worth it.

You opticians that sell a simple optical frame for hundreds of Dollars and then turn around cry out your heart that the same frame is sold by on-liners for below a hundred Dollars and then turn around again and say that, but to repair today's frames is just not worth it.

That statement would make me, if I would be a regular consumer turn my back to any so called optician, and embrace the on-line opticals just for being honest and sell their products at a fair price.

I have learned this profession during a three year apprenticeship during which I earned a misely monthly salary, then followed by three years of full time optical school, but would be ashamed to death, to declare that today's frames are not worth repairing.

This is an official admission that we are selling crap at overpriced charges.

These days when the worlds largest frame manufacturer like Luxottica has also entered the on-line direct sales to the consumer market as http://www.glasses.com and http://oakley.com/ by selling at rock bottom prices and even including free Rx lenses, can we afford to make such statements on a public website ?

[stefyxz]

Chris,

Which are the basic solvents?

I have acetone and acetic acid (80%, not glacial, that is not available to me being a controlled substance here). Which one is the third?

I find fixing plastic frames more difficult than welding or soldering. It's true that you need almost no equipment. But chemistry seems odd and very messy to me.

I most often use acetone with some success. I try with acetic acid out of desperation when acetone doesn't work. But some plastics (especially the new ones, grilamid, ultem, some injection plastic...) are impossible to melt. And if i try to instert a metal with hot fingers instead, the plastic just burns.

To me, only good quality acetate frames can be mended with very good results.

[Chris Ryser]

Chris,



I find fixing plastic frames more difficult than welding or soldering. It's true that you need almost no equipment. But chemistry seems odd and very messy to me.

Dump the acetone or use it as a cleaner for the odd things. It will not work anymore with today's materials.

There is a good description how to do it, on my website at http://optochemicals.com/frame_welder.htm

[stefyxz]

Chris,

Thank you, I am aware of that page.

As I observe (no chemistry knowledge, just practice) new plastic materials are not even resistant to chemicals, such as those akin to nylon.

Would you suggest toluene?

Cheers,
Stefano Perlusz
Visio Optical

[Uncle Fester]

That statement would make me, if I would be a regular consumer turn my back to any so called optician, and embrace the on-line opticals just for being honest and sell their products at a fair price.

I've been selling "me" for a long time now and my loyal following knows it.

Go ahead if you dare and botch someones cherished metal frame. There are technicians (not opticians) who work with and own all the ancillary products (and there are a lot of them) that are needed to make an effective repair and can fix it better than you can because they do it all day long for a fair price.

Screw it up and see what shows up on line in comments about you and your business!!!

[Chris Ryser]

I've been selling "me" for a long time now and my loyal following knows it.

Go ahead if you dare and botch someones cherished metal frame. There are technicians (not opticians) who work with and own all the ancillary products (and there are a lot of them) that are needed to make an effective repair and can fix it better than you can because they do it all day long for a fair price.

Screw it up and see what shows up on line in comments about you and your business!!!

I get your point. We all are selling "me" and have a loyal following. However there is one factor we often forget is that the loyal followers were older when we met them the first time and are now still a generation ahead and will disappear when the time comes.

The technicians you mention and that are now doing the outside repair work used to be the opticians in older times, that sold a pair of glasses, and kept it going for a few years by fixing them up and repairing them when needed or getting new ones..

So these days you send out a repair job to these specialised technicians who charge you for the work done, and you pass it back on to the owner with a certain markup on the original charge of the technicians.

In today's age with all the Mega Labs spread around the globe and more coming, the optician also spreads the original lab work of a fresh sale of new glasses around the technicians of those companies.

So it looks like the title of an Optician has actually become some kind of a middleman, that sells glasses, but passes on the the actual labour part to the specialised technicians.
(This of course excludes the still operating full service opticians that master their profession from one end to the other.)

The next generation of older people which is the bread and butter for an optician has become older with the use of computers, and the internet, and instant communications, which has totally changed our lifestyles.

