Morning,
I'm thinking of telling most of the eye plans where to stick it. I'm trying to think of a new pricing structure for my lenses. I'm currently using the lower MSRP for Shamir lenses. and I feel i'm a bit lower on upgrades. I'm thinking (x) on lab price or am I nuts? Keep in mind it will be a no discount price. Also one thing I've seen here is submitting for out of network reimbursements, how do I do that?
Also anyone who has done this can you give me any pointers?
Last edited by Fezz; 05-20-2015 at 11:40 AM. Reason: Pricing removed.
Out of network reimbursements are much lower and sort of a hassle. Just stick with a good self pay pricing structure. I know of a very successful clinic in PHX that is only self pay so its definitely do-able! I think you are smart for going this route and are going to be an early adopter of this trend.
As far as (x) lab prices I think you need to look at you financial statements and make sure you can survive at that markup. It maybe that you have to go more or switch to a different lab that offers more affordable lenses which will get you more profit $. In my area I always advise people to use GSRX...about 50% cheaper than VSP labs, Essilor labs, etc...
Shamir lenses would be reserved for premium sale customer as they are more $$$ and less profit $. I think you would die if you only sold Shamir lenses, although they are great!
Last edited by Fezz; 05-20-2015 at 11:40 AM. Reason: pricing removed
I cleaned up the above two posts a bit. Let us all be mindful of price discussions. This is an open to the public forum. If you want to discuss pricing, I suggest purchasing a paid subscription and joining the Professional forum where this kind of discussion is ok.
Thanks!
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How well do you know your overhead costs? Do you know how much money it takes to keep the doors open regardless of sales? Do you know how many you average a month? If you understand this concept, then I do believe you can survive if you charge X + Overhead + Service fee. This was the way some of the provinces up north in Canada had to price out their product. If you can get a good price/supplier for the Shamir product, then go for it. Most find this approach more successful though using private label brands.
"Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland
We are still an VC provider but are preparing for the day when we are not. It takes time to create a great reputation and a couple of bologna story sandwich's delivered on yelp toast to ruin it. If you have created a reputation based sound advice and solid product, I would do nothing to diminish that. I no longer offer the tiered good, better, and best. I sell what I believe to be the best product for my patients requirements. Don't under value the product that you sell by offering the lowest price, off set that with delivering the best customer service. There are plenty of little things that you can do, that will garner the attention of your customers.
I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain
If you are still considering going for out-of-network reimbursements, then you are still taking the insurances, only getting (in many cases) less for it. Like Eric said, if you are going to go self-pay, then go self pay and realize that the 3rd partiers will be going somewhere else.
Depending on where you are, self pay practices can still be built, but they take much longer. Think of it as a building: If you build a pole barn, there's no foundation, and you can begin using it within days. If you build a conventional barn, with a block foundation, it will take you 3X longer, but will last you long after the structure of the pole barn starts deteriorating.
Remember also that it is going to cost more to market a self pay only practice, because like it or not, third party plans deliver the patients right to your door. Of course, these may not be the patients you want, but nonetheless, they are patients.
We take many 3rd party plans, but have set a minimum profit allowance (MPA) that must be met before we will take them. I don't care if a company builds a plant next door to us; if they've got garbage insurance (garbage is Latin for Davis), then we won't take it. It's cool to be a self pay practice, but it doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach either.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Sorry Fez i slipped there.
Johns, remember when you posted something to the effect of "I take vision care plans because even if I only break even on them, I get a chance to sell them something better"?
That was awesome.
Keep in mind that this type of thinking can also land you in a van down by the river.Originally Posted by drk
Johns, remember when you posted something to the effect of "I take vision care plans because even if I only break even on them, I get a chance to sell them something better"?
That was awesome.
I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain
Erichwmac: I've got the profitability in the costs no problem even on the shamir path. My lab has some amazing freeform progressives for less than I thought possible so if i had to I can use them.
Jubilee: We're less than a year old so we're still finding most of it out. I have a rough idea, but for this it would be a three to five year plan.
Johns:I thought they would pay up front at a reasonable cost, then we submit to their plans and they get the check.
It would be a lot easier for you to offer your clients an itemized statement, that way they can self submit or apply it to their HSA or FSA.
I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain
Paul...I wish you'd just SHUT YOUR BIG YAPPER!