The second gas station with some good service and 2 mechanics has closed, after servicing my cars for 15 years and got replaced by 8 self service pumps and a 24 hour store. Now I have to go back to the original Factory Dealer.

Could the optician also become extinct at some point ?

[Uncle Fester]

Could the optician also become extinct at some point ?

Absolutely not!

But they don't need to know how to score and hand crib a glass lens either. Progress!!!

For the newbie when Chris was knee high to a grasshopper opticians would have a metal pattern that you'd place on a tracing device with a glass lens. A few cranks of the handle and just the right thumb pressure on the glass cutter would score the lens in the shape desired. If you were a coward you'd score the lens 2 mm big, a real pro (Optician?;) would score it to half a mm. Holding the lens in the middle you'd take a pair of cribbing pliers (picture a hammerhead sharks head on a pliers) grip and twist/snap the excess glass from the score line. With practice you'd make a "ringer" where the excess came off in one piece creating a ring of glass. Otherwise you would carefully chip pieces of glass off until you reached the score line then hand beveled it on your wet sandstone.

As an aside we had to make 10 jobs like this in school in the mid 70's. Thank God for automation!!!

[rbaker]

Absolutely not!

But they don't need to know how to score and hand crib a glass lens either. Progress!!!

For the newbie when Chris was knee high to a grasshopper opticians would have a metal pattern that you'd place on a tracing device with a glass lens. A few cranks of the handle and just the right thumb pressure on the glass cutter would score the lens in the shape desired. If you were a coward you'd score the lens 2 mm big, a real pro (Optician?;) would score it to half a mm. Holding the lens in the middle you'd take a pair of cribbing pliers (picture a hammerhead sharks head on a pliers) grip and twist/snap the excess glass from the score line. With practice you'd make a "ringer" where the excess came off in one piece creating a ring of glass. Otherwise you would carefully chip pieces of glass off until you reached the score line then hand beveled it on your wet sandstone.

As an aside we had to make 10 jobs like this in school in the mid 70's. Thank God for automation!!!

Prior to the introduction of the diamond wheel in our edger's this was the only method available to "crib" down a glass lens before introducing it to a vitrified abrasive wheel. Can you imagine the edging time required to bring down to size a -6.00D 58 MM lens for a 44 eye 402-4. Cripes, it would still be running!

As new materials and technology become available new processes and techniques evolve. Always been that way, always will be. It won't be long until you punch in the Rx and frame data, hit the ender button, and wait a few seconds for a finished lend ready to inset slides down the chute.

As the machines get smarter the end users get dumber!

[AngeHamm]

It won't be long until you punch in the Rx and frame data, hit the ender button, and wait a few seconds for a finished lend ready to inset slides down the chute.

Ready to insert? Dude, five years after this it will come edged and mounted in your choice of frame colors.

[Chris Ryser]

Would you suggest toluene?

Cheers,
Stefano Perlusz

No I would not recommend it.

Toluene is an intoxicative inhalant and its possession and use are regulated in many jurisdictions. As of 2007, 24 U.S. states had laws penalizing use, possession with intent to use, and/or distribution of inhalants such as toluene.

[SharonB]

Absolutely not!

But they don't need to know how to score and hand crib a glass lens either. Progress!!!

For the newbie when Chris was knee high to a grasshopper opticians would have a metal pattern that you'd place on a tracing device with a glass lens. A few cranks of the handle and just the right thumb pressure on the glass cutter would score the lens in the shape desired. If you were a coward you'd score the lens 2 mm big, a real pro (Optician?;) would score it to half a mm. Holding the lens in the middle you'd take a pair of cribbing pliers (picture a hammerhead sharks head on a pliers) grip and twist/snap the excess glass from the score line. With practice you'd make a "ringer" where the excess came off in one piece creating a ring of glass. Otherwise you would carefully chip pieces of glass off until you reached the score line then hand beveled it on your wet sandstone.

As an aside we had to make 10 jobs like this in school in the mid 70's. Thank God for automation!!!

OMG - so much time spent doing that!

[Craig]

I did a demo with a laser welder that was for setting up this type of business.
I went to my local jeweler who had the machine and learned it was easier to send them to him but they charge $50 with a one-time re-do if it breaks again.
Most folks are too cheap to spend $50 on a repair of glasses they bought at Walmart or Costco.

We do repair glasses everyday but we ask and receive a minimum donation of $15 to a charity such as: Make A Wish. We raise over $10,000 per year for local kids and we do get 1 per week who does not want to pay anything, they are asked to go back to where they got them to get free service.
We also charge our own clients for things that are over 2 years old and all the money goes to charity.

We do send frames out to have them add nose pads or fix a broken horn or acetate frame; the cost is at least $75-150 but it is done perfectly in about a week. We regularly sell a frame then send it out for notepads so it fits properly and they get the frame they want.

We will not repair glasses that are too gross to touch; they are asked if they want us to throw them away for them.

People will not pay enough to justify most business locations while sitting in a kiosk for 10 hours per day is not my kind of fun.

[Chris Ryser]

We do send frames out to have them add nose pads or fix a broken horn or acetate frame; the cost is at least $75-150 but it is done perfectly in about a week. We regularly sell a frame then send it out for notepads so it fits properly and they get the frame they want.

We will not repair glasses that are too gross to touch; they are asked if they want us to throw them away for them.

People will not pay enough to justify most business locations while sitting in a kiosk for 10 hours per day is not my kind of fun.

Thinking that a couple of drops of the right solvent to dissolve the 2 small broken surfaces of an acetate frame might cost a few cents. Then clamp them properly together and let them sit and fuse and dry for 24 hours before sanding and polishing, that can take 10 to 30 minutes, your cost is fairly steep.

Horn frames are a different story and do take a lot more time and know how to do properly.

These days gross frames clean themselves in a good ultrasonic cleaner and you can charge to change the cleaning solution after use.

[Craig]

We don't have no ultrasonic cleaner; if they are that dirty we don't want to touch them. They can go to someone else who is specializes in such items.

The level of product we carry often cannot be put in ultrasonic so we sold the soapy mess many years ago. Good riddance.

[fjpod]

Wow, so much discussion... Eyeglasses are not the only thing in today's world that get discarded when slightly "broken". Look at shoe repair, TV and electronics, cell phones....people get new ones even when the old one is not broken. So, I don't think as a profession, we should be self-deprecating for not spending $100 worth of time to fix a $50 frame.

At our office, there is very little to be made in repairs, as most of the ones we do are those frames sold by us. We owe it to the patient to try and keep those frames in good repair. We do it gladly for little or nothing. Outside glasses,... we will either repair for a small fee, or advise replacement if that is what's best.

[wmcdonald]

Repairs are not for everyone. You should determine for yourselves if it is for you. If you have the knowledge, skill, and ability, as well as the inclination, it can be a profitable service.

[optilady1]

If you are willing to do minor repairs, you will win an incredibly loyal following. I can't tell you how many sales we had based on doing free repairs when I worked at the LC. Of course it was a stand alone, not a mall store, so there was a different perception of it being a 'chain', but we didn't charge for anything. And I got lots of love from people desperate for a quick fix to last till their next purchase.

[ml43]

If you are willing to do minor repairs, you will win an incredibly loyal following. I can't tell you how many sales we had based on doing free repairs when I worked at the LC. Of course it was a stand alone, not a mall store, so there was a different perception of it being a 'chain', but we didn't charge for anything. And I got lots of love from people desperate for a quick fix to last till their next purchase.

I agree with minor repairs for free is an excellent service.

but I'm pretty sure this thread is about major repairs
i.e. Fixing snapped bridges, broken eyewires, hinge replacement/repair, acetate temple shortening, nose pad arm installs and anything else that requires laser welding, chemical welding, soldering, buffing, and possibly recoating.

basically all repairs that LC doesn't do

[Chris Ryser]

We don't have no ultrasonic cleaner; if they are that dirty we don't want to touch them. They can go to someone else who is specializes in such items.