Last edited by drk; 05-21-2015 at 08:52 PM.
We thrive without taking any VCP and we do exactly as stated above. Let the client do the submitting.
This is what I do also. June 1, is one year of zero insurance, and if I can get them in front of me, keep about 70%. The bottom feeding phone calls, "do you take my insurance?" can go elsewhere. Let me elaborate a bit. I don't live in a major city, but we are a small tourist/retirement community. I don't necessarily recommend my path for all. It works for me, but think it thru long and hard as Johns said, lot's of variables.
Hey, leave Fezz out of this!
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
My shop also thrives without taking 3rd party. We just started taking one indie plan, but we've only done 1 job with them and are into our 4th year. We offer to fill out the OON form and do an itemized receipt. People are lazy and will be happier if you offer to do the 3 minutes of work for them. For more details, try the paid forum.
Definitely do the out of network form for them. I even mail it for them. Here's a ZIP of the forms I use for VSP, Superior, Eyemed, and Spectera: https://www.dropbox.com/s/091qnmxak9...forms.zip?dl=0
Give a cash discount, telling them it is a savings off the admin costs of billing insurance.
Also give them a receipt so they can get reimbursement.
Harry
It sounds to me as if he is trying to structure his pricing as such that it is already discounted.
Definitely offer to help fill out OON forms and give itemized receipts.
Doing this in the beginning is a heck of a lot easier than doing it down the road. However as John's warned, it will be a longer build compared to taking all the plans.
I know some labs have pricing on older Shamir lenses that are even competitive with some lab branded pals. Offer a great frame selection, and service that separates you from the rest.. and give it a go!
I wish you luck.
"Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland
It does to me too. Remember the JC Penney debacle a year or so ago? Never forget you are also in retail.
Itemized receipt.
+1
I also hope you succeed! We only take a small amount of insurance, however VSP is one of them so thats a biggie.
We do a LOT of networking with local surgeons and ophthalmologists who want to be able to recommend the best to their patients.
IMHO if you do not allow for the occasional 10-15% discount (for 2nd pairs, Military discounts, Senior discounts, referrals by certain doctors) you are harming your image with many people. Discounts much more than that and you come off as a regular old retail fluffer.
Speaking of the JC Penny debacle.. I just don't get it. Its almost like the American consumer gets a high from a discounted price/sale. Who cares if it ends up costing me more money in the long run, I save 50%!
When I was in wholesale, I had practices that also had this philosophy. "I want a 30% off disc, or no go." Without any additional discounts we are still better on pricing than your current lab. "Sorry, I can't make any deals without a substantial disc." We don't charge for metal, no added delivery fees, no extra charges for prism or cyl til it gets to the point I have to get a specialty blank. In the past month's worth of invoices, we could have saved you $400 in lab fees, after your current volume/prompt payment discount. "Sorry, we get a higher discount from the EOLA lab, so sorry. " Its like they could not comprehend they pay out less money in the end!
I mean.. I shop at Kohls, but really, I don't shop there often enough to use their damn Kohl's cash. If what I want isn't on sale this week, then I just wait another and there it is again. Oh, is my handbag 30, 40, 0r 50% off this week. It really does make me think about us being chumps for the sale. Some of us like just getting to the bottom line, and not jump through all the hoops. Saving 50% off of something that's $100 is great, but if I can get the same exact thing next door for $40 without a sale. I will go next door.
"Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland
Sorry been quite on this.
I do plan to offer the products at prices that are more than fair I'm bouncing the idea of an extra small discount to keep the profits the same, make the bargain hunters happy, and still be where It's fair for all. I'm making a comparison chart to show what people get here vs other places to show how much they really get.
I offer a great discount for any multiple pairs, basically passing on what the lab gives me. and Police, military, EMTs, ect I'll always discount a bit because of what they do, it's just respectful.
Jubilee I was was at a doctors office that fell for the essilor we'll give you a sum up front for free!* (*as long as you use our labs for three years and you lose any and all discounts.) When I pointed out how much was lost the owner almost cried. But hey he got the big sum up front... I agree to many people only look at the discount and not how much they actually buy. Kudos to the labs and stores that prey on this, but it does not sit right with me.
I don't get it personally either, but it helps if we remember most people make purchasing something an emotional decision. Therefore, if it's on sale, it's a happier feeling, and a win. There's not a whole lot of logic to it, but it's true.
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