The level of product we carry often cannot be put in ultrasonic so we sold the soapy mess many years ago. Good riddance.

Craig..........I have to disagree on your last statement.

You claim and I know personally that you operate a fine optical retail business that caters to the more wealthy population in SW Florida.

In my younger years I worked once for 3 years as an optician in a store in the French part on Lake Geneva in Switzerland that catered to the world's super rich and famous that had homes there and spent part of the year in that area.

From the former Queen of Spain to Charlie Chaplin, The King of Siam (Thailand), to the Agha Khan and Professor August Picard (the first man in space), and many more, they were all steady customers.

Because the ultra rich and famous are not any different than regular people, some of them had also gross and disgustingly dirty glasses, with the difference that they owned 10 to 15 pairs of them and purchased new ones very often.

There were no Ultrasonic cleaners invented at that time. So we had to use old tooth brushes and soap with warm water in the sink, to do the job, but we did it all the time and at no charge.

The level of product has nothing to do with a cleaning job as they all get dirty. I probably never cleaned as many 16 to 18 karat gold frames as then, and some of them real dirty, as I did during those 3 years in my life time.

[Ryan.P.]

Eyeglass Repair is worth doing!!

Eyeglass Repair is a huge part of our practice. We invested in eyeglass repair 10yr. Ago. It's not a cheap investment if you plan on doing it right. You have to buy the right equipment. The machines that fix eyewear seamlessly cost more than most current day Edgers and blocker set ups. The machine I have can fix everything. I do eyewear, dental, jewelry, cell phones and ect. Chris you were on the right track. You can make repairs a job in itself and there are some stores in Arizona and Texas that have them. But it is a lot of hard work. I had to treat it like its own business even though I'm in a optical making 40-50 jobs a day. I currently have all the big names retailers sending there customers to my store as well as several big named labs. Pt. will pay $50 to fix there glasses even if there insurance covered the glasses originally. People want stuff done quick most repairs take 5 minutes. But that's not where you make the money. You make money when new customers come in and see your dispensary. And before they leave your the hero. That's what Makes you apatient for life. I convert the family who goes to the huge retailers to our patient on a Dailey basis. Ask your self what would you do to have 10 new customers walk through your door. And if you are already doing repairs and sending them out to someone. Maybe u should email me and I can cut your cost on what you pay for your repair work. I can fix anything I use real titanium ,14&18 k gold. I will warranty my work twice as long as anyone else will. And jewlers equipment was built for jewelry. My Lazer was built for eyewear. I repair stuff for Frame company.'s Pretty High end there suggested retail is $500+. If u need help with anything send me a email. I can give u a list of references. Thanks rhyno73@gmail.com

[Chris Ryser]

Eyeglass Repair is worth doing!!


Chris you were on the right track. You can make repairs a job in itself and there are some stores in Arizona and Texas that have them. But it is a lot of hard work.

I had to treat it like its own business even though I'm in a optical making 40-50 jobs a day. I currently have all the big names retailers sending there customers to my store as well as several big named labs.

I had the feeling that somebody would pop up that was in agreement with the basic idea, or even better. So read it again and then start thinking about it.

Ryan.P.[/URL]]

People want stuff done quick most repairs take 5 minutes. But that's not where you make the money. You make money when new customers come in and see your dispensary. And before they leave your the hero.

That's what Makes you a patient for life. I convert the family who goes to the huge retailers to our patient on a Dailey basis. Ask your self what would you do to have 10 new customers walk through your door.

I just love a positive attitude like this. It looks like the good old ways and tactics from the years past, are still working in our times.

So I went on to the search engines and started to ask the questions.
Google USA had ten (10) eyeglass repair shops in Mesquite Tx (Ryan P's shop) with websites listed on the first page.

Thanks Ryan for making that post.